RE: Issa Lied about IRS targets???? (Full Version)

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DomKen -> RE: Issa Lied about IRS targets???? (8/22/2013 6:39:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
We already know Issa lied about this scandal from the beginning. He was the one who requested the IRS IG to report on the treatment of tea party groups despite knowing there were other BOLO lists.


So, Issa was the only person to get data from the IRS?!? The House Committee didn't investigate as a committee or sub-committee? How was it no Democrats were able to get their hands or eyes on anything at all? How is it that no Democrats were able to request anything from the IRS?

Issa specifically requested the IRS IG report on the treatment of conservative groups seeking 501(c)4 status. Not for how the IRS handled such applications from political groups or how 501(c)4 applications were handled in general.

Now look at the IRS IG, J. Russell George. His resume includes a 7 year tenure, 1995 to 2002, as a senior Republican staffer on the House Committee on Government Reform and Oversight and was appointed to the IG post by W. Darrell Issa was elected in 2000 and joined the Committee on Government Reform and Oversight in 2001 when he took office.

Now since it is well known that Issa is a hyper partisan liar who wants nothing more than to bring down a Democratic President it is obvious that he concocted this whole thing with his former associate J Russell George.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Issa Lied about IRS targets???? (8/22/2013 6:43:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
We already know Issa lied about this scandal from the beginning. He was the one who requested the IRS IG to report on the treatment of tea party groups despite knowing there were other BOLO lists.

So, Issa was the only person to get data from the IRS?!? The House Committee didn't investigate as a committee or sub-committee? How was it no Democrats were able to get their hands or eyes on anything at all? How is it that no Democrats were able to request anything from the IRS?

Issa specifically requested the IRS IG report on the treatment of conservative groups seeking 501(c)4 status. Not for how the IRS handled such applications from political groups or how 501(c)4 applications were handled in general.
Now look at the IRS IG, J. Russell George. His resume includes a 7 year tenure, 1995 to 2002, as a senior Republican staffer on the House Committee on Government Reform and Oversight and was appointed to the IG post by W. Darrell Issa was elected in 2000 and joined the Committee on Government Reform and Oversight in 2001 when he took office.
Now since it is well known that Issa is a hyper partisan liar who wants nothing more than to bring down a Democratic President it is obvious that he concocted this whole thing with his former associate J Russell George.


Right. [8|]

Any proof that Issa was behind Lois Lerner's admissions that started the whole ball of shit rolling?




DomKen -> RE: Issa Lied about IRS targets???? (8/22/2013 6:49:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
We already know Issa lied about this scandal from the beginning. He was the one who requested the IRS IG to report on the treatment of tea party groups despite knowing there were other BOLO lists.

So, Issa was the only person to get data from the IRS?!? The House Committee didn't investigate as a committee or sub-committee? How was it no Democrats were able to get their hands or eyes on anything at all? How is it that no Democrats were able to request anything from the IRS?

Issa specifically requested the IRS IG report on the treatment of conservative groups seeking 501(c)4 status. Not for how the IRS handled such applications from political groups or how 501(c)4 applications were handled in general.
Now look at the IRS IG, J. Russell George. His resume includes a 7 year tenure, 1995 to 2002, as a senior Republican staffer on the House Committee on Government Reform and Oversight and was appointed to the IG post by W. Darrell Issa was elected in 2000 and joined the Committee on Government Reform and Oversight in 2001 when he took office.
Now since it is well known that Issa is a hyper partisan liar who wants nothing more than to bring down a Democratic President it is obvious that he concocted this whole thing with his former associate J Russell George.


Right. [8|]

Any proof that Issa was behind Lois Lerner's admissions that started the whole ball of shit rolling?


The IRS IG is what started the whole thing. He issued the report that was finally publicly released without redactions the op referenced. The hearings involving Lerner was the result of the IG report.




Lucylastic -> RE: Issa Lied about IRS targets???? (8/22/2013 6:57:58 AM)

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/06/proof-the-irs-didnt-target-just-conservatives/276536/

http://democrats.oversight.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5965:new-documents-highlight-irs-scrutiny-of-progressive-groups&catid=3:press-releases&Itemid=49

Rep. Levin: “Once again it is clear that the Inspector General's report left out critical information that skewed the audit's findings and set the stage for Republicans to make completely baseless accusations in an effort to tarnish the White House. These new documents make it clear the IRS scrutiny of the political activity of 501(c)(4) organizations covered a broad spectrum of political ideology and was not politically motivated. Republicans should stop trying to twist the facts to fit a faulty "enemies list" narrative and instead join in the effort to fix the mismanagement problems at the IRS tax-exempt division as I have called for since day one.”


