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Personal incomes still falling - 8/23/2013 10:55:04 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline 		Four years after the end of the recession, personal incomes are still falling.
You know things are bad for democrats when even the democratic shills (aka latimes) is acknowledging a problem.

http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-household-income-dropped-20130822,0,5106196.story

Yep. Truly weird that you cannot "make investments" (obamas favorite term but which the rest of us just call tax and spend) your way to prosperity.

Of course - I'm waiting for the chorus that its all the republicans fault. Its all bushes fault.
Five years after bush is no longer here... when will you lefties, perhaps, get the idea that maybe, just maybe

Its all democrats fault.

I may be wrong (I'm not) - but I don't think there has ever been another recession since that great depression that our household incomes were still falling 5 years after the recession was over.

Ever.

Disastrous foreign policy. Disastrous economic policy. But man can he take vacations.
But hell.. I would be happy if he took vacations the rest of his term. *That* we can afford.



< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 8/23/2013 10:58:49 PM >
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Personal incomes still falling - 8/24/2013 1:30:39 AM   
DaNewAgeViking


Posts: 1009
Joined: 4/29/2004
Status: offline 		I don't suppose you considered that the Bush Disaster was so horrendous that it took this long before any signs of recovery, however faint, have appeared? Or how about the Rightie fanatics in congress who persistently keep the administration from doing anything, good, bad or indifferent? Or how about the 1%ers who continue to drive down wages and benefits while raking in obscene profits and personal bonuses? Oh - and there's those bankers... It's not like the Democrats haven't tried - so the chorus sings.

Let go of your hate, Darth.


< Message edited by DaNewAgeViking -- 8/24/2013 1:32:03 AM >

(in reply to Phydeaux)
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RE: Personal incomes still falling - 8/24/2013 2:27:29 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux



I may be wrong (I'm not) - but I don't think there has ever been another recession since that great depression that our household incomes were still falling 5 years after the recession was over.


LOL you are wrong, the recession ended june 2009 which is 4 years not five years ago, and if YOU cant do math, what chance is there for the rest of us????

The fallout of the recession will go on for a lot longer, especially with repubs in congress, after all, what are they doing but cutting programs left right and center?

ANd what if the repubs close government down in the fall, you gonna say we are blaming bush???
I think its time you guys took the tiniest shred of responsibility for the clusterfuck.
How come you arent blaming the dems for the repubs threatening to shut down unless obamacare is defunded or again when the debt limit rolls around?????
or is that delight waiting in the wings?

But I have more chance of finding a unicorn married to a dodo

At least be honest, if you can be wrong *which you blatantly showed you have been* about how many years its been since the recession ended, try to be honest and give knowledge that republicans have been somewhat instrumental in it?

It willbe ur shining moment amongst the dross you are now posting


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RE: Personal incomes still falling - 8/24/2013 3:31:05 AM   
SadistDave


Posts: 801
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		I have to agree with Lucy actually, in one regard. If the Republicans would take responsibility instead of kowtowing to the Democrats on so many issues, we would be far better off. This notion of trying to appease them for political purposes is clearly not working.

Although, if the Republicans fund everything except Obamacare, (which is the current plan under consideration) and Obummer&Co. throw a hissy fit and vote to shut the entire government down, it would in fact be a shut down caused by the Democrats. However, I don't see that as a huge issue. I don't particularly see shutting down an out of control government as a bad thing no matter who initiates it. It would be one of the few things the Dems have done right.

As for the rest... After almost 5 years in office, Oblamer really does need to accept the fact that this is his piss poor economy. The recovery is a joke, and the only possible way it could be worse would be if the the economy had been a priority when the libs controlled all 3 branches of government. It's becoming more obvious every day how much they've fucked up our health care system when that was their priority. The Unaffordable Care Act has exacerbated the country's economic problems and that little gem belongs to the libs lock, stock, and barrel.

-SD-

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RE: Personal incomes still falling - 8/24/2013 4:33:40 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaNewAgeViking
I don't suppose you considered that the Bush Disaster was so horrendous that it took this long before any signs of recovery, however faint, have appeared? Or how about the Rightie fanatics in congress who persistently keep the administration from doing anything, good, bad or indifferent? Or how about the 1%ers who continue to drive down wages and benefits while raking in obscene profits and personal bonuses? Oh - and there's those bankers... It's not like the Democrats haven't tried - so the chorus sings.
Let go of your hate, Darth.


