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RE: Massive Fraud in 3... 2... 1 - 7/8/2013 4:00:05 PM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

JMO.. but I think that they are simply saying this to get everyone to sign up for ACA, its to suck people in.. once they do and the dust settles.. at some point I fully expect they will indeed start verifying everyone's income & if they do qualify, blah blah blah.. which is also why this has been put into the IRS dept..

Yeh, sucking in all those uninsured folks and giving them subsidies if they are out of work or below some multiple of the poverty line in earnings. What a devious conspiracy!

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RE: Massive Fraud in 3... 2... 1 - 7/8/2013 4:36:16 PM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

JMO.. but I think that they are simply saying this to get everyone to sign up for ACA, its to suck people in.. once they do and the dust settles.. at some point I fully expect they will indeed start verifying everyone's income & if they do qualify, blah blah blah.. which is also why this has been put into the IRS dept..

Yeh, sucking in all those uninsured folks and giving them subsidies if they are out of work or below some multiple of the poverty line in earnings. What a devious conspiracy!

no silly! of course not those people, they obviously would qualify for the subsidies & are the ones intended to get them, no need for them to lie about it or for them to be sucked in to signing up for it.. Its the ones that dont qualify (too much income or whatever) that will lie to try to get something for nothing but are against ACA if they have to pay.. those are the people i am talking about getting sucked in to signing up.. Remember I do come from a country that has a good national health care system and I am all for that.. I am not quite sure about this monstrosity the US govt has come up with tho.. as I have said before, imo they should have taken the greed outta this health care scheme..

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RE: Massive Fraud in 3... 2... 1 - 7/9/2013 5:20:24 AM

Kana

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Aw man, you folks want to talk fraud, try this article for a truly amazing read...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/26/us/farm-loan-bias-claims-often-unsupported-cost-us-millions.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

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RE: Massive Fraud in 3... 2... 1 - 7/9/2013 7:37:39 AM

subrob1967

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The ACA was deliberately designed to fail, the goal is to get too many people to sign on so it can't be repealed. The end game is a government single payer system that will replace the ACA without any of the lemmings who signed on losing their free shit.

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RE: Massive Fraud in 3... 2... 1 - 7/9/2013 9:58:23 AM

vincentML

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quote:

Remember I do come from a country that has a good national health care system and I am all for that.. I am not quite sure about this monstrosity the US govt has come up with tho.. as I have said before, imo they should have taken the greed outta this health care scheme..

They should have but they never would have gotten the votes. You have to start with the hand you were dealt.

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RE: Massive Fraud in 3... 2... 1 - 7/9/2013 10:29:38 AM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Remember I do come from a country that has a good national health care system and I am all for that.. I am not quite sure about this monstrosity the US govt has come up with tho.. as I have said before, imo they should have taken the greed outta this health care scheme..

They should have but they never would have gotten the votes. You have to start with the hand you were dealt.

umm.. I would say you are confusing lobby pressure and "campaign contributions" with "votes".. Obama was elected imo primarily on his promise of a good national health care system.. of course he never told any of the voters how badly they were gonna be sold down the river..

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RE: Massive Fraud in 3... 2... 1 - 7/9/2013 11:25:28 AM

tazzygirl

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Because no one knew how badly they were going to be sold down the river on this deal. Who would have thought the GOP would bitch about a bunch of people without insurance being able to get insurance.

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RE: Massive Fraud in 3... 2... 1 - 7/9/2013 11:27:04 AM

Moonhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

The ACA was deliberately designed to fail, the goal is to get too many people to sign on so it can't be repealed.

That's a contradiction right there, sport: if "too many people sign on so it can't be repealed" is the objective, how is it "deliberately designed to fail". That's a bit of a contradiction, innit?

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RE: Massive Fraud in 3... 2... 1 - 7/9/2013 1:03:22 PM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Because no one knew how badly they were going to be sold down the river on this deal. Who would have thought the GOP would bitch about a bunch of people without insurance being able to get insurance.

wasnt it Pelosi that said ya gotta sign the ACA deal to find out what is in it?

Anyway, I blame the whole bunch of them, both sides.. once voters made their voice clearly heard that they wanted a good health care plan, all the polticians should have been honorable and did the job voters expected them to and create a good AFFORDABLE health care system.. they forgot about the A in ACA..

