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Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living and evolving document?


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[Poll]

Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living and evolving document?


Yes
  52% (10)
No, each new technology needs to be addressed by the supreme court.
  47% (9)
Yes except for the second amendment does not include modern weapons
  0% (0)
Yes, but 4th amendment does not include electronic communications.
  0% (0)


Total Votes : 19
(last vote on : 9/8/2013 12:32:17 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living and... - 9/6/2013 12:19:38 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		In light of the recent news of NSA spying on American citizens by monitoring cell phones and emails, how do you answer this question.

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RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living... - 9/6/2013 2:30:23 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		Unfortunately when it serves a large enough or powerful constituency...it is shit paper.

(in reply to jlf1961)
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RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living... - 9/6/2013 2:53:52 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

In light of the recent news of NSA spying on American citizens by monitoring cell phones and emails, how do you answer this question.

If it means whatever fits at the moment it means nothing.
To the argument that it gets in the way of government getting things done duh that is what it is there for

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to jlf1961)
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RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living... - 9/6/2013 3:31:06 PM   
SubudSC


Posts: 5
Joined: 11/16/2012
Status: offline 		It is not a living document, it is a dead one. Useful for historical purposes only, no longer adhered to.

(in reply to BamaD)
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RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living... - 9/6/2013 4:17:16 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
In light of the recent news of NSA spying on American citizens by monitoring cell phones and emails, how do you answer this question.


Living and evolving? Um, not exactly. The SCOTUS isn't required to make rulings on new technology.

The Constitution includes many ideals that include new technology, without that technology needing to be named.

The right to keep and bear arms. That isn't limited to muskets and revolvers.

Free speech includes email, blogs, etc.

It's the value and ideal, not the exact specifics, and not limited to what they had at that exact date and time.

It can be changed, but it doesn't change simply through the passing of time.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to jlf1961)
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RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living... - 9/6/2013 4:31:37 PM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
The Constitution includes many ideals that include new technology, without that technology needing to be named.

The right to keep and bear arms. That isn't limited to muskets and revolvers.

Free speech includes email, blogs, etc.

It's the value and ideal, not the exact specifics, and not limited to what they had at that exact date and time.

It can be changed, but it doesn't change simply through the passing of time.

What he said.

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RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living... - 9/6/2013 5:15:03 PM   
blacksword404


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

In light of the recent news of NSA spying on American citizens by monitoring cell phones and emails, how do you answer this question.


Our society is based on laws. Laws by their nature have to be concrete. Not flimsy and changeable depending on the mood of the judge.

_____________________________

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(in reply to jlf1961)
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RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living... - 9/6/2013 6:01:40 PM   
DaddySatyr


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Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Living and evolving? Um, not exactly. The SCOTUS isn't required to make rulings on new technology.

The Constitution includes many ideals that include new technology, without that technology needing to be named.

The right to keep and bear arms. That isn't limited to muskets and revolvers.

Free speech includes email, blogs, etc.

It's the value and ideal, not the exact specifics, and not limited to what they had at that exact date and time.

It can be changed, but it doesn't change simply through the passing of time.



quote:



In 1787, there was a sizable block of delegates who were initially opposed to the Bill of Rights. This is what a member of the Georgia delegation had to say by way of opposition; 'If we list a set of rights, some fools in the future are going to claim that people are entitled only to those rights enumerated and no others.



and the government has been trying to do just that almost my entire adult life.

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 9/6/2013 6:02:58 PM >

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RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living... - 9/6/2013 6:14:04 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		Laws are based on mores, which can shift like the sand... witness the temperance movement and prohibition, etc.

On the OP... in some cases the existing legal tests and balances in place are sufficient to deal with newer technology, in other cases they are not. There needs to be a compelling reason to revisit an issue.




quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

In light of the recent news of NSA spying on American citizens by monitoring cell phones and emails, how do you answer this question.


Our society is based on laws. Laws by their nature have to be concrete. Not flimsy and changeable depending on the mood of the judge.


(in reply to blacksword404)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living... - 9/6/2013 8:28:12 PM   
blacksword404


Posts: 2068
Joined: 1/4/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

Laws are based on mores, which can shift like the sand... witness the temperance movement and prohibition, etc.

On the OP... in some cases the existing legal tests and balances in place are sufficient to deal with newer technology, in other cases they are not. There needs to be a compelling reason to revisit an issue.




quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

In light of the recent news of NSA spying on American citizens by monitoring cell phones and emails, how do you answer this question.


Our society is based on laws. Laws by their nature have to be concrete. Not flimsy and changeable depending on the mood of the judge.