"Rep. Cummings: “This new information should put a nail in the coffin of the Republican claims that the IRS's actions were politically motivated or were targeted at only one side of the political spectrum. It is time for House Republicans to stop trying to score political points and start to focus on reforming the IRS.”
They do show attempts to cover up"


http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/09/18864636-issa-rejects-colleagues-claim-that-irs-case-is-solved?lite
Rep. Darrell Issa, the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Chairman and frequent White House detractor, slammed comments made by Rep. Elijah Cummings Sunday that the case of allegedly unwarranted investigations of conservative activist groups has been "solved."
"I strongly disagree with Ranking Member Cummings’ assertion that we know everything we need to know about inappropriate targeting of Tea Party groups by the IRS,” Issa (R-Calif.) said in a statement released Sunday after Cummings (D-Maryland) appeared on CNN.
"His extreme and reckless assertions are a signal that his true motivation is stopping needed Congressional oversight and he has no genuine interest in working, on a bipartisan basis, to expose the full truth," Issa's statement read.
Cummings had earlier appeared on CNN’s “State of the Union” and claimed that the "conservative Republican" manager of Cincinnati-based IRS screeners responsible for 501(c)(4) probes told congressional investigators that there was no evidence the Obama administration had a role in the agency’s alleged targeting of Tea Party groups.
The claims run counter to allegations made by many leading Republicans that the IRS took orders from political operatives associated with Obama’s re-election campaign.
"He is a conservative Republican working for the IRS," Cummings said of the unidentified manager. "I think this interview and these statements go a long way to showing that the White House was not involved in this."
What’s more, Cummings said the investigation completed by the House Oversight Committee showed that there was no need to extend a federal probe.
"Based upon everything I've seen, the case is solved,” Cummings said. "If it were me, I would wrap this case up and move on."
Issa disputed Cummings' claims in his statement, saying that the "American public wants to know why targeting occurred and who was involved" and that Cummings’ account "did not provide anything enlightening or contradict other witness accounts."
"The only thing Ranking Member Cummings left clear in his comments today is that if it were up to him the investigation would be closed," Issa said. "Fortunately, the decision to close the investigation is not his to make."
Issa added that he intends to continue to work with the House Ways and Means Committee Chairman, Rep. Dave Camp (R-Mich.), on a "fact based investigation that fully exposes all relevant facts about IRS efforts to target Americans for their political beliefs."




Lucylastic -> RE: Issa Lied about IRS targets???? (8/22/2013 7:47:10 AM)

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2378763000001/rep-issa-on-irs-profiling/

If you dont wanna go thru the whole thing, watch the first minute or so, then skip to oh about 2.40




DesideriScuri -> RE: Issa Lied about IRS targets???? (8/22/2013 7:53:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
We already know Issa lied about this scandal from the beginning. He was the one who requested the IRS IG to report on the treatment of tea party groups despite knowing there were other BOLO lists.

So, Issa was the only person to get data from the IRS?!? The House Committee didn't investigate as a committee or sub-committee? How was it no Democrats were able to get their hands or eyes on anything at all? How is it that no Democrats were able to request anything from the IRS?

Issa specifically requested the IRS IG report on the treatment of conservative groups seeking 501(c)4 status. Not for how the IRS handled such applications from political groups or how 501(c)4 applications were handled in general.
Now look at the IRS IG, J. Russell George. His resume includes a 7 year tenure, 1995 to 2002, as a senior Republican staffer on the House Committee on Government Reform and Oversight and was appointed to the IG post by W. Darrell Issa was elected in 2000 and joined the Committee on Government Reform and Oversight in 2001 when he took office.
Now since it is well known that Issa is a hyper partisan liar who wants nothing more than to bring down a Democratic President it is obvious that he concocted this whole thing with his former associate J Russell George.

Right. [8|]
Any proof that Issa was behind Lois Lerner's admissions that started the whole ball of shit rolling?

The IRS IG is what started the whole thing. He issued the report that was finally publicly released without redactions the op referenced. The hearings involving Lerner was the result of the IG report.


