North Carolina wants to Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill (Full Version)

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Lucylastic -> North Carolina wants to Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill (4/3/2013 7:49:39 AM)

Republican North Carolina state legislators have proposed allowing an official state religion in a measure that would declare the state exempt from the Constitution and court rulings.

The bill, filed Monday by two GOP lawmakers from Rowan County and backed by nine other Republicans, says each state "is sovereign" and courts cannot block a state "from making laws respecting an establishment of religion." The legislation was filed in response to a lawsuit to stop county commissioners in Rowan County from opening meetings with a Christian prayer, wral.com reported.

The religion bill comes as some Republican-led states seek to separate themselves from the federal government, primarily on the issues of guns and Obamacare. This includes a proposal in Mississippi to establish a state board with the power to nullify federal laws.

The North Carolina bill's main sponsors, state Reps. Carl Ford (R-China Grove) and Harry Warren (R-Salisbury), could not be reached for comment on Tuesday, The Salisbury Post reported. Co-sponsors include House Majority Leader Edgar Starnes (R-Hickory). Another is state Rep. Larry Pittman (R-Concord), who in February introduced a state constitutional amendment that would allow for carrying concealed weapons to fight federal "tyranny."

The bill says the First Amendment only applies to the federal government and does not stop state governments, local governments and school districts from adopting measures that defy the Constitution. The legislation also says that the Tenth Amendment, which says powers not reserved for the federal government belong to the states, prohibits court rulings that would seek to apply the First Amendment to state and local officials.

The bill reads:

SECTION 1. The North Carolina General Assembly asserts that the Constitution of the United States of America does not prohibit states or their subsidiaries from making laws respecting an establishment of religion.
SECTION 2. The North Carolina General Assembly does not recognize federal court rulings which prohibit and otherwise regulate the State of North Carolina, its public schools, or any political subdivisions of the State from making laws respecting an establishment of religion.


The North Carolina state constitution disqualifies those who do not believe in God from public office. The provision has been unenforcible since the 1961 Supreme Court decision in Torcaso v. Watkins, which prohibited such bans.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/03/north-carolina-religion-bill_n_3003401.html



ok and theres a first amendment why?



Aylee -> RE: North Carolina wants to Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill (4/3/2013 7:52:22 AM)

Before the passage of the 14th, this would have been allowed.



FunCouple5280 -> RE: North Carolina wants to Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill (4/3/2013 7:56:11 AM)

And this is why NC will flip to a Blue state in the near future. The voters have been wavering swing for awhile. With this totalitarian religious crap, it will flip the electorate for good. sure they believe being armed fights tyranny, maybe the people will use them overthrow these douche theocrats.



tweakabelle -> RE: North Carolina wants to Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill (4/3/2013 7:57:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Before the passage of the 14th, this would have been allowed.

Shouldn't someone tell that to those misguided GOP reps in NC? It seems they agree with the Islamic view that religion and State shouldn't be separated.



mnottertail -> RE: North Carolina wants to Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill (4/3/2013 8:00:23 AM)

LOL, the fuckin teabaggers are inept and hilarious at the same instant.  Thats why we are never gonna let these people run this country.



Aylee -> RE: North Carolina wants to Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill (4/3/2013 8:03:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Before the passage of the 14th, this would have been allowed.

Shouldn't someone tell that to those misguided GOP reps in NC?

Sheeeeeet! I thought that is what 8th grade civics was for.

Frankly there are a lot of idiotic bills that come to state legisiators. What the ulterior motive of this bill is, I have no idea. It is pointless and will not pass.



FunCouple5280 -> RE: North Carolina wants to Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill (4/3/2013 8:06:40 AM)

the ulterior motive: ban abortion, keep women from working, and ensure their place in heaven...it brings a tear to your eye when you see such bravery in though [8|]



Lucylastic -> RE: North Carolina wants to Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill (4/3/2013 8:07:29 AM)

what is the cost of a bill to go thru a state only to be rebuffed? anyone have the info available so I dont have to google?



Nosathro -> RE: North Carolina wants to Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill (4/3/2013 8:31:04 AM)

And some people complain that Demcrates



Aylee -> RE: North Carolina wants to Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill (4/3/2013 9:25:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

what is the cost of a bill to go thru a state only to be rebuffed? anyone have the info available so I dont have to google?

I think that it would vary from state to state and vary with how serious the bill is taken. For something like this where the purpose is not so much to pass it but to make some sort of statement the cost is minimal.



Politesub53 -> RE: North Carolina wants to Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill (4/3/2013 12:04:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

LOL, the fuckin teabaggers are inept and hilarious at the same instant.  Thats why we are never gonna let these people run this country.



They make UKIP look mainstream..........



DesideriScuri -> RE: North Carolina wants to Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill (4/3/2013 12:44:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Republican North Carolina state legislators have proposed allowing an official state religion in a measure that would declare the state exempt from the Constitution and court rulings.
The bill, filed Monday by two GOP lawmakers from Rowan County and backed by nine other Republicans, says each state "is sovereign" and courts cannot block a state "from making laws respecting an establishment of religion." The legislation was filed in response to a lawsuit to stop county commissioners in Rowan County from opening meetings with a Christian prayer, wral.com reported.
The religion bill comes as some Republican-led states seek to separate themselves from the federal government, primarily on the issues of guns and Obamacare. This includes a proposal in Mississippi to establish a state board with the power to nullify federal laws.
The North Carolina bill's main sponsors, state Reps. Carl Ford (R-China Grove) and Harry Warren (R-Salisbury), could not be reached for comment on Tuesday, The Salisbury Post reported. Co-sponsors include House Majority Leader Edgar Starnes (R-Hickory). Another is state Rep. Larry Pittman (R-Concord), who in February introduced a state constitutional amendment that would allow for carrying concealed weapons to fight federal "tyranny."
The bill says the First Amendment only applies to the federal government and does not stop state governments, local governments and school districts from adopting measures that defy the Constitution. The legislation also says that the Tenth Amendment, which says powers not reserved for the federal government belong to the states, prohibits court rulings that would seek to apply the First Amendment to state and local officials.
The bill reads:
SECTION 1. The North Carolina General Assembly asserts that the Constitution of the United States of America does not prohibit states or their subsidiaries from making laws respecting an establishment of religion.
SECTION 2. The North Carolina General Assembly does not recognize federal court rulings which prohibit and otherwise regulate the State of North Carolina, its public schools, or any political subdivisions of the State from making laws respecting an establishment of religion.
The North Carolina state constitution disqualifies those who do not believe in God from public office. The provision has been unenforcible since the 1961 Supreme Court decision in Torcaso v. Watkins, which prohibited such bans.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/03/north-carolina-religion-bill_n_3003401.html
ok and theres a first amendment why?


