quote:

Maybe in California the situation is different? I don't understand why they'd outlaw it.

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ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

There are the kinds of racists who see a black child and assume he's a potsmoking thug, looking for something to steal.

Then there are the racists who see a black child, and assume he just isn't as good as white folk, and we all have to make special allowances.

I happen to think that the coddling, "you poor thing" racists do their damage on a far bigger scale. They are at again, down Alabama way, establishing new school standards based on race.


The percentages needed for third-graders to pass math in their subgroups for 2013 are:

- 93.6 percent of Asian/Pacific Islander students.

- 91.5 percent of white students.

- 90.3 percent of American Indian students.

- 89.4 percent of multiracial students.

- 85.5 percent of Hispanic students.

- 82.6 percent of students in poverty.

- 79.6 percent of English language-learner students.

- 79 percent of black students.

- 61.7 percent of special needs students.
http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20130630/NEWS/130629743

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ORIGINAL: MAINEiacMISTRESS

Shaking My head right now. Why any parent bothers to put their children through public/private school (at the mercy of nutcases posing as educatiors---and it's not just Alabama, it's EVERY school) is beyond Me. Bigotry isn't just RACE-related. There's a hell of a lot we females suffer through from school systems' prejudice...Limits on what we are allowed to do for sports, pressure to take certain "gender-norm" courses, different expectations placed on our futures. Low income, disabled, and gay students experience it too. There is always SOME difference that people are singled out for and it shouldn't be that way in school. Education should be free of bullshit and bigotry, with everyone given equal opportunities.

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ORIGINAL: cordeliasub

As a teacher in Alabama, I can tell you that this is frustrating, but that in some ways it has its origins in fear. Because if minority students earn lower grades than non-minority students, the assumption of those outside of education (and in most cases outside of Alabama) is that teachers and schools must be discriminating and that is why minorities' grades are not the same. So in a very ill conceived attempt to stop THAT, some schools do skirt the standards. And though it isn't right, I can tell you that I have heard more than one minority parent say their child SHOULDN'T be help to the same standard because they deserve inflated grades to make up for the 50's and 60's or such.

I agree with the OP. I think we are basically giving kids a slap in the face when we look at their skin color and say, "Well, you are probably going to struggle, so we won't expect as much." It's insulting.

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ORIGINAL: coldslayer
I wonder how they deal with overlap and how they came up with such precise numbers. Did they pull em out of a hat?

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ORIGINAL: MAINEiacMISTRESS

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

yes california started passing laws against home schooling, not sure where it is at now. I wonder when people are going to start passing laws against government interference. Everyone has been shown how to do it.

WHOA! Are you SERIOUS? Some of the smartest, most self-confident kids I know were homeschooled (secular, not religious). I owned a retail store for 14 years, and these kids, often 8 or 10 years old, would come in by themselves, fill their basket with all sorts of items with complicated pricing (some bulk "by the pound" items mixed with "3 for $4.59" etc.) pile them on the counter and hand Me EXACT CHANGE...INCLUDING TAX, before I'd even rung them up. Meanwhile the much older public school kids would ask Me, "How many '2 for $5' items can I buy with a $20 bill?"
...and some of you right now are trying to do that math with your fingers. *wink*
I have several friends who removed their kids from public school due to poor grades and/or bullying to homeschool them (some returned to public schooling after a "remedial period" fixed things). Straight A's and more self confidence were the result. Homeschooling, when done correctly, is far more focused and allows the child to live in "REAL LIFE" alongside adults teaching them real life skills (often a family business such as farm, restaurant, or retail store) instead of the institutionalized setting of a school building with mobs of unruly often criminal-minded kids who affect them negatively. Don't spew that BS about kids needing public school to be "socialized", look at all the cases of bullying, sexual violence, and drug addiction that get spread from child to child in schools...let's not forget BIGOTRY lest the OP's thread get highjacked...how can anyone consider all that interaction "beneficial"?
Maybe in California the situation is different? I don't understand why they'd outlaw it.

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ORIGINAL: graceadieu

What's the context here?

From the article, it looks like the state is trying to set realistic short-term goals for schools to improve the scores of different groups of kids. If, say, 70% of black students passed math in 2012, it's probably not realistic to expect that anything the state could possibly do could make 91.5% of the same group pass math one year later. But 79%, that could be a realistic goal.

Ideally, 100% of students from all backgrounds in all schools will be able to pass math. But that's not going to happen overnight. Generally speaking, setting a series of smaller goals that are achievable in the short term is a better way to motivate people to get things done.

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ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I think any society that has different standards for different people based upon how they look is headed for trouble. That's the long and short of it.