The disaster was incredibly horrendous. It wasn't caused by Bush and Republicans. It was caused by Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, Democrats and Republicans. Oh, and horrible Federal Reserve manipulations. Terrible financial choices were made by citizens, companies, mortgagers, mortgagees, Wall Street, and government. Instead of watching for red flags, our Federal regulators were looking at porn. The Federal Reserve should have slammed on the brakes, but didn't. This was a clusterfuck of epic proportions. Fannie and Freddie (which Obama now wants to end and Bush wanted to end a decade ago) reduced the risks for mortgage writers on the backs of taxpayers.

Some financial companies bet against the products they were selling without disclosing that to the buyers. Big Bankers took huge risks. "Too big to fail" became a buzzword which simply meant that the biggest companies (some of whom were complicit in the bubble) wouldn't fail, but actually get bigger as those companies who weren't "too big to fail" got bought up or otherwise absorbed into those who were "too big to fail."

Bush left his conservative credentials at the door when he bailed out Bear Stearns in the Spring of '08. Don't forget that Democrats in the House and Senate went along with him on those; not that Republicans were balking, but they are already being blamed. Instead of letting the Market dictate winners and losers, reward winners and punish losers, the Federal Government decided who was going to win and who was going to lose (started by Bush and continued by Obama).

But, by all means, this was just Bush's and the Republicans's faults, right?


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  • Personal Responsibility
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RE: Personal incomes still falling - 8/24/2013 5:11:45 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline 		Republicans? Take responsibility? At a national level?

This is a joke right? If conservatives were to hold Republicans to the same level as they slam the President and Democrats on an hourly basis, the whole lot of 'em would be voted out of office! Its become a basic fact: Conservatives can not hold Republicans to any level of responsibility or accountability with power.

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RE: Personal incomes still falling - 8/24/2013 5:34:56 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
I may be wrong (I'm not) - but I don't think there has ever been another recession since that great depression that our household incomes were still falling 5 years after the recession was over.

Ever.

Except for the one that W over saw less than a decade ago.
http://swampland.time.com/2013/02/04/the-most-important-chart-in-american-politics/
http://ndn.org/blog/2010/04/department-facts-real-median-household-income





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by DomKen -- 8/24/2013 5:35:08 AM >

(in reply to Phydeaux)
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RE: Personal incomes still falling - 8/24/2013 6:10:58 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		2008?

How Odd they would stop there!

BEFORE the "GREAT" recession!

Thats a not so GREAT depression!


< Message edited by Real0ne -- 8/24/2013 6:13:03 AM >

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RE: Personal incomes still falling - 8/24/2013 7:04:13 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
Republicans? Take responsibility? At a national level?
This is a joke right? If conservatives were to hold Republicans to the same level as they slam the President and Democrats on an hourly basis, the whole lot of 'em would be voted out of office! Its become a basic fact: Conservatives can not hold Republicans to any level of responsibility or accountability with power.


LMAO! Did you not read my post?!?

The Democrats have done nothing but blame Bush and the Republicans. They have completely ignored their own complicity. Both parties are party to the set up and failure of the economy.

But, it's just the Republicans, right?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Personal incomes still falling - 8/24/2013 8:27:10 AM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
Of course - I'm waiting for the chorus that its all the republicans fault. Its all bushes fault.
Five years after bush is no longer here... when will you lefties, perhaps, get the idea that maybe, just maybe

Its all democrats fault.


I would say both parties are at fault, but neither one of them would ever admit it.

One might try to argue that one or the other party is more to blame for our current economic woes, although it's still hard to pin down since we're experiencing the results of decades of mismanagement, corruption, and failed policies. It can't just be blamed on a single president or party, since it was a bipartisan group effort.

To be honest, I don't really care whose fault it is. That is, I'm not so concerned with who did it as much as what they did to screw things up.

I also don't think that the government is entirely responsible for the economy or the general state of affairs in the country. Sure, the politicians just tell the people they want to hear, but they want to get elected so that's what they do. But it's also the people's fault for wanting to hear it. A politician who tells the truth has no chance of getting elected. What the people seem to want is a wizard, someone who can magically transform the economy - while the people themselves can sit back and be dazzled.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
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RE: Personal incomes still falling - 8/24/2013 8:41:41 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

I have to agree with Lucy actually, in one regard. If the Republicans would take responsibility instead of kowtowing to the Democrats on so many issues, we would be far better off. This notion of trying to appease them for political purposes is clearly not working.


