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Simple Versus Complex Demands - 6/25/2006 1:18:42 PM   
genvieve


Posts: 228
Joined: 5/14/2005
From: SF Bay Area
Status: offline 		Ok, i'm not really sure how to put this, but i'll certainly make an attempt to put it just right.
 
i have recently been informed that in my submission, i am a big picture submissive.  Meaning that i am perfectly happy making the grand gestures, giving my all on the huge things...but when it comes to the little things, like reading collar me every day... i'm not always great about it.
 
i've racked my brain and i actually consider myself to be a very dedicated submissive, but i have to wonder... is there something going on here?  Am i perhaps not honest with myself on the kind of submissive i am?  Will there always be some little thing that i let slip through the cracks?
 
i wonder:
 
Do any other submissives find that they have this same problem?
 
Do any other Dominants find submissives who have a tendency do to the same thing?
 
And why?
 
i'll be interested to see Y/your replies and will try my very best to take none of it personally.
 
-genvieve

_____________________________

In the quietness of myself, i find myself at the mercy of Your hand.

Musical Wishes Design
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RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands - 6/25/2006 1:28:27 PM   
LadiesBladewing


Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline 		Every submissive individual expresses his or her submission on hir own in different ways. I think what you are hearing here is that the dominant who is managing you wants you to be more detail oriented and to focus on things that may not have such huge "payoffs" or may be more tedious. Apparently s/he seems to feel that you are focusing on the big, noticeable stuff, but ignoring the smaller, less noticeable things.

Whether or not you feel that you are dedicated, if the dominant managing you is not happy with the level of your dedication, -that- is a sign you need to re-evaluate according to your dominant individual's concepts of how you should be providing service, or, if you find you can't do that, consider that you may not be in the right D/s relationship for you.

ZWD

_____________________________


"Should have", "could have", "would have" and "can't" may be the most dangerous phrases in the English language.
Bladewing Enclave

(in reply to genvieve)
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RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands - 6/25/2006 1:37:40 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		Firstly, I would like to thank you for not being ego centric in your viewing of this. It does you great credit, in that so many others must think the world revolves around them. Very adult of you.

We all make mistakes, and forget things. This is one reason that so many of us enjoy using scheduling and routines to organize our day to day lives. I have dealt with past girls who had impairments such as ADHD......So my writing things down and making checklists up, was of great value to thier comfort and efficiency......they did not have to wonder what to do first..And could simply move down the list..Feeling better and better, as they sucessfully accomplished that which was needed of them.

When you care about a person,and want them to be happy and fullfilled in thier service to you-structure, and the ability to conform competently is of great importance. Many speak of the gift of submission,whether or no that is correct.

But the gift of Dominance to submission is often one of building the house in which the submissive then resides......and the Dominant can build that of straw,or of stone.

It depends entirely upon the priorities he or she sets.

(in reply to genvieve)
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RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands - 6/25/2006 1:40:32 PM   
enigmabrat


Posts: 2383
Joined: 8/1/2004
Status: offline 		Sorry IM rather confused about what she is saying

_____________________________

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Wooden paddle $50.00 on Master card
ratten cane $48.00 on Master card

a Master that can use them all Priceless

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RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands - 6/25/2006 1:46:57 PM   
DivaZya


Posts: 103
Joined: 2/15/2005
Status: offline 		    Never thought of Myself as a 'big picture' Domina - but often I just can't be bothered to assign the teeny weenie details - although I DO get very specific on many issues that I try to cover as soon as they arise.
    I don't feel that I should have to go over the simple things over and over - to Me this means that the submissive does not want to please Me or is looking for a way to gain negative attention. Either of which will do no good since I make it clear upfront that I will not abide a sam or brat.  (it's fine for My submissives to be bratty and I enjoy fiesty, but not Mainly that)
   I don't want those that come to Me to believe they must grovel and be "all submissive like" all the time.  Makes for burn-out and it's unrealistic.. to have to be 'on' every moment you are with someone! 


_____________________________

~ D/s isn't based on fantasies- it may be motivated by them, but reality must be dealt with, and sometimes sharply! ~

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RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands - 6/25/2006 1:54:32 PM   
feastie


Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: genvieve

Ok, i'm not really sure how to put this, but i'll certainly make an attempt to put it just right.
 
i have recently been informed that in my submission, i am a big picture submissive.  Meaning that i am perfectly happy making the grand gestures, giving my all on the huge things...but when it comes to the little things, like reading collar me every day... i'm not always great about it.
 
i've racked my brain and i actually consider myself to be a very dedicated submissive, but i have to wonder... is there something going on here?  Am i perhaps not honest with myself on the kind of submissive i am?  Will there always be some little thing that i let slip through the cracks?
 
i wonder:
 
Do any other submissives find that they have this same problem?
 