White kids: You have to score 75%

Black kids: You're okay with 55%

Then, later on, we get to hear how the job market is racist because there are less black kids hired, coming out of high school. Could it be that not requiring a kid to be as proficient as his next-door neighbor might be creating a roadblock to that child/person being able to compete for those same jobs?

It's just another tool of seperation because divide-and-conquer has been proven to work so often.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu

What's the context here?

From the article, it looks like the state is trying to set realistic short-term goals for schools to improve the scores of different groups of kids. If, say, 70% of black students passed math in 2012, it's probably not realistic to expect that anything the state could possibly do could make 91.5% of the same group pass math one year later. But 79%, that could be a realistic goal.

Ideally, 100% of students from all backgrounds in all schools will be able to pass math. But that's not going to happen overnight. Generally speaking, setting a series of smaller goals that are achievable in the short term is a better way to motivate people to get things done.

This.

The inclusion of Poverty, ESL, and Special Needs groups shows this is an educational plan and not racist coddling as the OP sees it through his prism. There is nothing racial about Special Needs especially.

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ORIGINAL: thezeppo

Interesting point, but I would argue our society (American and British alike) has always treated people differently according to colour. Surely the point of this is to provide a short term aid to allow ethnic minorities to regain equal footing? If anything, the job market could do with making more effort to recruit ethnic minorities. The situation isn't equal today, and its not enough to just end discrimination. In business a company doesn't catch up to its competitors by being as good as them, it does it by being better. Likewise, treating people equally today doesn't create equality, because inequality has been around far longer. To create equality in society we must, in the short term, treat those who have been the victims of discrimination better.

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ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: thezeppo

Interesting point, but I would argue our society (American and British alike) has always treated people differently according to colour. Surely the point of this is to provide a short term aid to allow ethnic minorities to regain equal footing? If anything, the job market could do with making more effort to recruit ethnic minorities. The situation isn't equal today, and its not enough to just end discrimination. In business a company doesn't catch up to its competitors by being as good as them, it does it by being better. Likewise, treating people equally today doesn't create equality, because inequality has been around far longer. To create equality in society we must, in the short term, treat those who have been the victims of discrimination better.

People are NEVER going to be treated equally in the job market. Companies want the best and brightest and cheapest labor they can get their hands on because it improves their bottom line.

But how does saying: "Black kids, you only have to know 80% as much as white kids to graduate" (even, as you claim as a short-term measure) help the kids to whom - by definition - you are giving a sub-standard education? Do we tell them: "Well, it's gonna suck for you but your kids will be better off"?

Some people have mentioned that economic disadvantage is one of the issues in sub-par education. Doesn't this perpetuate that?

No, I think that this is a form of racism where we should be saying: "Children, this is what we, as a nation, require of you" but, what we are saying is: "Some of you don't measure up to others so, instead of bucking you up, we're going to turn a blind eye. Oh and please learn to say: 'Would you like fries with that?' because that's going to be your lot in life".

Sorry. That offends me.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

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ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Oh! Check the time stamp of your edit and my post. I was writting my post while you were editing. I apologize if I came off like I was specifically beating you up but, it was purely a timing thing and a general disagreement with the entire "program" (which, when I started responding looked like it had your support).



Peace and comfort,



Michael

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: cordeliasub

As a teacher in Alabama, I can tell you that this is frustrating, but that in some ways it has its origins in fear. Because if minority students earn lower grades than non-minority students, the assumption of those outside of education (and in most cases outside of Alabama) is that teachers and schools must be discriminating and that is why minorities' grades are not the same. So in a very ill conceived attempt to stop THAT, some schools do skirt the standards. And though it isn't right, I can tell you that I have heard more than one minority parent say their child SHOULDN'T be help to the same standard because they deserve inflated grades to make up for the 50's and 60's or such.

I agree with the OP. I think we are basically giving kids a slap in the face when we look at their skin color and say, "Well, you are probably going to struggle, so we won't expect as much." It's insulting.

These standards say it is ok if 21 % of black 3rd graders can't read, when do they think they are going to catch up.
Schools in Alabama (and most other places) are doing more to fill out paperwork than teach kids.

Let me stress this THE TEACHERS ARE NOT AT FAULT.

It may be different in your district but here teachers are not allowed to maintain control of the classroom.
They send troublemakers to the principal's office and it is they who are disciplined.
I am tutoring a 7th grader in Civics (and previously in history). Part of her problem is that she can't read phonetically and has never been exposed to critical thinking.
(being 12 and easily distracted doesn't help)

The system is the problem and things like this only make it worse while pretending to prove they are fixing things.
Worse yet they may believe it.

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how can the inclusion of "whites in poverty" as a special category erease the fact that all the other categories are based on the shade of brown? So a school that has a mjority of black poor child is expected to have better standards than one where there are middleclass blacks as the povery standards are higher than the one for "blacks no matter of the income"?