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OK she's a good college player but ahh she's a man! - 12/7/2012 7:49:45 PM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
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Status: offline 		So let me get this err straight...

Gabrielle Ludwig age 50, 6'8" former male college player is set to become the greatest women's college player in the State of California??? And more so... "she" is challenge some kind of injustice that's going on where 50 year old men are not allowed to play junior college basketball with 18-19 year old girls???

Really?

Gabrielle Ludwig, Transgender Basketball Player, Makes Championship Game Debut





< Message edited by FatDomDaddy -- 12/7/2012 8:02:37 PM >
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RE: OK she's a good college player but ahh she's a man! - 12/7/2012 8:06:19 PM   
jlf1961


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Status: offline 		Sorry but I am not getting into this one.

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RE: OK she's a good college player but ahh she's a man! - 12/7/2012 9:12:07 PM   
VioletGray


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Status: offline 		I'm conflicted about this one. Because on the one hand having grown up male-bodied she got the advantage of male hormones to make her 6'8, and the musculature. On the other hand, there are women who are that tall, and after a while trans women do lose that male strength advantage. I don't know how long it was since she's transitioned.

Fatdomdaddy, your overall tone does across as condescending and disrespectful. You are perfectly within your rights to not consider her a woman, it's your brain but you just had to put "male" in bold letters. And with the "50 year old man with 19 year old girls" comment you act like she's some pervert that managed to squeeze through a peep hole in the women's shower. Being 50 in a cardio-driven sport with 19 year olds is a handicap.

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RE: OK she's a good college player but ahh she's a man! - 12/7/2012 9:18:25 PM   
DomKen


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If she has normal female levels of hormones and has never used up her college eligibility I really can't see an issue with her playing.

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RE: OK she's a good college player but ahh she's a man! - 12/7/2012 9:38:53 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
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Status: offline 		1. She's not a man. She USED TO BE a man, which is something altogether different.
2. The article did not say how she transitioned. Calling her a transgender is vague - that could mean anything from a crossdresser to an actual transsexual. In her case, she's a post-op transsexual - she's taken hormones and she has had SRS, per this article.
3. The article also didn't mention how the teams consider gender to be determined. From the link I posted, it's implied that legal identity is the sole criterion. That makes sense because it's the strongest position legally.
4. Note that this is very similar to the Renee Richards case, in which a TS female tennis player sued to be permitted to compete with women.

I'm conflicted on this case as well. On the one hand, I want to see TSs treated fairly. On the other hand, let's face it - men play at such a higher level than women that a TS has advantages even after reducing testosterone, taking female hormones, etc.

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RE: OK she's a good college player but ahh she's a man! - 12/7/2012 10:10:38 PM   
stellauk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Really?



Yes really.

Not sure what you think you're trying to achieve by going out of your way to emphasize the fact that she's transgendered and used to be a man and the fact that - according to you (who doesn't share her reality) she is still a man.

What you are actually achieving each and every time that you point this out when it comes to Gabrielle or any other 'trans' person is that you are making a statement to others highlighting how ignorant you are and also how insecure you feel with your own identity.

Via this message board you have taken yet another opportunity to share your ignorance and insecurities with everyone here and the world. Go back and read your OP - they're your words, you wrote them, you own them.

The issue doesn't lie with Gabrielle, does it? It lies with you.

I don't have an issue with what you have written in your OP, I really don't. You're not the first person I've come across with these issues, you're certainly not going to be the last.

I hope you don't mind me holding up this mirror and shining it back at you showing you your ignorance and insecurities, but it's no different to you dragging up the past and throwing this woman's gender issues (which, unlike you, she's made the effort to work on and address) back in her face.



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RE: OK she's a good college player but ahh she's a man! - 12/8/2012 9:35:18 AM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: VioletGray

I'm conflicted about this one. Because on the one hand having grown up male-bodied she got the advantage of male hormones to make her 6'8, and the musculature. On the other hand, there are women who are that tall, and after a while trans women do lose that male strength advantage. I don't know how long it was since she's transitioned.

Fatdomdaddy, your overall tone does across as condescending and disrespectful. You are perfectly within your rights to not consider her a woman, it's your brain but you just had to put "male" in bold letters. And with the "50 year old man with 19 year old girls" comment you act like she's some pervert that managed to squeeze through a peep hole in the women's shower. Being 50 in a cardio-driven sport with 19 year olds is a handicap.



That's not the case at all... simply put this person was a male college basketball player, with clearly a love for the game and if you read up about her/him you will see at 50, the basketball skills did not diminish, most likely because he/she has been a regular baller over the years.

My point is she's a male on a women's team!

Now Mission College is not governed by the NCAA but ca mon.... what's next? Male athletes identifying as female athletes ruin and diminish women's sports! How far do you let this charade go?

And no Violet, I don't he/she is handicapped by being 50 in a cardio driven sport. For one, this isn't trying to make the UConn Division One's Team (Though I'm not going to put it past Geno Auriemma to start recruiting in that direction) but second, every picture of this player shows an extremely fit person who has clearly kept up the game over thirty years. Finally, it is about her/his own words;

"It's about more because I see an injustice"

So again I ask, what kind of injustice that's going on where 50 year old "former" men are not allowed to play junior college basketball with 18-19 year old girls???

< Message edited by FatDomDaddy -- 12/8/2012 10:04:34 AM >

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RE: OK she's a good college player but ahh she's a man! - 12/8/2012 9:41:15 AM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stellauk
Not sure what you think you're trying to achieve by going out of your way to emphasize the fact that she's transgendered and used to be a man and the fact that - according to you (who doesn't share her reality) she is still a man.