Do any other Dominants find submissives who have a tendency do to the same thing?
 
And why?
 
i'll be interested to see Y/your replies and will try my very best to take none of it personally.
 
-genvieve


Have you been told that you're to read collarme everyday?  If so, and you're not, then why not?

Are there lots of little things that you've been specifically requested to do, and you leave them undone? 



_____________________________

Snarky and loving it.

Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

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RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands - 6/25/2006 2:09:35 PM   
reticence


Posts: 180
Joined: 2/28/2006
Status: offline 		I , too, tend to be a big picture person, always having faith that the minutae will take care of itself.  This has gotten me in trouble.  I find I have to be ever mindful of the details, almost to the point of micro-stepping myself through a day.  It is a matter of self-discipline, really, and making a point of being in the moment. 

The big picture is really just a whole collection of little pictures, of which we need to take care.

(in reply to feastie)
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RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands - 6/25/2006 2:29:21 PM   
trippingdaisy


Posts: 113
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		Very interesting question.

i do tend to accidentally forget the little things, but that has a lot to do with my memory lacking, not my dedication.

Is it that you find yourself forgetting? Or that you simply don't want to do the little things? If you're like me, and you simply forget, try making a list to follow daily. Perhaps have the list written for you until you're confident you can remember what you need to do yourself. Either way, i know it helps me a great deal. :)

Good luck!


_____________________________

Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing.

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RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands - 6/25/2006 2:35:26 PM   
LordDominik


Posts: 114
Joined: 5/3/2004
From: Omaha, Nebraska
Status: offline 		Well, in My experiance every slave I have had that has been asked to keep a jopurnal, has never done a good job of keeping up with it, so I imagine that everyone has a problem like that, Dom and sub alike.  I would say that this is one of those little things that juat makes us all individuals.
 
~ LD

_____________________________

"For my system, which you disapprove of, is also my greatest comfort in life, the source of all my happiness. It means more to me than my life itself."
Marquis de Sade

(in reply to genvieve)
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RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands - 6/25/2006 2:36:55 PM   
Sensualips


Posts: 1013
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		For me this has little to do with submission.  I am a "big picture" person and it is most noticeable in the work environment.  I am great at strategic planning, overall grant writing, brainstorming  solutions, developing projects, etc.  However I am dreadful when it comes to the small, everyday things needed to implement these grand plans successfully. It works out great if I am partnered with a detail oriented, organized person.

This becomes obvious in my personal life as well.

(in reply to genvieve)
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RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands - 6/25/2006 2:46:31 PM   
krikket


Posts: 1183
Joined: 11/17/2004
From: Washington, DC Metro Area
Status: offline 		i tended to be just the opposite.  i loved doing the small things, doing things that can easily be overlooked.  This can also present a problem, especially if your partner isn't the kind to notice to small things you do for them.  Being a submissive isn't easy, especially if, in the early days, expectations (yours and theirs) aren't discussed, with examples given if need be.  As with most aspects of any relationship, communication in the key.  It also might help you to make a list of to-do thing, big and small, that you can/should do, they want/expect you to do. This can help later on if differences arise about what those expectations are.  Everyone is different..what you see as a small act, your partner might see only as the "big picture" kinda thing.

i do wish you luck...

cheers
jimini

_____________________________

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to bloom."

by A. Nin



When your heart speaks take good notes.





(in reply to genvieve)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands - 6/25/2006 2:46:44 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Just as some doms are micromanagers and some submissives crave that, I believe that others could be described as "big picture" and I'd put myself in there. However, there are some tasks such as journaling that I have to do every day, and in such cases there is good reason for it.

It is possible that you don't see how such tasks fit into the big picture, so it could help to have that clarified for you. Perhaps you're just a space cadet and forget, in which case you should find ways not to forget the "little" stuff. But it is also possible that there is a mismatch of micromanager with big picture person -- you'll have to figure out if that is the case for yourself.

< Message edited by KatyLied -- 6/25/2006 2:51:51 PM >

_____________________________

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- Albert Einstein

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RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands - 6/25/2006 3:12:04 PM   
elsie


Posts: 28
Joined: 10/21/2004
Status: offline 		I guess you could say i'm mainly a big picture person, but i do my very best to pay attention to details as this is something Mistress is very adament (ok so i can't spell) about, paying attention and details.

I don't HAVE to do journals or read certain forums but there are other things that i must do, like when shopping for clothes, i must keep my "uniform" guidelines in mind, other than work clothes, my wardrobe is fairly specific.

Mistress knows i need structure in my life, more that i've had in the past, she has taken all the control that i am comfortable giving her and continue to give her more and more.

Some Doms just like giving little minial tasks to occupy their subs time, (and yes i speak from experience here), because they aren't really interested in the results, only if it was done.  Testing the submissive, if you will.

