NOTICE: ALL COMMUNICATION STORED BY US GOVERNMENT (Full Version)

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farglebargle -> NOTICE: ALL COMMUNICATION STORED BY US GOVERNMENT (5/5/2013 7:33:42 AM)

rms warned you, but you didn't listen. Now live with the fact that everything you say and do that CAN be recorded and stored, IS recorded and stored.

YOU HAVE NO PRIVACY.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/04/telephone-calls-recorded-fbi-boston

And exactly what are the crazies with AR-15's going to do to end this Government Takeover of their 4th Amendment Rights?

Nothing. They're impotent, despite their gun fetish.



Lucylastic -> RE: NOTICE: ALL COMMUNICATION STORED BY US GOVERNMENT (5/5/2013 7:47:31 AM)

Anyone surprised by this ????



egern -> RE: NOTICE: ALL COMMUNICATION STORED BY US GOVERNMENT (5/5/2013 8:11:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

rms warned you, but you didn't listen. Now live with the fact that everything you say and do that CAN be recorded and stored, IS recorded and stored.

YOU HAVE NO PRIVACY.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/04/telephone-calls-recorded-fbi-boston

And exactly what are the crazies with AR-15's going to do to end this Government Takeover of their 4th Amendment Rights?

Nothing. They're impotent, despite their gun fetish.


Nobody seems interested. Sheep. I guess that is how it happened, we all to a great extent have the government and the laws we deserve.



LizDeluxe -> RE: NOTICE: ALL COMMUNICATION STORED BY US GOVERNMENT (5/5/2013 8:22:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Anyone surprised by this ????


Surprised that one of P&R's staunchest leftists felt it necessary to target gun owners in his post about a story that has nothing to do with that?

No.




WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: NOTICE: ALL COMMUNICATION STORED BY US GOVERNMENT (5/5/2013 8:33:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
And exactly what are the crazies with AR-15's going to do to end this Government Takeover of their 4th Amendment Rights?

Nothing. They're impotent, despite their gun fetish.

do ya reckon folks should arm themselves wit machine guns & rpgs so?



Lucylastic -> RE: NOTICE: ALL COMMUNICATION STORED BY US GOVERNMENT (5/5/2013 8:39:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: egern


Nobody seems interested. Sheep. I guess that is how it happened, we all to a great extent have the government and the laws we deserve.


That genie has been out of the bottle since before 1995, and anyone who thinks you can get the genie back in the bottle are the sheep.
I cant vote for anyone in the US government... I havent voted for anyone in the UK government in 25 years, and I voted NDP in the last election in cCanada, yet, I do believe all three countries do the same thing.
DO I like it? not one bit... Can I change it, not a snowballs chance in hell... can I get off the grid? Probably, Do I want to? no.. So I live within the "confines of realism"



Lucylastic -> RE: NOTICE: ALL COMMUNICATION STORED BY US GOVERNMENT (5/5/2013 9:00:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LizDeluxe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Anyone surprised by this ????


Surprised that one of P&R's staunchest leftists felt it necessary to target gun owners in his post about a story that has nothing to do with that?

No.



I dont see all "gun owners" mentioned, just the " crazies with AR-15's"



farglebargle -> RE: NOTICE: ALL COMMUNICATION STORED BY US GOVERNMENT (5/5/2013 9:09:00 AM)

Anyone who advocates for a direct impingement action **SHOULD** have their heads examined. Especially given the clear benefits of a piston operated ( or even lever operated ) action to it...



ThatDaveGuy69 -> RE: NOTICE: ALL COMMUNICATION STORED BY US GOVERNMENT (5/5/2013 9:18:36 AM)

I don't believe Mr Clemente know of what he speaks. It's not the FBI listening in on everything we do, it's the NSA. And NOBODY talks about the NSA.



Lucylastic -> RE: NOTICE: ALL COMMUNICATION STORED BY US GOVERNMENT (5/5/2013 9:22:42 AM)

Is that like fight club rules?



Kaliko -> RE: NOTICE: ALL COMMUNICATION STORED BY US GOVERNMENT (5/5/2013 9:22:58 AM)

My first response to this was "I really don't care." And on a personal level, I really don't. If the government wants to hear me tell my sister about how long its been since I put away my laundry, have at it. It affects me not one bit.

But I've been going through a bit of a mind-shift lately. And so, while my first response was "I really don't care" my second response is "Hmm...but I wonder how much further it will go." And if something further were to bother me, then why doesn't this? Shouldn't this?

I'm about as laid back as one can be about government surveillance, but I'm starting to become uncomfortable.




kdsub -> RE: NOTICE: ALL COMMUNICATION STORED BY US GOVERNMENT (5/5/2013 9:28:06 AM)

Here you go.....

Application of the Fourth Amendment depends on whether the person invoking its protection can claim a "legitimate expectation of privacy" that has been invaded by government action. This inquiry normally embraces two questions: first, whether the individual has exhibited an actual (subjective) expectation of privacy; and second, whether his expectation is one that society is prepared to recognize as "reasonable." Katz v. United States, 389 U.S. 347 . Pp. 739-741.