Here's an interesting take :
    quote:

    On January 21, 2010, the U.S. Supreme Court decided Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, which overturned many previous restrictions on political campaign spending and allowed nearly unlimited and often anonymous spending by corporations and other groups to influence elections.[21][22][23] Some Tea Party leaders began forming political action committees as offshoots of their 501(c)-tax-exempt organizations.[24][25][26] By late September 2010, tax-exempt non-profit groups had spent in excess of $100 million on the mid-term elections, more than double the expenditure from a similar point in the election cycle four years earlier.[23]
    Public-interest advocacy groups such as Public Citizen and Democracy 21 complained that the IRS and Federal Election Commission were failing to provide adequate oversight for 501(c) nonprofit organizations that were pouring money into political campaigns.[23][27][28] As the New York Times reported at the time:
    Almost all of the biggest players among third-party groups, in terms of buying television time in House and Senate races since August, have been 501(c) organizations, and their purchases have heavily favored Republicans.... They include 501(c)(4) “social welfare” organizations, like Crossroads, which has been the top spender on Senate races, and Americans for Prosperity, another pro-Republican group that has been the leader on the House side; 501(c)(5) labor unions, which have been supporting Democrats; and 501(c)(6) trade associations, like the United States Chamber of Commerce, which has been spending heavily in support of Republicans.[27]
    Shortly thereafter, Senator Max Baucus, Democratic chair of the Senate Finance Committee, referring to the New York Times' and other media reports, asked the IRS to investigate to ensure that nonprofit organizations engaged in political activity were complying with IRS rules and not abusing their tax-exempt status.[29][30] Republican senators on the finance committee Orrin Hatch and John Kyl responded to Baucus' request by writing to the IRS that they were worried this kind of investigation would violate First Amendment rights, and they asked that a Treasury Department inspector general conduct a review of any such investigation to ensure its impartiality.[31][32]
    Senate[33] and House[34] Democrats in early 2012 continued to press the IRS to investigate abuses of 501(c)(4) tax-exempt status by organizations engaged in political activity. In a February 2012 letter to then-IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman, several Democratic senators led by Senator Chuck Schumer wrote, "We urge you to protect legitimate section 501(c)(4) entities by preventing non-conforming organizations that are focused on federal election activities from abusing the tax code."[35] The senators also urged the IRS to issue new rules to prevent this type of abuse.[36] In a follow-up letter sent in March 2012, the senators asked the IRS to clearly define the amount of political activity that is permissible for "social welfare" groups under 501(c)(4) rules, to require the groups to document in their IRS filings the exact percentage of their activity that is dedicated to "social welfare," and to require the groups to notify their donors of what percentage of donations could be claimed for tax deductions. The senators promised to introduce legislation to accomplish these aims if the IRS did not do so itself by promptly issuing new administrative rules.[33][37] None of these letters called for the targeting of groups on the basis of political ideology.[35]
    Between 2010 and 2012, the number of applications the IRS received each year seeking 501(c)(4) certification doubled.[38] During this period, budget cuts and personnel cuts reduced the IRS's ability to adequately perform its core duties.[39] When the Obama administration requested in 2011 that Congress increase the IRS's $12.1 billion budget by $1 billion to allow the agency to hire 5,100 additional agents, Congress instead reduced the IRS budget to $11.8 billion, and the IRS offered buyouts to 5,400 of its 95,000 employees.[39] The U.S. National Taxpayer Advocate, Nina E. Olson, told the New York Times in January 2012, "The overriding challenge facing the I.R.S. is that its workload has grown significantly in recent years, while its funding is being cut.... This is causing the I.R.S. to resort to shortcuts that undermine fundamental taxpayer rights and harm taxpayers — and at the same time reduces the I.R.S.’s ability to deliver on its core mission of raising revenue."[39]

    ...

    On May 12, Republican and Democratic lawmakers called for a full investigation of the Internal Revenue Service,[82][83] while White House Press Secretary Jay Carney called the IRS's alleged actions "inappropriate."[84] On May 13, the Washington Post reported that Marcus Owens, head of the IRS department examining tax-exempt groups in 1990-1999, said that the IRS routinely categorized similar groups which sought the status of social welfare organizations.[85] At a May 13 press conference, President Obama called the charges "outrageous" if true, and said that anyone found to be responsible for such actions should be held accountable.[86][87]
    On May 14, the Inspector General's [Michael E. McKenney, Acting Deputy Inspector General for Audit, not Russell George, btw] audit report was made public.[14] President Obama released a statement saying that "The IRS must apply the law in a fair and impartial way, and its employees must act with utmost integrity. This report shows that some of its employees failed that test. I’ve directed Secretary Lew to hold those responsible for these failures accountable, and to make sure that each of the Inspector General’s recommendations are implemented quickly, so that such conduct never happens again. But regardless of how this conduct was allowed to take place, the bottom line is, it was wrong."[88] Attorney General Eric Holder announced that he had ordered the Justice Department to begin an investigation into whether the activities amounted to criminal behavior.[89]


Republican lawmakers were critical of IG George for not alerting them in 2012. Democrats called for increased scrutiny in 2010.