I would do anything Mistress asked of me, or at least attempt to, because that is the control i have given her over me.

respectfully,
elsie

(in reply to genvieve)
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RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands - 6/25/2006 4:01:17 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Sounds to me lass that you re ok with all the larger things but may be a tad forgetfull and smaller and possibly routibne or mundane things slip unter the radar.. You are not alone if this. In this case, some need a little more micromanagement. Were your Master I'd have you reading Standing Orders every day and have a list of daily things to do posted on a board for you to mark when done..... Not a bad way to get new habbits.... Sounds like you are a damned good sub.. 

< Message edited by IronBear -- 6/25/2006 4:03:13 PM >

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands - 6/25/2006 6:15:44 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: genvieve

  Am i perhaps not honest with myself on the kind of submissive i am?  Will there always be some little thing that i let slip through the cracks?


Hi genvieve,

When presented with an issue that makes me think I have tried to discipline myself to make sure that some of the earliest thinking is in an attempt to clear the decks, to get the clearest view I can of just what is is that needs thinking about.

Inserting layers of theorizing and labeling when the option exists to operate directly on the matters at hand often doesn't help. The term "big picture sub" was probably useful at that point in the conversation to get an impression across efficiently. I wouldn't be surprised, though, if he is not terribly invested in the label or the theoretical category it might stand for. I wouldn't be surprised if his concerns are fairly specific and can be dealt with effectively, and in a mutually rewarding way, irrespective of who fits into what category.

Is it possible that he would be better pleased to eventually learn that you decided to spend less time figuring out where someone like you fits in some conceptual scheme of submissive "types," and more time trying to tune into your instincts and fine-tune them in the directions which will please him best?

Labels aren't inherently evil. They make organizing the pantry a lot easier, for instance. Sometimes they can really help us express and sort our thoughts on trickier matters like the one you're facing, too. I guess I'm just asking if you'd like to place less emphasis on the label/category issue and more on the thing in itself.

"What sort of person am I, really?" is one kind of question.

"What should I do" is a simpler one and it just might do the trick here.






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Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands - 6/25/2006 6:43:47 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline 		I believe it is best to view all commands the same; one does not carry more 'weight' than another. 
A topic often discussed in BDSM forums is the need for the dominant to be a trustworthy person.  I believe it goes both ways.  A dominant needs to trust the submissive.  If, as a submissive, I do not carry out all my Master's orders, how can he trust me?
An example from this weekend.  I was blindfolded and Master told me to lie perfectly still; a pretty  'simple' command.  He engaged in  knife play using a very sharp knife.  Since I could not see, if I used the premise that 'simple' commands are not as important, I might have chosen to wiggle around.  He needed to trust that I would obey him in order to keep the play safe.
I would suggest that if an order is within the parameters of what has been agreed upon, then all commands are simply obeyed. 


_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

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RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands - 6/25/2006 9:29:58 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Am i perhaps not honest with myself on the kind of submissive i am?  Will there always be some little thing that i let slip through the cracks?

i wonder:

Do any other submissives find that they have this same problem?

Do any other Dominants find submissives who have a tendency do to the same thing?

And why?

i'll be interested to see Y/your replies and will try my very best to take none of it personally.

-genvieve

YOu will always be less than "perfect."

However, what you define as "big" is not what someone else defines as "big" so they can't really use those terms to define yourself.

We all have different styles- it doesn't make you less submissive, it just makes you who you are.  I'm not into rituals at all- I don't need to have a set defined rules of order thing just to get my ass out the door and get stuff done.  Some people however LOVE rituals and like being micromanaged.

Figure out what style you work best with and then get with that person.  If you work well with someone, they can train you to change your focus somewhat and be able to work through macro or micro management whatever they want- but you shouldn't doubt yourself just because your style of submission doesn't fit with everyones style of dominance.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands - 6/25/2006 10:29:44 PM   
classykindasassy


Posts: 291
Joined: 12/13/2005
Status: offline 		What ridiculousness says that you gotta read this stuff every day to make you a complete submissive??? What a crock!

What matters is your LIFE. your SERVICE. WHO is defining whoYOU are???

You have to know yourself and your gifts and talents, and your "flaws" and have a dom for whom that is a fit. A dom should empower their sub to do valid things to improve themselves in their own personal contribution in life.

i don't see what relevance is of your not wasting hours with all the rants and mostly useless stuff on here. If I was a dom I'd consider that some valid activity spent in real life, in service, in love, and taking care of yourself, would be better spent.

If I had someone that based my value or defined my specturm as a sub on how much time i spent engaging in this stuff, I would not be letting the screen door hit my ass on the way out.

