Fiscal Cliff For Dummies

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LizDeluxe -> Fiscal Cliff For Dummies (1/1/2013 6:00:32 PM)
I saw this posted on a blog and it is very sobering when you condense it down to an everyman level: ****************************************** US Tax Revenue: $2,170,000,000,000 Federal Budget: $3,820,000,000,000 New Debt: $1,650,000,000,000 National Debt: $14,271,000,000,000 Recent Budget Cuts: $38,500,000,000 Let's now remove 8 trailing zeros from the amounts and pretend that it is a hosuehold budget: Annual family income: $21,700 Money the family spent: $38,200 New debt on credit cards; $16,500 Outsanding credit card balance: $142,710 Recent cuts to family budget: $385 ****************************************** No soapbox. I just thought it was interesting to see these sometimes incomprehensible and mind boggling figures presented in an everyday manner.

Owner59 -> RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies (1/1/2013 8:52:12 PM)
Worry not......the adults will fix it.

Yachtie -> RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies (1/1/2013 8:59:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Worry not......the adults will fix it. It wasn't children who caused it.

Owner59 -> RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies (1/1/2013 10:01:37 PM)
This manufactured crisis was created two years ago by your party....when your party caused another manufactured crisis,threatening to shut the government down ,trying to blackmail your extreme agenda through.Then ended up fucking our historically high and hard earned, AAA credit rating. J-boner and your boy-wonder Paul Ryan also created the sequester and signed it.....two years ago.... That,........is where the time-line starts.

jlf1961 -> RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies (1/1/2013 10:20:08 PM)
Uh, the house passed the bill to keep us from going over the cliff

Owner59 -> RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies (1/1/2013 10:42:57 PM)
Boehner: No Comment.. No Time Left.. GOP Caves.. GOP 'Crazy But Not Batsh*t Crazy'.. Republicans Confused [sm=dancer.gif]

tj444 -> RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies (1/1/2013 10:48:15 PM)
well whoop dee doo! So they signed a dam bill.. how long for this time? doesnt sound like very long at all, 2 months? Seriously? [&:] "For instance, when and how will lawmakers raise the country's debt ceiling→ From all indications, the coming fight in February could be ugly. The legislation also creates a new cliff deadline over spending cuts around the same time the debt ceiling will need to be raised." http://finance.yahoo.com/news/senate-bill-stops-many-tax-072700133.html

defiantbadgirl -> RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies (1/2/2013 5:48:28 AM)
Hopefully at the next opportunity, Republicans will be voted out and Democrats will re-take the house. Then we can cut spending in areas that won't hurt the poor.

Yachtie -> RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies (1/2/2013 6:23:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl Then we can cut spending in areas that won't hurt the poor. Doesn't exist.

mnottertail -> RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies (1/2/2013 6:28:12 AM)
I am in agreement, there will have to be some reform in entitlements, but we could lop a shitload off the military, and I think that we could also get alot of money in reform of corporate welfare, and going to single payer universal and have the government wholesale buy and resell our medications as most civilized countries do, there are many economies of scale that we have ignored to our detriment as a nation.

slvemike4u -> RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies (1/2/2013 7:15:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl Hopefully at the next opportunity, Republicans will be voted out and Democrats will re-take the house. Then we can cut spending in areas that won't hurt the poor. That can't and won't happen ...these Republicans represent gerrymandered districts,they suffer no risk at all come election time.

Owner59 -> RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies (1/2/2013 7:58:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl Then we can cut spending in areas that won't hurt the poor. Doesn't exist. Doesn`t matter. Everyone knew who losers would be and who the winners would be. NO ONE accept the coolaid/"tea" drinkers are upset that taxes on the wealthy went up. We just went over this and voters decided what they wanted. Btw,if your taxes went up.....I`m elated. Adam Smith: "it is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion"

Yachtie -> RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies (1/2/2013 10:43:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl Then we can cut spending in areas that won't hurt the poor. Doesn't exist. Doesn`t matter. Everyone knew who losers would be and who the winners would be. NO ONE accept the coolaid/"tea" drinkers are upset that taxes on the wealthy went up. We just went over this and voters decided what they wanted. Btw,if your taxes went up.....I`m elated. Adam Smith: "it is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion" You just don't get it!

