Stun Guns & Tasers & Pepper Spray, Oh My

Stun Guns & Tasers & Pepper Spray, Oh My (Full Version)

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MercTech -> Stun Guns & Tasers & Pepper Spray, Oh My (4/8/2014 7:26:55 PM)
I've seen a bit of a misconception about non lethal self defense tools and thought I'd toss out some links for clarity. A> A "Taser" fires a projectile. The original used gunpowder and was classed as a firearm by the ATF. Newer models are not classed as firearms. For history & legality see link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taser B> Stun guns are contact weapons. Some, like mine, are the size of a fat pen. C> Pepper spray is not "mace". The concept is diluted by the face that the "Mace" brand also sells pepper spray for the consumer market and still makes the actual tear gas type Mace for law enforcement. Details: http://www.ipiu.org/forums/showthread.php?34762-Pepper-Spray-Laws-Versus-MACE Pepper spray and stun guns are legal by federal law but state and local ordinances are more convoluted. e.g. Illinois requires the same registration requirements for firearms, stun guns, and pepper spray. Overview of stun gun and pepper spray laws by state: http://planetstungun.com/pages/stun-gun-laws _____________________________________________________________ Now for the debating point. Do you think that government should deny, limit, or regulate personal possession of non lethal self defense tools? Assume we are talking adults, please.

kdsub -> RE: Stun Guns & Tasers & Pepper Spray, Oh My (4/8/2014 8:10:29 PM)
Just me but the weapons that can cause permanent harm should be licensed... A taser in the face could do real damage... Stun guns used on the wrong person can kill. I would not make them illegal but would require some type of training with them. I noticed Illinois was one of the states that they were not legal... and that seems a little nuts considering conceal and carry is legal there now. Butch

BamaD -> RE: Stun Guns & Tasers & Pepper Spray, Oh My (4/8/2014 10:49:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MercTech I've seen a bit of a misconception about non lethal self defense tools and thought I'd toss out some links for clarity. A> A "Taser" fires a projectile. The original used gunpowder and was classed as a firearm by the ATF. Newer models are not classed as firearms. For history & legality see link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taser B> Stun guns are contact weapons. Some, like mine, are the size of a fat pen. C> Pepper spray is not "mace". The concept is diluted by the face that the "Mace" brand also sells pepper spray for the consumer market and still makes the actual tear gas type Mace for law enforcement. Details: http://www.ipiu.org/forums/showthread.php?34762-Pepper-Spray-Laws-Versus-MACE Pepper spray and stun guns are legal by federal law but state and local ordinances are more convoluted. e.g. Illinois requires the same registration requirements for firearms, stun guns, and pepper spray. Overview of stun gun and pepper spray laws by state: http://planetstungun.com/pages/stun-gun-laws _____________________________________________________________ Now for the debating point. Do you think that government should deny, limit, or regulate personal possession of non lethal self defense tools? Assume we are talking adults, please. Of course they should be allowed. I think they should have 2nd amendment protection as it does not say firearms but arms. They provide a (hopefully) non lethal option while protecting the right of self defense.

BamaD -> RE: Stun Guns & Tasers & Pepper Spray, Oh My (4/8/2014 11:26:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Just me but the weapons that can cause permanent harm should be licensed... A taser in the face could do real damage... Stun guns used on the wrong person can kill. I would not make them illegal but would require some type of training with them. I noticed Illinois was one of the states that they were not legal... and that seems a little nuts considering conceal and carry is legal there now. Butch A pencil can cause permanent.

BamaD -> RE: Stun Guns & Tasers & Pepper Spray, Oh My (4/8/2014 11:28:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Just me but the weapons that can cause permanent harm should be licensed... A taser in the face could do real damage... Stun guns used on the wrong person can kill. I would not make them illegal but would require some type of training with them. I noticed Illinois was one of the states that they were not legal... and that seems a little nuts considering conceal and carry is legal there now. Butch A pencil can cause permanent damage.

