Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living and evolving document?

Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living and evolving document? (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living and evolving document?

Yes

52% (10)

No, each new technology needs to be addressed by the supreme court.

47% (9)

Yes except for the second amendment does not include modern weapons

0% (0)

Yes, but 4th amendment does not include electronic communications.

0% (0)

Total Votes : 19

(last vote on : 9/8/2013 12:32:17 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

Message

jlf1961 -> Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living and evolving document? (9/6/2013 12:19:38 PM)
In light of the recent news of NSA spying on American citizens by monitoring cell phones and emails, how do you answer this question.

MrRodgers -> RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living and evolving document? (9/6/2013 2:30:23 PM)
Unfortunately when it serves a large enough or powerful constituency...it is shit paper.

BamaD -> RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living and evolving document? (9/6/2013 2:53:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 In light of the recent news of NSA spying on American citizens by monitoring cell phones and emails, how do you answer this question. If it means whatever fits at the moment it means nothing. To the argument that it gets in the way of government getting things done duh that is what it is there for

SubudSC -> RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living and evolving document? (9/6/2013 3:31:06 PM)
It is not a living document, it is a dead one. Useful for historical purposes only, no longer adhered to.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living and evolving document? (9/6/2013 4:17:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 In light of the recent news of NSA spying on American citizens by monitoring cell phones and emails, how do you answer this question. Living and evolving? Um, not exactly. The SCOTUS isn't required to make rulings on new technology. The Constitution includes many ideals that include new technology, without that technology needing to be named. The right to keep and bear arms. That isn't limited to muskets and revolvers. Free speech includes email, blogs, etc. It's the value and ideal, not the exact specifics, and not limited to what they had at that exact date and time. It can be changed, but it doesn't change simply through the passing of time.

JeffBC -> RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living and evolving document? (9/6/2013 4:31:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri The Constitution includes many ideals that include new technology, without that technology needing to be named. The right to keep and bear arms. That isn't limited to muskets and revolvers. Free speech includes email, blogs, etc. It's the value and ideal, not the exact specifics, and not limited to what they had at that exact date and time. It can be changed, but it doesn't change simply through the passing of time. What he said.

blacksword404 -> RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living and evolving document? (9/6/2013 5:15:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 In light of the recent news of NSA spying on American citizens by monitoring cell phones and emails, how do you answer this question. Our society is based on laws. Laws by their nature have to be concrete. Not flimsy and changeable depending on the mood of the judge.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living and evolving document? (9/6/2013 6:01:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Living and evolving? Um, not exactly. The SCOTUS isn't required to make rulings on new technology. The Constitution includes many ideals that include new technology, without that technology needing to be named. The right to keep and bear arms. That isn't limited to muskets and revolvers. Free speech includes email, blogs, etc. It's the value and ideal, not the exact specifics, and not limited to what they had at that exact date and time. It can be changed, but it doesn't change simply through the passing of time. quote: In 1787, there was a sizable block of delegates who were initially opposed to the Bill of Rights. This is what a member of the Georgia delegation had to say by way of opposition; 'If we list a set of rights, some fools in the future are going to claim that people are entitled only to those rights enumerated and no others. and the government has been trying to do just that almost my entire adult life.

EdBowie -> RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living and evolving document? (9/6/2013 6:14:04 PM)
Laws are based on mores, which can shift like the sand... witness the temperance movement and prohibition, etc. On the OP... in some cases the existing legal tests and balances in place are sufficient to deal with newer technology, in other cases they are not. There needs to be a compelling reason to revisit an issue. quote: ORIGINAL: blacksword404 quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 In light of the recent news of NSA spying on American citizens by monitoring cell phones and emails, how do you answer this question. Our society is based on laws. Laws by their nature have to be concrete. Not flimsy and changeable depending on the mood of the judge.

blacksword404 -> RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living and evolving document? (9/6/2013 8:28:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie Laws are based on mores, which can shift like the sand... witness the temperance movement and prohibition, etc. On the OP... in some cases the existing legal tests and balances in place are sufficient to deal with newer technology, in other cases they are not. There needs to be a compelling reason to revisit an issue. quote: ORIGINAL: blacksword404 quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 In light of the recent news of NSA spying on American citizens by monitoring cell phones and emails, how do you answer this question. Our society is based on laws. Laws by their nature have to be concrete. Not flimsy and changeable depending on the mood of the judge. The mechanism to change the constitution is there. They are called amendments. If your idea of a change is a really necessary one then you won't have a problem getting the votes you need to amend it. If its one of those popular fancies then the votes will show that too.