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RE: Massive Fraud in 3... 2... 1 - 7/9/2013 1:43:36 PM

papassion

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Because no one knew how badly they were going to be sold down the river on this deal. Who would have thought the GOP would bitch about a bunch of people without insurance being able to get insurance.

Out of one side of your mouth, you are saying the Republicans (people say Republicans are for the rich, like the insurers, who are going to get rich on this plan)

Then out of the other side of your same mouth, you say the Republicans are against the bill. (which will make their friends, the insurers, rich) Which is it?

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RE: Massive Fraud in 3... 2... 1 - 7/9/2013 1:45:10 PM

tazzygirl

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What came out at the end was not what Obama wanted.... as far as saying what she did, Republicans agreed with her.

As far as affordable, I view what is happening as affordable. People with pre-existing conditions can find, and afford, insurance. Poor workers can find, and keep, insurance that doesnt lock them into a low paying job, keeping them from being able to look for better opportunities. Its not Free, but it is Affordable... far more so than the system before.

You may not like it... and its not what I wanted either... but its still better than what we had.

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RE: Massive Fraud in 3... 2... 1 - 7/9/2013 1:46:27 PM

tazzygirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Because no one knew how badly they were going to be sold down the river on this deal. Who would have thought the GOP would bitch about a bunch of people without insurance being able to get insurance.

Out of one side of your mouth, you are saying the Republicans (people say Republicans are for the rich, like the insurers, who are going to get rich on this plan)

Then out of the other side of your same mouth, you say the Republicans are against the bill. (which will make their friends, the insurers, rich) Which is it?

Want to complete that thought process there?

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RE: Massive Fraud in 3... 2... 1 - 7/9/2013 3:08:05 PM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

What came out at the end was not what Obama wanted.... as far as saying what she did, Republicans agreed with her.

As far as affordable, I view what is happening as affordable. People with pre-existing conditions can find, and afford, insurance. Poor workers can find, and keep, insurance that doesnt lock them into a low paying job, keeping them from being able to look for better opportunities. Its not Free, but it is Affordable... far more so than the system before.

You may not like it... and its not what I wanted either... but its still better than what we had.

I dont find that letting the politicians off by saying its better than what we had & affordable, the politicians should not be let off the hook, imo.. Its not acceptable to me, but then, like I said on another thread, I am not used to such a greedy health care industry or health care system & I see clearly how badly Americans are getting ripped off.. I have read comments by affected Americans and one comment that strikes me was that the persons rate increased by about $120/m and their deductible was doubled to $4500.. that persons remark was that "now they are paying more for a plan that they can not afford to use".. so obviously this person is not feeling what they are getting now is better than what they had or that its affordable for them..

I dunno.. its one huge fuck-up if you ask me.. it doesnt matter how good the idea was originally, its what they ended up giving voters in the end (no pun intended) is what actually counts..

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RE: Massive Fraud in 3... 2... 1 - 7/9/2013 4:59:38 PM

tazzygirl

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I think many will agree that the country is getting ripped off by the health care industry... which bought and paid for many politicians.

Without knowing the particulars, I cannot say that the person who you read about was being honest or not. I have seen many such "examples" only to go do the math myself and find they exaggerated or blatantly lied to push their own agenda.

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RE: Massive Fraud in 3... 2... 1 - 7/9/2013 7:21:37 PM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I think many will agree that the country is getting ripped off by the health care industry... which bought and paid for many politicians.

Without knowing the particulars, I cannot say that the person who you read about was being honest or not. I have seen many such "examples" only to go do the math myself and find they exaggerated or blatantly lied to push their own agenda.

well.. it sounded to me like it was a plan thru their company and the rate was going up quite a bit, with much less in return.. yes, sometimes people do exaggerate things but I expect this scenario is quite real for certain people.. If you are living in an expensive city and your budget is close to the edge, maybe a paycheck from homelessness, the deductible means if you need medical, even with this medical plan, that you cant afford it..

Some people actually go to great lengths to not go in the hole & to live within their meager means but it can be brutal.. I read about one student that didnt want to take out student loans & pay on them for the next decade so to keep his costs as low as possible, he was literally living in his van in a parking lot rented by the college.. Is that the length someone with a $4500 (or more) deductible needs to go too, I wonder.. for some people $4500 would be the cost of a room rental in a shared apt/house for a year..