joether -> RE: Stun Guns & Tasers & Pepper Spray, Oh My (4/9/2014 12:04:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: MercTech I've seen a bit of a misconception about non lethal self defense tools and thought I'd toss out some links for clarity. A> A "Taser" fires a projectile. The original used gunpowder and was classed as a firearm by the ATF. Newer models are not classed as firearms. For history & legality see link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taser B> Stun guns are contact weapons. Some, like mine, are the size of a fat pen. C> Pepper spray is not "mace". The concept is diluted by the face that the "Mace" brand also sells pepper spray for the consumer market and still makes the actual tear gas type Mace for law enforcement. Details: http://www.ipiu.org/forums/showthread.php?34762-Pepper-Spray-Laws-Versus-MACE Pepper spray and stun guns are legal by federal law but state and local ordinances are more convoluted. e.g. Illinois requires the same registration requirements for firearms, stun guns, and pepper spray. Overview of stun gun and pepper spray laws by state: http://planetstungun.com/pages/stun-gun-laws _____________________________________________________________ Now for the debating point. Do you think that government should deny, limit, or regulate personal possession of non lethal self defense tools? Assume we are talking adults, please. Of course they should be allowed. I think they should have 2nd amendment protection as it does not say firearms but arms. They provide a (hopefully) non lethal option while protecting the right of self defense. Yeah, because the founding fathers had envision stun guns back in the 18th century..... These are melee-like weapons. Using them correctly is not just a matter of standing in front of a motionless target and zapping it. It requires some self defense training just to effectively use melee weapons. Ever 'sword and board'? A stun gun and pepper spray is the same way. Should stun guns and pepper spray be protected under the 2nd? No. Should someone be required to have a license for them? In so far as those that have previously been in trouble with the law (i.e. already shown to have broken serious laws). I do think it should be required to have 10-20 hours of self defense training, using the item in question.

joether -> RE: Stun Guns & Tasers & Pepper Spray, Oh My (4/9/2014 12:11:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Just me but the weapons that can cause permanent harm should be licensed... A taser in the face could do real damage... Stun guns used on the wrong person can kill. I would not make them illegal but would require some type of training with them. I noticed Illinois was one of the states that they were not legal... and that seems a little nuts considering conceal and carry is legal there now. Butch A pencil can cause permanent damage. Using a pencil as a weapon in some states is considered an improvised (and illegal) weapon.

BamaD -> RE: Stun Guns & Tasers & Pepper Spray, Oh My (4/9/2014 8:43:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Just me but the weapons that can cause permanent harm should be licensed... A taser in the face could do real damage... Stun guns used on the wrong person can kill. I would not make them illegal but would require some type of training with them. I noticed Illinois was one of the states that they were not legal... and that seems a little nuts considering conceal and carry is legal there now. Butch A pencil can cause permanent damage. Using a pencil as a weapon in some states is considered an improvised (and illegal) weapon. Assaulting someone with or without a weapon is illegal in all states. Do you think pencils should be licensed and registered? That was the point I was making.

kdsub -> RE: Stun Guns & Tasers & Pepper Spray, Oh My (4/9/2014 8:49:45 AM)
Ok then... Let's have a duel .... You get the pencil and I get the Taser. We will stand at five paces..... You can even say go. Butch

BamaD -> RE: Stun Guns & Tasers & Pepper Spray, Oh My (4/9/2014 9:28:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Ok then... Let's have a duel .... You get the pencil and I get the Taser. We will stand at five paces..... You can even say go. Butch Lets pretend you would live through it, lets even pretend that you win. Today you could win if I was 10 years younger you would be dead before you moved. Does that mean that a person can't be killed with a pencil. So we are back to my original position if anything that can cause permanent injury should be registered and licensed means everything should be licensed and registered. I have taken 20,000 volts and was still functioning.

thompsonx -> RE: Stun Guns & Tasers & Pepper Spray, Oh My (4/9/2014 10:04:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD if I was 10 years younger You would be a short round target and ten years younger. I have taken 20,000 volts and was still functioning. Everyone loves to play with a tens unit.