Representative Levin (Democrat Ranking Member, Ways and Means)
    quote:

    The BOLOs are linked to below, as provided (in redacted form) today [article posted June 24, 2013] by the IRS:


Horrendously redacted BOLO lists offered by the IRS in June. Why is this a story in August, almost a full month later?





DomKen -> RE: Issa Lied about IRS targets???? (8/22/2013 11:15:17 AM)

Of course the Democrats in Congress requested these groups get extra scrutiny. They are in violation of the law if they have 501(c)4 status and engage in any political activity.

Anyone paying attention to the actual story and getting their info from non right wing sources new the report made public by Issa was heavily redacted. The leaks of the unredacted material is what began to produce the full picture that groups of all political persuasions were subject to extra scrutiny.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Issa Lied about IRS targets???? (8/22/2013 11:25:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Anyone paying attention to the actual story and getting their info from non right wing sources new the report made public by Issa was heavily redacted.


I laughed at that. Hard.

quote:

The leaks of the unredacted material is what began to produce the full picture that groups of all political persuasions were subject to extra scrutiny.


And, this happened, when?




mnottertail -> RE: Issa Lied about IRS targets???? (8/22/2013 11:49:32 AM)

Mid to late June, wasn't it?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/24/politics/irs-targeting

But I knew anything coming out of Issas mouth was lying asswipe from the start.




Lucylastic -> RE: Issa Lied about IRS targets???? (8/22/2013 12:04:51 PM)

given before , but ...i guess someone is ignoring links and not making note..... or unable to find the timeline oneself...[8|]

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/06/proof-the-irs-didnt-target-just-conservatives/276536/




DesideriScuri -> RE: Issa Lied about IRS targets???? (8/22/2013 12:32:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
given before , but ...i guess someone is ignoring links and not making note..... or unable to find the timeline oneself...[8|]
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/06/proof-the-irs-didnt-target-just-conservatives/276536/


No, not ignoring links, nor am I unable to find the timeline...

However, why is it 2 months later that this is a story again?




mnottertail -> RE: Issa Lied about IRS targets???? (8/22/2013 12:45:15 PM)

Republicans would rather have this hung on Issa, even if it is rightfully so, so the debt ceiling looming large with their borrow and spend policies is not front page all the time.




Lucylastic -> RE: Issa Lied about IRS targets???? (8/22/2013 12:46:31 PM)

well I gave you the link to the atlantic post back up a few questions, that answered your question of when it happened....
as for WHY??? THe IRS explains that in a link to a PDF in the first post I made

http://democrats.oversight.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5965:new-documents-highlight-irs-scrutiny-of-progressive-groups&catid=3:press-releases&Itemid=49
its fouund by clicking on the link that says "IRS Letter to Levin – August 19, 2013"

just in case you cant find it, the link to the PDF
http://democrats.waysandmeans.house.gov/sites/democrats.waysandmeans.house.gov/files/IRS%20Letter%20to%20Levin%20August%2019%2C%202013.pdf

its only two pages




DesideriScuri -> RE: Issa Lied about IRS targets???? (8/22/2013 1:14:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
well I gave you the link to the atlantic post back up a few questions, that answered your question of when it happened....
as for WHY??? THe IRS explains that in a link to a PDF in the first post I made
http://democrats.oversight.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5965:new-documents-highlight-irs-scrutiny-of-progressive-groups&catid=3:press-releases&Itemid=49
its fouund by clicking on the link that says "IRS Letter to Levin – August 19, 2013"
just in case you cant find it, the link to the PDF
http://democrats.waysandmeans.house.gov/sites/democrats.waysandmeans.house.gov/files/IRS%20Letter%20to%20Levin%20August%2019%2C%202013.pdf
its only two pages


Aha, so it was the Republicans that were redacting everything, then, right? [8|]




Lucylastic -> RE: Issa Lied about IRS targets???? (8/22/2013 1:32:25 PM)

[sm=binky.gif]




papassion -> RE: Issa Lied about IRS targets???? (8/22/2013 1:51:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

given before , but ...i guess someone is ignoring links and not making note..... or unable to find the timeline oneself...[8|]

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/06/proof-the-irs-didnt-target-just-conservatives/276536/


From this article: The TIGTA decided there WAS bias because we determined during our reviews of statistical samples of IRC & 501(C) (4) tax exempt applications that ALL cases with tea party, Patriots, or 9/12 in their names were forwarded to the team of "specialists" between 2010 and 2013.