Otherwise you cannot expect digital cell phone conversations and internet email, as examples, to be private. Therefore various law enforcement agencies can with simple subpoenas access this information... I agree... Don't be a dumbass and send information over the internet or airways and expect it to be private... you should know better.

Butch



vincentML -> RE: NOTICE: ALL COMMUNICATION STORED BY US GOVERNMENT (5/5/2013 9:31:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

rms warned you, but you didn't listen. Now live with the fact that everything you say and do that CAN be recorded and stored, IS recorded and stored.

YOU HAVE NO PRIVACY.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/04/telephone-calls-recorded-fbi-boston

And exactly what are the crazies with AR-15's going to do to end this Government Takeover of their 4th Amendment Rights?

Nothing. They're impotent, despite their gun fetish.

Okay. So the 4th Amendment protects against unreasonable searches and seizure. Are 1.7 billion daily message storages a violation of the 4th? Perhaps, if a particlular conversation is introduced into court evidence without a warrent.

But look, Privacy is only implied in the Constitution. If you stand on your front porch and fling a hammer at your neighbor does that act carry a presumption of privacy? Or suppose you are having a conversation over the fence with your neighbor and it is overheard is that a violation of your Privacy? So, to play devil's advocate here, why do you presume Privacy when you have electronic conversations that leave your castle?



freedomdwarf1 -> RE: NOTICE: ALL COMMUNICATION STORED BY US GOVERNMENT (5/5/2013 9:32:58 AM)

FR~

I really don't give a shit at all.
If the government or any other agency wants to listen in or watch, I have nothing to fear and it won't change what I do or say one iota.
They said the same thing about ID cards when they wanted to indroduce them.
Like I give a fuck?? Sheeesh!

The only people that fear this sort of thing are the criminals and the terrorists and those that have something to hide.
And seeing as I'm neither one nor t'other - I really really don't give a damn.

Let them spy. They might find something entertaining [:D]



ThatDaveGuy69 -> RE: NOTICE: ALL COMMUNICATION STORED BY US GOVERNMENT (5/5/2013 9:38:57 AM)

The problem with the above is multifold:
1) We have, in America, always considered our phone calls to be private/personal. The mere fact that the medium of transmission has changed should not alter that expectation.
2) This is even more true of our traditional mail/postal system. And again, just because the medium has changed and it is significantly easier to read what we write to each is no reason the government should have any greater access.
3) The need for a warrant/subpoena has been rendered null & void any time some federal agent deems it necessary. Warrants are now handled by a secret judge with no disclosure and no accountability. Indeed, the subject of the warrant is often not informed and when they are they are prohibited from talking about it.
4) There is a provision in a Telecomm act from about 20 years ago that makes it illegal for citizens to listen-in on cell phone conversations. The act even prohibits using a signal strength meter to determine if any given cell tower is running at a higher wattage than allowed by law. This law does not apply to LEO's.

The 1st phone mfg to include PGP-style encryption will corner the market. Right up until the government stops them.



kdsub -> RE: NOTICE: ALL COMMUNICATION STORED BY US GOVERNMENT (5/5/2013 9:40:31 AM)

quote:

Perhaps, if a particlular conversation is introduced into court evidence without a warrent.


Not true... The Supreme court has ruled that cell conversations and emails do NOT need a warrant to access and are perfectly admissible in court.

Butch



kdsub -> RE: NOTICE: ALL COMMUNICATION STORED BY US GOVERNMENT (5/5/2013 9:41:57 AM)

Dave the supreme court disagrees with you. What can we say unless there is another ruling?


Butch



kdsub -> RE: NOTICE: ALL COMMUNICATION STORED BY US GOVERNMENT (5/5/2013 9:46:17 AM)

THIS ruling is the basis for procedures used today concerning cell phone and internet communications.

Bottom line... you should not expect absolute privacy when you KNOW your communication will be going through a third or multiple parties.

Butch



fucktoyprincess -> RE: NOTICE: ALL COMMUNICATION STORED BY US GOVERNMENT (5/5/2013 10:50:23 AM)

This is unbelievably Orwellian, and for obvious reasons troubling. In this post 9/11 society, I feel government takes the approach that anything goes when it comes to "national security, even if it means compromising the rights of ordinary citizens.

Those who feel this is not a big deal should consider the following. Laws and popular opinion are never fixed in time. What is legal and acceptable today, may not be tomorrow. Your life as you lead it today, that you feel does not run afoul of the law in any way - well that could easily change depending on the legal landscape. There was a time when anti-sodomy laws were routinely on the books in many states. Does this mean a married couple who speaks about anal sex on the phone should be prosecuted under such laws? Should they have any expectation of privacy to their telephone conversations? And again, while today, maybe we don't fear being persecuted for whatever our interests are, that can all shift in a second. And from a technology point of view - it is already too late. Big Brother is watching. Welcome to the new order.....



kdsub -> RE: NOTICE: ALL COMMUNICATION STORED BY US GOVERNMENT (5/5/2013 12:24:14 PM)

This ruling was 20 years BEFORE 9/11



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