BamaD -> RE: Stun Guns & Tasers & Pepper Spray, Oh My (4/9/2014 10:07:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD if I was 10 years younger You would be a short round target and ten years younger. I have taken 20,000 volts and was still functioning. Everyone loves to play with a tens unit. And involved in marshal arts Industrial accedent

Phydeaux -> RE: Stun Guns & Tasers & Pepper Spray, Oh My (4/9/2014 11:20:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Just me but the weapons that can cause permanent harm should be licensed... A taser in the face could do real damage... Stun guns used on the wrong person can kill. I would not make them illegal but would require some type of training with them. I noticed Illinois was one of the states that they were not legal... and that seems a little nuts considering conceal and carry is legal there now. Butch Yes, make everything dangerous require a license. Swimming is dangerous. License! Working a machine shop.. License! Operating a fork lift.. License! Crossing the street.. License! Funny, how even a product designed as a humane form of self defense, requires a license in the liberal mind. Forget the fact that its defensive. Forget the fact thats its engineered to do less damage. Of course its dangerous. Self defense means that there are parameters where someone might get hurt. Whats next? A license to carry a big stick? A license to carry a beer bottle? What the fuck would make you people happy? Padding the world and putting little stickers on everything? Cause that what it would take -because everything in this world can hurt you. How about you take some personal responsibility and learn how to identify and handle things you are reasonably going to face. In other words. If you hurt someone because you picked up a baseball bat, then face your responsibility. And don't ask the world to put little stickers on all the risks of life.

kalikshama -> RE: Stun Guns & Tasers & Pepper Spray, Oh My (4/9/2014 12:41:18 PM)
FR, I've had machine gun, shotgun, and handgun training, but all I own is pepper spray. I've had other training, which is beyond the scope of this thread.

joether -> RE: Stun Guns & Tasers & Pepper Spray, Oh My (4/9/2014 1:39:44 PM)
Its really sort of sad we cant have a decent discussion on a topic like this, without the 'lunatic with guns' making several appearances here. I mean, seriously, the topic is on how we, members of society might handle these devices from a self defense, legal, and common sense points of view. That they have their uses. But they are not as versatile as say, firearms, nor quite as deadly. Yet, they are more useful than many other melee like weapons short of a katana! Do we want crazy people to have these weapons? Of course not! So why do we allow them into the discussion?

BamaD -> RE: Stun Guns & Tasers & Pepper Spray, Oh My (4/9/2014 2:38:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether Its really sort of sad we cant have a decent discussion on a topic like this, without the 'lunatic with guns' making several appearances here. I mean, seriously, the topic is on how we, members of society might handle these devices from a self defense, legal, and common sense points of view. That they have their uses. But they are not as versatile as say, firearms, nor quite as deadly. Yet, they are more useful than many other melee like weapons short of a katana! Do we want crazy people to have these weapons? Of course not! So why do we allow them into the discussion? Why do we allow lunatics against guns to rant against guns when no one else is talking about them.

kdsub -> RE: Stun Guns & Tasers & Pepper Spray, Oh My (4/9/2014 5:48:13 PM)
Will my taser is 50,000... you will not win or stand with a pencil... 10 years younger or not... [:D] ps... i was pretty quick as well...but a bit more than 10 years ago. Butch

kdsub -> RE: Stun Guns & Tasers & Pepper Spray, Oh My (4/9/2014 5:51:16 PM)
Will then with your thinking...why the hell have a licence for anything... Thinking, responsible, reasonable, especially grown up people understand that a dangerous weapon of choice should be regulated if made available to the public. Butch

BamaD -> RE: Stun Guns & Tasers & Pepper Spray, Oh My (4/9/2014 5:51:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Will my taser is 50,000... you will not win or stand with a pencil... 10 years younger or not... [:D] ps... i was pretty quick as well...but a bit more than 10 years ago. Butch Macho posturing aside do you deny that a pencil, or a solid pen can do serious damage? Thus by your reasoning they need to be registered. Along with scissors, steak knives, matches ...............

kdsub -> RE: Stun Guns & Tasers & Pepper Spray, Oh My (4/9/2014 5:56:58 PM)
I am having fun with your ridiculous notion that there is no difference in potential abuse and injury between a pencil and a taser. People wanting to defend themselves will not choose pencils to do it... they will choose a taser or stun gun or a hand gun. All should in my view be available but all should also be regulated and the proper training be provided and graded before the issuing of a licence. Butch

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