I applaud those NC legislators. They are taking a stand for what they believe in.

It's un-Constitutional as fuck, but, they sure are putting up a good effort. The maroons...



Charles6682 -> RE: North Carolina wants to Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill (4/3/2013 1:16:55 PM)

This sounds like a hate group trying to push their beliefs on to others.This proves these "bible belt" states have no respect for the U.S Constituation,except for the second amendment.These are traitors to the federal government as far as I am concerned.Starting to sound more like Iran than a "free country".



FunCouple5280 -> RE: North Carolina wants to Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill (4/3/2013 1:25:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682

This sounds like a hate group trying to push their beliefs on to others.This proves these "bible belt" states have no respect for the U.S Constituation,except for the second amendment.These are traitors to the federal government as far as I am concerned.Starting to sound more like Iran than a "free country".



Read it though, they believe the 2nd arms people to defend against tyranny. They are engaging in tyranny. Maybe the irony is lost here, but aren't they inviting assassination?



MrRodgers -> RE: North Carolina wants to Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill (4/3/2013 3:39:12 PM)

So how soon before we them try to re-invoke slavery ? How soon before we see police beating confessions, ALL minorities denied the vote ?

This isn't just about establishing religion. This is about tearing up the bill of rights and the rest of the amends.

A sort of constitutional secession.



muhly22222 -> RE: North Carolina wants to Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill (4/3/2013 5:05:16 PM)

quote:

The bill says the First Amendment only applies to the federal government and does not stop state governments, local governments and school districts from adopting measures that defy the Constitution. The legislation also says that the Tenth Amendment, which says powers not reserved for the federal government belong to the states, prohibits court rulings that would seek to apply the First Amendment to state and local officials.


This is true. Provided that we're in 1865.

Oh, it's 2013? The 14th Amendment applied most of the provisions in the Bill of Rights to the states (the only ones that haven't been are the quartering of soldiers, the grand jury requirement, and the right to a jury in a civil trial).

Additionally, there's a very old Supreme Court case that established the principle of judicial review of state laws and court decisions (when they fell within the federal purview). I believe it's Martin v. Hunter's Lessee, and it's a case that came out of Virginia. A very important case, too...can you imagine what the United States would look like if each state was free to disregard whichever laws it felt like? My first instinct is to say...not very united.

And the 10th Amendment? Under current law, it's utterly meaningless. I do have some problem with that...it's a Constitutional Amendment, for fuck's sake. We shouldn't simply ignore it. There are a number of powers that are nowhere in the Constitution that should be left to the individual states to take the solution that they feel best fits their needs (regulating health care, for one), and the state can deal with the consequences of their decisions in those areas.

As for this proposal...without knowing very much about North Carolina politics, I'd imagine that it was just done for posturing. Those 9 legislators can go home in 2014 or 2016 (or whenever their next election is) and tell their constituents "We tried. The atheists stopped us from protecting your religious rights." And they'll probably be re-elected. I know that if my local state representative tried something like that, they'd get re-elected (though not with my vote).



MrRodgers -> RE: North Carolina wants to Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill (4/3/2013 5:57:25 PM)

So how soon before they try to re-invoke slavery ? How soon before we see police beating confessions, ALL minorities denied the vote ?

This isn't just about establishing religion. This is about tearing up the bill of rights and the rest of the amends.

A sort of constitutional secession.




DesideriScuri -> RE: North Carolina wants to Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill (4/3/2013 6:44:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682
This sounds like a hate group trying to push their beliefs on to others.This proves these "bible belt" states have no respect for the U.S Constituation,except for the second amendment.These are traitors to the federal government as far as I am concerned.Starting to sound more like Iran than a "free country".


So, STATE Senators writing legislation for the STATE are traitors to the Federal Government?!? They are acting on beliefs (wrong in their beliefs, IMO) that the States are separate from the Federal Government and aren't limited under the US Constitution and it's Amendments, unless explicitly stated. Not traitorous at all.

Now, as has been so well stated by others, the 14th Amendment ties the BoR (and other things) to State Governments. Thus, they are wrong in their beliefs. Until that can be proven to them, they aren't traitors. Just waaaaay off base.



Edwynn -> RE: North Carolina wants to Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill (4/3/2013 7:05:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

The legislation was filed in response to a lawsuit to stop county commissioners in Rowan County from opening meetings with a Christian prayer, wral.com reported.




Don't let that minor detail of reality stop you from slandering the whole state, sweetie.

Such inconvenience has never stopped bigots before, nor will it likely ever.



dcnovice -> RE: North Carolina wants to Declare Official State Religion Under New Bill (4/3/2013 7:07:15 PM)

FR

The truly amazing aspect to all this is that we actually fought a war to hold on to these people.

Love ya, Abe, but what were you thinking?!



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