When the fuck have the Republicans done that since 2009? They've been even more obstructionist to the Kenyan than they were to Carter and Clinton put together...

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RE: Personal incomes still falling - 8/24/2013 8:52:51 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		I thought he had jumped the shark when he said he had to agree with me..glad im not the only one to think it:)

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RE: Personal incomes still falling - 8/24/2013 9:01:42 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Well quite.


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Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Personal incomes still falling - 8/24/2013 9:10:53 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline

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RE: Personal incomes still falling - 8/24/2013 1:02:19 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
I may be wrong (I'm not) - but I don't think there has ever been another recession since that great depression that our household incomes were still falling 5 years after the recession was over.

Ever.

Except for the one that W over saw less than a decade ago.
http://swampland.time.com/2013/02/04/the-most-important-chart-in-american-politics/
http://ndn.org/blog/2010/04/department-facts-real-median-household-income







HAHAHAHAHAHAH...... what a hoot.
Directly quoting the New Democrat Network as a news source. The leader of which split from the Democrat Leader Ship Council.

Here, lets get you some real facts:

The recession you alluded to was from March 2001 - Nov 2001. Lets even use *your* little graph. Five years after Nov 2001 is Nov 2006. And if you look at your graph, incomes are rising. Even if you use *4* years - Nov 2005 - incomes are STILL rising. Well what about *3* years. Why.. yes.. in november 2004 incomes are, once again: rising.

So Epic fail.

As I said, I don't believe there has been another recession ( I really should have said president) where incomes are still falling 5 years after the recession is ended.

Lucylu: here's a news flash for you. I'm aware its not quite five years. But sadly median income is going to keep fallinng. It is virtually guaranteed as employers continue to replace full time employees for part time employees because of Obamacare.

And of course because of the huge negative impact democrats have on job growth stemming from things like opposition to pipelines; opposition to fracking; public unions and cities going bankrupt; epa mandates to increase energy cost by eliminating coal power.. the list goes on and on.

I'm still snickering with you quoting the democrat party. Ah yes. All is well!



(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Personal incomes still falling - 8/24/2013 1:19:08 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
I may be wrong (I'm not) - but I don't think there has ever been another recession since that great depression that our household incomes were still falling 5 years after the recession was over.

Ever.

Except for the one that W over saw less than a decade ago.
http://swampland.time.com/2013/02/04/the-most-important-chart-in-american-politics/
http://ndn.org/blog/2010/04/department-facts-real-median-household-income







HAHAHAHAHAHAH...... what a hoot.
Directly quoting the New Democrat Network as a news source. The leader of which split from the Democrat Leader Ship Council.

Here, lets get you some real facts:

The recession you alluded to was from March 2001 - Nov 2001. Lets even use *your* little graph. Five years after Nov 2001 is Nov 2006. And if you look at your graph, incomes are rising. Even if you use *4* years - Nov 2005 - incomes are STILL rising. Well what about *3* years. Why.. yes.. in november 2004 incomes are, once again: rising.

So Epic fail.

As I said, I don't believe there has been another recession ( I really should have said president) where incomes are still falling 5 years after the recession is ended.

Lucylu: here's a news flash for you. I'm aware its not quite five years. But sadly median income is going to keep fallinng. It is virtually guaranteed as employers continue to replace full time employees for part time employees because of Obamacare.

And of course because of the huge negative impact democrats have on job growth stemming from things like opposition to pipelines; opposition to fracking; public unions and cities going bankrupt; epa mandates to increase energy cost by eliminating coal power.. the list goes on and on.

I'm still snickering with you quoting the democrat party. Ah yes. All is well!

I presented multiple sources and just used the best graph I could find.
As to your mangling of reality, every part of that graph in red is below the peak household income before the recession which is what the claim you mangled so badly from the right wing echo chamber was.
Here is one story on the original source
http://realtormag.realtor.org/daily-news/2013/08/22/household-incomes-improving-still-way-down

< Message edited by DomKen -- 8/24/2013 1:41:18 PM >

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Personal incomes still falling - 8/24/2013 1:21:21 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
Republicans? Take responsibility? At a national level?
This is a joke right? If conservatives were to hold Republicans to the same level as they slam the President and Democrats on an hourly basis, the whole lot of 'em would be voted out of office! Its become a basic fact: Conservatives can not hold Republicans to any level of responsibility or accountability with power.