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RE: Massive Fraud in 3... 2... 1 - 7/9/2013 7:37:17 PM

tazzygirl

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quote:

well.. it sounded to me like it was a plan thru their company and the rate was going up quite a bit, with much less in return.. yes, sometimes people do exaggerate things but I expect this scenario is quite real for certain people.. If you are living in an expensive city and your budget is close to the edge, maybe a paycheck from homelessness, the deductible means if you need medical, even with this medical plan, that you cant afford it..

Yes, I have seen that argument as well. Yet they negate to mention that for years insurance rates have been going up and up and up, with deductibles increasing as well. Businesses for a while covered and ate the costs, but eventually even businesses had to pass it along.

For example.... from this we get a clearer picture of whats been happening to out of pocket expenses up to 2008.

http://www.politico.com/pdf/PPM110_hiddencosts.pdf

Rising Deductibles
A deductible is the amount of money a person must pay out of his or her own pocket before health insurance begins to cover the cost of medical expenses. Deductibles have risen substantially over time.

For preferred provider organization (PPO) plans purchased through an employer, the average family deductible increased 30 percent in just two years, from $1,034 to $1,344.3 This effect is more pronounced for small firms, where PPO deductibles increased from $1,439 to $2,367 — a rise of 64 percent.4

This is what everyone pretends to ignore when they take aim at the ACA. Costs were already increasing at a staggering rate.

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RE: Massive Fraud in 3... 2... 1 - 7/9/2013 8:36:34 PM

tj444

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ugh.. yes, everything goes up.. for a single person in BC, the rate increased from 2011 to 2012 by maybe $5/m.. again, no deductible.. I'm sorry but I can not view this ACA as affordable.. my mind just can not comprehend this.. The person had their deductible increase from $2500 to 4500, in one year, almost double.. so.. where the hell will it be next year then? the year after that? this is total craziness!

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RE: Massive Fraud in 3... 2... 1 - 7/9/2013 8:41:14 PM

erieangel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

The greedy corporations that run this country won't allow Congress to vote yes on anything that will cut costs because cutting costs will cut their profits. That's why the health care law takes care of one issue and not the other.

When they talk about cutting costs and the aca they are mainly talking about cutting costs to medicare and medicaid. you know the ones the government runs not the greedy corps. And yes it does address many issues involving CMS and cutting costs. Now whether or not it works is another story.

Who do you think runs Medicaid these days? I'm convinced one of the main reasons we got a Medicaid expansion isn't because of the number of people who need it but because of the profit it will provide to the private insurance companies that contract to each state to run their Medicaid programs. We can't even completely blame the republicans for that little bit of nonsense--Clinton signed the law which privatized Medicaid in 1996.

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RE: Massive Fraud in 3... 2... 1 - 7/9/2013 8:50:24 PM

tazzygirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

ugh.. yes, everything goes up.. for a single person in BC, the rate increased from 2011 to 2012 by maybe $5/m.. again, no deductible.. I'm sorry but I can not view this ACA as affordable.. my mind just can not comprehend this.. The person had their deductible increase from $2500 to 4500, in one year, almost double.. so.. where the hell will it be next year then? the year after that? this is total craziness!

Again, without knowing the plan, I cant answer that. However, insurance companies are going for all they can possibly get this year because they believe many will cross over to the exchange where the amount they can charge will be closely regulated.

Do you have to deal with for profit corporations to get your insurance?

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 7/9/2013 8:54:32 PM >

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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RE: Massive Fraud in 3... 2... 1 - 7/9/2013 8:51:59 PM

tazzygirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

The greedy corporations that run this country won't allow Congress to vote yes on anything that will cut costs because cutting costs will cut their profits. That's why the health care law takes care of one issue and not the other.

When they talk about cutting costs and the aca they are mainly talking about cutting costs to medicare and medicaid. you know the ones the government runs not the greedy corps. And yes it does address many issues involving CMS and cutting costs. Now whether or not it works is another story.

Who do you think runs Medicaid these days? I'm convinced one of the main reasons we got a Medicaid expansion isn't because of the number of people who need it but because of the profit it will provide to the private insurance companies that contract to each state to run their Medicaid programs. We can't even completely blame the republicans for that little bit of nonsense--Clinton signed the law which privatized Medicaid in 1996.

Locally we are up to 4 different insurance companies contracted to cover Medicaid... those people sign up through the web site to determine which company covers theirs.

Much like an exchange.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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