_____________________________

"The less I seek my source for some definitive, the closer I am to fine." -The Indigo Girls

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Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands - 6/25/2006 10:46:37 PM   
genvieve


Posts: 228
Joined: 5/14/2005
From: SF Bay Area
Status: offline 		Thank you all for your various inputs and since the general consensus seems to be the same, i hope Y/ya'll won't mind if i adress the major points in one post rather than going through and quoting each and every one of you.
 
- Some have asked me to be more specific with the "little tasks" that i'm asked to do.  Well, aside from calling Him every morning and every evening before bed, my Dominant isn't much into micromanagement.  i think this may be where i have a bit of a problem.  Mind you, this is in no way a criticism of His Dominance but rather...since He asks me to do so very little, it is possible that i have issues with remembering them.  ie, since they are so infrequent, they are not habitual and thus aren't easily remembered.

One of the recent things He has asked me to do was to read collar me every day.  Well, more specifically, He has asked me to read His posts on collar me so that W/we may discuss the events happening on the board.   W/we find it an excellent way to communicate how W/we feel about things and gets a lot of "negotiations" out of the way without ruining potential scenes or issues.
 
Not an unreasonable request, as far as i can see.  Thus, i have no issues with doing so.  None whatsoever.  i have agreed to consent to this issue. 
 
But when it comes down to the brass tax of things, my computer has problems, i have to see my doctor, i forget, my dog ate my homework.  Most of my rationalizations are valid ones.  i am a busy woman with a lot of outside forces "keeping me down."  But what makes me wonder here is if EVERY explanation is a rational one, are they really rational?  If 3 times out of 10 something "legitimate" happens, is it really that legitimate?  Or am i just not prioritizing my life correctly?
 
Do you see where i'm getting at?
 
-Labels:  Perhaps, i should be specific.  The term "big picture submissive" was not actually used by my Dominant.  This was, however a way of summing up what He has stressed to me before.  He is in no way second guessing my submission.  What He is, however doing, is causing me to think.
 
Ok, so the basic answer to Y/your questions is that.  A very specific example is him asking me to read collar me.  Why does it not happen every day?  Honestly?  i'm busy.  i forget.  my computer has troubles.  i'm tired.  They day slips away and then i have something else to do.  Basically, that's it.  And in the grand scheme of things...between these things and giving my Dominant what He needs... i would 10 times rather give Him what He needs.
 
But if i say it... and it still doesn't happen... then what?
 
i'll stop my diatribe.  Thank Y/you for your responses.  i'll be checking back.
 
-genvieve

_____________________________

In the quietness of myself, i find myself at the mercy of Your hand.

Musical Wishes Design

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Simple Versus Complex Demands - 6/26/2006 1:17:40 AM   
Sirandlittle1


Posts: 538
Joined: 12/22/2005
Status: offline 		I can understand the 'big picture submissive' title. Im one myself. In fact, that whole micromanagement is hard for me to bare. I particularly sought someone who's not into that side of things. It'd drive me bloody nuts!
If you Dom asks you to read collarme everyday to follow his threads for later discussion. Id see that as a request. Youve not completed the request. Now what? what are the consequences for you. Does the 'time' equate nicely to the 'crime'?
What are the consequences of doing this right?
Personally, im a 'high maintenance' submissive. The level of re-inforcement i require is huge. Unless im getting my needs met, i start to wander off track. That's the way i am. So because i know this of myself, i realise that on line, or via the phone, is not going to be enough to sustain my subbie feelings to someone past the play partner scenario. . i need right here, right now, living with me, constant access stuff. to take my submission out of the bedroom, but more importantly, keep it there.
House guests upset this in our relationship badly. I dont enjoy them. I dont enjoy being denied my special life that i require to make me fulfilled. By day 3, of no D/s stuff and im not talking just play here, im tetchy, irratable, out of sorts, and desparately need time alone with him. Im not less of a submissive coz im so high maintenance, im just me. And your just you.

Think about what He does to motivate you. Ask for his assistance with motivation.

If being told to do something, from a guy on the end of a phone doesnt do it for you, then perhaps you need a little extra help. From both yourself, by trying to address this within yourself, and from him to step up to the mark. Maybe neither of you are that motivated?

As for some are born submissive comment in this thread, well, i guess its possible. But not everyone's truth. Some of us are learning. Some have better teachers than others. Some have too many other things prioritised in their lives to be submissive in every waking moment.

If you're prioritising going to sleep for instance because your really tired. Why doesnt he know that? why couldnt you ask for a night off reading so that you can go to bed. You can get out of requests from your Dom. Dom's commands arent allways set in stone, and those that are, generally, are communicated as such. A legitamate need for sleep over pc reading time, is a reasonable request from a human to a human id say. A repeated excuse is something else though.

little1

(in reply to genvieve)
Profile   Post #: 20
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