The mechanism to change the constitution is there. They are called amendments.

If your idea of a change is a really necessary one then you won't have a problem getting the votes you need to amend it. If its one of those popular fancies then the votes will show that too.


_____________________________

Don't fight him. Embrace your inner asshole.

Tu fellas magnus penum meum...iterum

Genuine catnip/kryptonite.
Ego sum erus.

The capacity to learn is a gift, the ability to learn a skill, the willingness to learn a choice. Dune HH

(in reply to EdBowie)
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RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living... - 9/6/2013 9:09:05 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		No kidding. So why did you just claim the law needs to be unchangeable?

Or is concrete a liquid where you are?


quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404


quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

Laws are based on mores, which can shift like the sand... witness the temperance movement and prohibition, etc.

On the OP... in some cases the existing legal tests and balances in place are sufficient to deal with newer technology, in other cases they are not. There needs to be a compelling reason to revisit an issue.




quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

In light of the recent news of NSA spying on American citizens by monitoring cell phones and emails, how do you answer this question.


Our society is based on laws. Laws by their nature have to be concrete. Not flimsy and changeable depending on the mood of the judge.




The mechanism to change the constitution is there. They are called amendments.

If your idea of a change is a really necessary one then you won't have a problem getting the votes you need to amend it. If its one of those popular fancies then the votes will show that too.



(in reply to blacksword404)
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RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living... - 9/6/2013 9:14:48 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living and evolving document?


Yes in that it can be changed when required and agreed upon. The fact that they are not easy to change is one of the few testaments to the intelligence of those who wrote them.

_____________________________

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
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RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living... - 9/6/2013 11:13:34 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

In light of the recent news of NSA spying on American citizens by monitoring cell phones and emails, how do you answer this question.


Our society is based on laws. Laws by their nature have to be concrete. Not flimsy and changeable depending on the mood of the judge.

Well not only is there jury nullification but at this point in life, if I won one of the big lotteries just as Perot spent his own money ($150 million) to get his name on all states' ballots, I would spend mine on initiating a constitutional convention thus by-passing politicians to tell the courts where they (judges) went wrong.

(in reply to blacksword404)
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RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living... - 9/7/2013 4:29:53 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

Or is concrete a liquid where you are?



It is when it is first poured.

Actually concrete wouldnt be a bad analogy, given its lifespan.

1) A sloppy mix which will hopefully become solid.
2) Hardens into something solid and reliabale.
4) Cracks start to show and needs to be tinkered with.
5) Finally needs to be pulled down and rebuilt for modern usage.

(in reply to EdBowie)
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RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living... - 9/7/2013 4:32:12 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Dang, for some reason, that read really erotic this morning!

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living... - 9/7/2013 4:51:00 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living and evolving document?


Yes in that it can be changed when required and agreed upon. The fact that they are not easy to change is one of the few testaments to the intelligence of those who wrote them.


Good point Tazzy.

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RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living... - 9/7/2013 5:03:45 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		I don't understand the question. The "Constitution" as referred to is not even the original Constitution, but one that has had Amendments. So the original Constitution has been amended and it's a unanimously accepted practice.

The process for adding Amendments is well known and is brilliantly designed to make sure it is not done capriciously and that it is done when public opinion changes and that the proposed Amendments reflect the change.

I believe that Jeff is referring to the unsavory practice of surreptitious practices that flout it.

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living... - 9/7/2013 5:14:01 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Dang, for some reason, that read really erotic this morning!


And my photo isnt ? Hmpfffffff

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RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living... - 9/7/2013 6:00:03 AM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

In light of the recent news of NSA spying on American citizens by monitoring cell phones and emails, how do you answer this question.


I think society is living (although I'm not sure if it's evolving). The Constitution might be considered a living document, but perhaps it might be viewed more as a general guideline and not so much a sacred scripture which must be obeyed to the letter. The founding fathers knew that they weren't going to be around forever, so they figured their posterity would have to figure some things out for their own.


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RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living... - 9/7/2013 5:57:26 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

In light of the recent news of NSA spying on American citizens by monitoring cell phones and emails, how do you answer this question.


I think society is living (although I'm not sure if it's evolving). The Constitution might be considered a living document, but perhaps it might be viewed more as a general guideline and not so much a sacred scripture which must be obeyed to the letter. The founding fathers knew that they weren't going to be around forever, so they figured their posterity would have to figure some things out for their own.



Living document means you can change the meaning without changing the document saves time and avoids all those pesky legalities

As opposed to strict construction which means that it means what it says if you don't like it here is how you change it

< Message edited by BamaD -- 9/7/2013 5:58:56 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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