(My writing) Where they "sat" with no action according to people complaining on tv.
What part of "WAS BIAS" and "ALL CASES WITH TEA PARTY, PATRIOTS OR 9/12 were forwarded" " don't Democrats understand?

Then we have the paragraph: Because the IRS is prohibited by law from releasing info on applications either denied or NOT YET APPROVED, we will probably never know the political persuation ........................How cute! The Tea Party Applications, etc, sit with NO action, thus they don't get counted as being DISCRIMINATED against!

Thus, the Dems say with a straight face, "see, we didn't discriminate!"

Forget what Obama HIMSELF said on TV about how this discrimination has to stop! Forget the that head of the IRS apologized for extra scrutiny on conservative apps. They must have been on weed or something, because the NEW Liberal program is "PHONY SCANDALS!"




DesideriScuri -> RE: Issa Lied about IRS targets???? (8/22/2013 2:15:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
[sm=binky.gif]


Which is it, Lucy? Did Representative Levin get the redacted information from the IRS that he has on his website dated June 24th, 2013, or the Republicans?

If they were gained from the Republicans, he was wrong on his website.
    quote:

    The BOLOs are linked to below, as provided (in redacted form) today by the IRS:
[italics mine]

So, which is it? Was it the Republicans redacting everything? Was the IRS redacting everything? The non-redacted info came out on August 19, but according to Levin's site, it was clear that the IRS hadn't targeted only conservative-leaning groups.

Since Levin's democrat.waysandmeans.house.gov page "broke" this story almost 2 months ago, why, again, is it news now?




DomKen -> RE: Issa Lied about IRS targets???? (8/22/2013 2:57:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
given before , but ...i guess someone is ignoring links and not making note..... or unable to find the timeline oneself...[8|]
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/06/proof-the-irs-didnt-target-just-conservatives/276536/


No, not ignoring links, nor am I unable to find the timeline...

However, why is it 2 months later that this is a story again?


Because the full unredacted report was released officially and it conclusively proves Issa lied and tried to create this pseudo scandal.




DomKen -> RE: Issa Lied about IRS targets???? (8/22/2013 3:02:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

given before , but ...i guess someone is ignoring links and not making note..... or unable to find the timeline oneself...[8|]

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/06/proof-the-irs-didnt-target-just-conservatives/276536/


From this article: The TIGTA decided there WAS bias because we determined during our reviews of statistical samples of IRC & 501(C) (4) tax exempt applications that ALL cases with tea party, Patriots, or 9/12 in their names were forwarded to the team of "specialists" between 2010 and 2013.

(My writing) Where they "sat" with no action according to people complaining on tv.
What part of "WAS BIAS" and "ALL CASES WITH TEA PARTY, PATRIOTS OR 9/12 were forwarded" " don't Democrats understand?

Then we have the paragraph: Because the IRS is prohibited by law from releasing info on applications either denied or NOT YET APPROVED, we will probably never know the political persuation ........................How cute! The Tea Party Applications, etc, sit with NO action, thus they don't get counted as being DISCRIMINATED against!

Thus, the Dems say with a straight face, "see, we didn't discriminate!"

Forget what Obama HIMSELF said on TV about how this discrimination has to stop! Forget the that head of the IRS apologized for extra scrutiny on conservative apps. They must have been on weed or something, because the NEW Liberal program is "PHONY SCANDALS!"

Read the law those groups should never even have been considered for 501(c)4 status.
quote:

Civic leagues or organizations not organized for profit but operated exclusively for the promotion of social welfare, or local associations of employees, the membership of which is limited to the employees of a designated person or persons in a particular municipality, and the net earnings of which are devoted exclusively to charitable, educational, or recreational purposes.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/501

Political activity of any kind is expressly forbidden to those organizations by the very letter of the law.

The scandal is that any of them got the status and the ones that do have the status are not being prosecuted for tax fraud.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Issa Lied about IRS targets???? (8/22/2013 3:26:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
given before , but ...i guess someone is ignoring links and not making note..... or unable to find the timeline oneself...[8|]
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/06/proof-the-irs-didnt-target-just-conservatives/276536/

No, not ignoring links, nor am I unable to find the timeline...
However, why is it 2 months later that this is a story again?

Because the full unredacted report was released officially and it conclusively proves Issa lied and tried to create this pseudo scandal.


The redacted BOLO's were listed on Rep. Levin's website along with an article stating that the IRS hadn't only targeted conservative-leaning groups. That was back in June. Almost a full 2 months ago. Two months ago, this story was news. Two months ago.

This is not "news." It was already known, was it not?

Levin's site stated the redacted BOLO's came from the IRS. Sorta blows out the whole Republicans redacting everything meme, no?




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