DesideriScuri -> RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies (1/2/2013 10:51:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Adam Smith: "it is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion" It's nice to see you quote Adam Smith, but at what proportion to their revenue are they to contribute, and how much more? Is the proportion equal to all people, and then the rich should contribute more? How much do the top 1% earn, and how much of the total income tax revenue do they pay? How much do the top 50% earn, and how much of the total income tax revenue do they pay? How much do the bottom 50% earn, and how much of the total income tax revenue do they pay?

tazzygirl -> RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies (1/2/2013 11:10:42 AM)
quote: How much do the bottom 50% earn, and how much of the total income tax revenue do they pay? they make below poverty level... not enough to live on.......how much should they pay? Many pay in and get it back at the end of the year. Why are they not making interest on that? The government gets to use their money, free of charge. People in this tax bracket use refund checks as a savings account. Its actually a win win for both them and the government.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies (1/2/2013 3:19:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: How much do the bottom 50% earn, and how much of the total income tax revenue do they pay? they make below poverty level... not enough to live on.......how much should they pay? That was part of my point. So, what you are saying, is that "being poor" is their contribution to Adam Smith's "public expense." quote: Many pay in and get it back at the end of the year. Why are they not making interest on that? The government gets to use their money, free of charge. People in this tax bracket use refund checks as a savings account. Its actually a win win for both them and the government. Come on, Tazzy. You're better at math than that. I'm sure you are or have been employed, so you filled out a W-2, where you claimed 'x' number of exemptions. Those exemptions are used to determine your withholding. Raise your claimed exemptions, and government doesn't get to use that money free of charge. Yes, you'll have a smaller refund, or might actually have to pay taxes, but you'd have your money to use as you see fit, provided you put enough aside to "pay the piper." If you are shrewd, you could add one exemption per year until your refund or tax was as small as possible. Dave Ramsey calls paying more than you could if you made easy changes, a "stupid tax."

mnottertail -> RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies (1/2/2013 3:27:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Adam Smith: "it is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion" It's nice to see you quote Adam Smith, but at what proportion to their revenue are they to contribute, and how much more? Is the proportion equal to all people, and then the rich should contribute more? How much do the top 1% earn, and how much of the total income tax revenue do they pay? How much do the top 50% earn, and how much of the total income tax revenue do they pay? How much do the bottom 50% earn, and how much of the total income tax revenue do they pay? Adam Smith has been misread by any 'conservative' that ever read him. Since he was the big cheese customs man for England during the revolutionary war era, perhaps you can pencil it out for yourself with that information, he didn't play these bullshit percentage games in order to deflect from realities, he was well aware of the divisions that naturally exist in the classes. Some folks are born, silver spoon in hand, Ohhhhh, they send you down to war, and when you ask them, "How much should we give" Ohhhhhh, they only answer, "More, more, more." He was fairly satisfied that the pittance in taxes paid by the poor was offset by the fact that those were the ones called on to go to war, and the rich could buy their way out, or get the plum puddn.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies (1/2/2013 3:56:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Adam Smith has been misread by any 'conservative' that ever read him. Since he was the big cheese customs man for England during the revolutionary war era, perhaps you can pencil it out for yourself with that information, he didn't play these bullshit percentage games in order to deflect from realities, he was well aware of the divisions that naturally exist in the classes. Some folks are born, silver spoon in hand, Ohhhhh, they send you down to war, and when you ask them, "How much should we give" Ohhhhhh, they only answer, "More, more, more." He was fairly satisfied that the pittance in taxes paid by the poor was offset by the fact that those were the ones called on to go to war, and the rich could buy their way out, or get the plum puddn. Not surprisingly, you didn't answer any of my questions. And, if your last sentence is accurate, how's that correlate today? "The Poor" aren't necessarily the ones sent into war. Since the draft was ended, they couldn't be forced to go, either.

tazzygirl -> RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies (1/2/2013 4:56:55 PM)
quote: Come on, Tazzy. You're better at math than that. I'm sure you are or have been employed, so you filled out a W-2, where you claimed 'x' number of exemptions. Those exemptions are used to determine your withholding. Raise your claimed exemptions, and government doesn't get to use that money free of charge. Yes, you'll have a smaller refund, or might actually have to pay taxes, but you'd have your money to use as you see fit, provided you put enough aside to "pay the piper." If you are shrewd, you could add one exemption per year until your refund or tax was as small as possible. Come on.... its far better to get one big check then to get it spread out over the 12 months. Again, a win win for the tax payer and the government. Saying the 50% dont pay in is extremely misleading. quote: Dave Ramsey calls paying more than you could if you made easy changes, a "stupid tax." From a middle class standpoint, he may be right.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Fiscal Cliff For Dummies (1/2/2013 5:24:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: Come on, Tazzy. You're better at math than that. I'm sure you are or have been employed, so you filled out a W-2, where you claimed 'x' number of exemptions. Those exemptions are used to determine your withholding. Raise your claimed exemptions, and government doesn't get to use that money free of charge. Yes, you'll have a smaller refund, or might actually have to pay taxes, but you'd have your money to use as you see fit, provided you put enough aside to "pay the piper." If you are shrewd, you could add one exemption per year until your refund or tax was as small as possible. Come on.... its far better to get one big check then to get it spread out over the 12 months. Again, a win win for the tax payer and the government. Saying the 50% dont pay in is extremely misleading. Nowhere in this thread did I say any of that, so I'm not sure who mislead you. quote: quote: Dave Ramsey calls paying more than you could if you made easy changes, a "stupid tax." From a middle class standpoint, he may be right. He usually is. Just wish I could follow his recommendations. But, it's a new year and a new attempt at it.

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