EdBowie -> RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living and evolving document? (9/6/2013 9:09:05 PM)
No kidding. So why did you just claim the law needs to be unchangeable? Or is concrete a liquid where you are? quote: ORIGINAL: blacksword404 quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie Laws are based on mores, which can shift like the sand... witness the temperance movement and prohibition, etc. On the OP... in some cases the existing legal tests and balances in place are sufficient to deal with newer technology, in other cases they are not. There needs to be a compelling reason to revisit an issue. quote: ORIGINAL: blacksword404 quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 In light of the recent news of NSA spying on American citizens by monitoring cell phones and emails, how do you answer this question. Our society is based on laws. Laws by their nature have to be concrete. Not flimsy and changeable depending on the mood of the judge. The mechanism to change the constitution is there. They are called amendments. If your idea of a change is a really necessary one then you won't have a problem getting the votes you need to amend it. If its one of those popular fancies then the votes will show that too.

tazzygirl -> RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living and evolving document? (9/6/2013 9:14:48 PM)
quote: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living and evolving document? Yes in that it can be changed when required and agreed upon. The fact that they are not easy to change is one of the few testaments to the intelligence of those who wrote them.

MrRodgers -> RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living and evolving document? (9/6/2013 11:13:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blacksword404 quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 In light of the recent news of NSA spying on American citizens by monitoring cell phones and emails, how do you answer this question. Our society is based on laws. Laws by their nature have to be concrete. Not flimsy and changeable depending on the mood of the judge. Well not only is there jury nullification but at this point in life, if I won one of the big lotteries just as Perot spent his own money ($150 million) to get his name on all states' ballots, I would spend mine on initiating a constitutional convention thus by-passing politicians to tell the courts where they (judges) went wrong.

Politesub53 -> RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living and evolving document? (9/7/2013 4:29:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie Or is concrete a liquid where you are? It is when it is first poured. [8D] Actually concrete wouldnt be a bad analogy, given its lifespan. 1) A sloppy mix which will hopefully become solid. 2) Hardens into something solid and reliabale. 4) Cracks start to show and needs to be tinkered with. 5) Finally needs to be pulled down and rebuilt for modern usage.

tazzygirl -> RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living and evolving document? (9/7/2013 4:32:12 AM)
Dang, for some reason, that read really erotic this morning!

Politesub53 -> RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living and evolving document? (9/7/2013 4:51:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living and evolving document? Yes in that it can be changed when required and agreed upon. The fact that they are not easy to change is one of the few testaments to the intelligence of those who wrote them. Good point Tazzy.

DarkSteven -> RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living and evolving document? (9/7/2013 5:03:45 AM)
I don't understand the question. The "Constitution" as referred to is not even the original Constitution, but one that has had Amendments. So the original Constitution has been amended and it's a unanimously accepted practice. The process for adding Amendments is well known and is brilliantly designed to make sure it is not done capriciously and that it is done when public opinion changes and that the proposed Amendments reflect the change. I believe that Jeff is referring to the unsavory practice of surreptitious practices that flout it.

Politesub53 -> RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living and evolving document? (9/7/2013 5:14:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Dang, for some reason, that read really erotic this morning! And my photo isnt ? Hmpfffffff

Zonie63 -> RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living and evolving document? (9/7/2013 6:00:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 In light of the recent news of NSA spying on American citizens by monitoring cell phones and emails, how do you answer this question. I think society is living (although I'm not sure if it's evolving). The Constitution might be considered a living document, but perhaps it might be viewed more as a general guideline and not so much a sacred scripture which must be obeyed to the letter. The founding fathers knew that they weren't going to be around forever, so they figured their posterity would have to figure some things out for their own.

BamaD -> RE: Is the US Constitution and bill of rights an living and evolving document? (9/7/2013 5:57:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zonie63 quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 In light of the recent news of NSA spying on American citizens by monitoring cell phones and emails, how do you answer this question. I think society is living (although I'm not sure if it's evolving). The Constitution might be considered a living document, but perhaps it might be viewed more as a general guideline and not so much a sacred scripture which must be obeyed to the letter. The founding fathers knew that they weren't going to be around forever, so they figured their posterity would have to figure some things out for their own. Living document means you can change the meaning without changing the document saves time and avoids all those pesky legalities As opposed to strict construction which means that it means what it says if you don't like it here is how you change it

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