LMAO! Did you not read my post?!?

The Democrats have done nothing but blame Bush and the Republicans. They have completely ignored their own complicity. Both parties are party to the set up and failure of the economy.

But, it's just the Republicans, right?




the kool thing though is that it keeps the factins fighting with each other rather then realize the government at large is the problem not the solution.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Personal incomes still falling - 8/24/2013 1:24:31 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		hahahhahahhahahahhahahah more dross, and obfuscating
nice one I will be ur constant itch.... you amuse me daddyo.
cleaning up after the pipelines will keep thousands employed, and so will the fracking, poisonings, explosions, mine collapses, worker deaths, killem off, replace em with the unemployed and the working poor, by cutting their programs, yay republicans
Its got fuck all to do with Obama care, because corporations big and small business world wide are being extra greedy and using it as a convenient excuse in the US.
I dont doubt the median will fall more....
and the same fuckwads will still blame anyone but themselves

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Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Personal incomes still falling - 8/24/2013 2:16:25 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
I may be wrong (I'm not) - but I don't think there has ever been another recession since that great depression that our household incomes were still falling 5 years after the recession was over.

Ever.

Except for the one that W over saw less than a decade ago.
http://swampland.time.com/2013/02/04/the-most-important-chart-in-american-politics/
http://ndn.org/blog/2010/04/department-facts-real-median-household-income







HAHAHAHAHAHAH...... what a hoot.
Directly quoting the New Democrat Network as a news source. The leader of which split from the Democrat Leader Ship Council.

Here, lets get you some real facts:

The recession you alluded to was from March 2001 - Nov 2001. Lets even use *your* little graph. Five years after Nov 2001 is Nov 2006. And if you look at your graph, incomes are rising. Even if you use *4* years - Nov 2005 - incomes are STILL rising. Well what about *3* years. Why.. yes.. in november 2004 incomes are, once again: rising.

So Epic fail.

As I said, I don't believe there has been another recession ( I really should have said president) where incomes are still falling 5 years after the recession is ended.

Lucylu: here's a news flash for you. I'm aware its not quite five years. But sadly median income is going to keep fallinng. It is virtually guaranteed as employers continue to replace full time employees for part time employees because of Obamacare.

And of course because of the huge negative impact democrats have on job growth stemming from things like opposition to pipelines; opposition to fracking; public unions and cities going bankrupt; epa mandates to increase energy cost by eliminating coal power.. the list goes on and on.

I'm still snickering with you quoting the democrat party. Ah yes. All is well!

I presented multiple sources and just used the best graph I could find.
As to your mangling of reality, every part of that graph in red is below the peak household income before the recession which is what the claim you mangled so badly from the right wing echo chamber was.
Here is one story on the original source
http://realtormag.realtor.org/daily-news/2013/08/22/household-incomes-improving-still-way-down



Which of course has NOTHING to do with anything I said.

Which was FIVE YEARS after the recession ended Median incomes are STILL FALLING.

Or to put it another way - five years in which obama promised to make the economy better.. its still getting worse for people. Now fat cats are doing well. Rank and file.. not so much.

Fail on GDP
Fail on Median Income
Fail on % employed
Fail on.. well hell.. everything? Well I guess you can argue the stock market and the banks are doing well.

I guess you can therefor argue that democrats: banks>>people.


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Personal incomes still falling - 8/24/2013 2:19:51 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

hahahhahahhahahahhahahah more dross, and obfuscating
nice one I will be ur constant itch.... you amuse me daddyo.
cleaning up after the pipelines will keep thousands employed, and so will the fracking, poisonings, explosions, mine collapses, worker deaths, killem off, replace em with the unemployed and the working poor, by cutting their programs, yay republicans
Its got fuck all to do with Obama care, because corporations big and small business world wide are being extra greedy and using it as a convenient excuse in the US.
I dont doubt the median will fall more....
and the same fuckwads will still blame anyone but themselves



Snicker .. what world do you live in .. seriously. Have you read the jobs reports? Either the one from the govt or the one from ADP?

Net loss of jobs - obscured by a huge influx of part time work.
You're entitled to your own opinion - but like factless Ken - when it has no substantiating data its pretty worthless.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 20
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