It's simple, the Mission College Women's Basketball Program is cheating when it uses a male player, especially one with a skilled 6' 8" 220 lb with a massive arm span playing against a bunch of junior college 18 and 19 year olds.


< Message edited by FatDomDaddy -- 12/8/2012 9:48:40 AM >

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RE: OK she's a good college player but ahh she's a man! - 12/8/2012 10:39:08 AM   
stellauk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

It's simple, the Mission College Women's Basketball Program is cheating when it uses a male player, especially one with a skilled 6' 8" 220 lb with a massive arm span playing against a bunch of junior college 18 and 19 year olds.



Because women can't ever be as good as men when playing basketball, because they're inferior, right?



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RE: OK she's a good college player but ahh she's a man! - 12/8/2012 11:07:17 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: VioletGray

I'm conflicted about this one. Because on the one hand having grown up male-bodied she got the advantage of male hormones to make her 6'8, and the musculature. On the other hand, there are women who are that tall, and after a while trans women do lose that male strength advantage. I don't know how long it was since she's transitioned.

Fatdomdaddy, your overall tone does across as condescending and disrespectful. You are perfectly within your rights to not consider her a woman, it's your brain but you just had to put "male" in bold letters. And with the "50 year old man with 19 year old girls" comment you act like she's some pervert that managed to squeeze through a peep hole in the women's shower. Being 50 in a cardio-driven sport with 19 year olds is a handicap.



That's not the case at all... simply put this person was a male college basketball player, with clearly a love for the game and if you read up about her/him you will see at 50, the basketball skills did not diminish, most likely because he/she has been a regular baller over the years.

My point is she's a male on a women's team!

Now Mission College is not governed by the NCAA but ca mon.... what's next? Male athletes identifying as female athletes ruin and diminish women's sports! How far do you let this charade go?

And no Violet, I don't he/she is handicapped by being 50 in a cardio driven sport. For one, this isn't trying to make the UConn Division One's Team (Though I'm not going to put it past Geno Auriemma to start recruiting in that direction) but second, every picture of this player shows an extremely fit person who has clearly kept up the game over thirty years. Finally, it is about her/his own words;

"It's about more because I see an injustice"

So again I ask, what kind of injustice that's going on where 50 year old "former" men are not allowed to play junior college basketball with 18-19 year old girls???


Nope, FDD. While you may have your own definition of gender, the teams evidently go by legal ID. So she's female. Sorry if that bothers you.



_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: OK she's a good college player but ahh she's a man! - 12/8/2012 12:14:18 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stellauk

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

It's simple, the Mission College Women's Basketball Program is cheating when it uses a male player, especially one with a skilled 6' 8" 220 lb with a massive arm span playing against a bunch of junior college 18 and 19 year olds.



Because women can't ever be as good as men when playing basketball, because they're inferior, right?




Not inferior... DIFFERENT.

Men and women are DIFFERENT.

Edit...

As I think of it.... as football players, as basketball players, as baseball players, as hockey players, as sprinters, pole vaulters, shot putters, golfers, distance runners, weight lifters and skiers... in just about every athletic endeavor, women have inferior skills to their male counterparts.

There is nothing wrong with that, it is they way we are built as species but it is the law of nature.

There is a reason men and women on almost all competitive sporting levels from High School to the Olympics compete seperately



< Message edited by FatDomDaddy -- 12/8/2012 12:28:17 PM >

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RE: OK she's a good college player but ahh she's a man! - 12/8/2012 12:18:33 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven


Nope, FDD. While you may have your own definition of gender, the teams evidently go by legal ID. So she's female. Sorry if that bothers you.





Legal definitions change, DS. So... "legally" today she is a woman. Biologically, she was and always will be a male.

Mission College is cheating and PC politics is allowing it

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RE: OK she's a good college player but ahh she's a man! - 12/8/2012 12:26:21 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Legal definitions change, DS. So... "legally" today she is a woman. Biologically, she was and always will be a male.

Mission College is cheating and PC politics is allowing it


She has breasts and female genitals. What kind of man has those? I sure as hell don't.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: OK she's a good college player but ahh she's a man! - 12/8/2012 12:30:21 PM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
Joined: 1/31/2004
Status: offline 		She has a surgically created genitalia and breasts. If you wanted DS you could have them too.


< Message edited by FatDomDaddy -- 12/8/2012 12:38:48 PM >

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RE: OK she's a good college player but ahh she's a man! - 12/8/2012 12:31:28 PM   
Fellow


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quote:

If she has normal female levels of hormones and has never used up her college eligibility I really can't see an issue with her playing.


Hormones do not play basketball. The universities are micro models of liberal society. Because of the "political correction" and "sensitivity" issues the officials are loosing their sanity. I do not blame the transgendered person, he just needs attention and "approval".

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RE: OK she's a good college player but ahh she's a man! - 12/8/2012 12:34:52 PM   
searching4mysir


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven


quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Legal definitions change, DS. So... "legally" today she is a woman. Biologically, she was and always will be a male.

Mission College is cheating and PC politics is allowing it


She has breasts and female genitals. What kind of man has those? I sure as hell don't.




She purchased those with surgery and pharmaceuticals. She will always have XY chromosomes making her biologically male. There is no surgery to fix that, regardless of which gender she identifies with. I think that is the point that FDD is getting at and why he insists on calling her male.

< Message edited by searching4mysir -- 12/8/2012 12:35:27 PM >

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RE: OK she's a good college player but ahh she's a man! - 12/8/2012 1:38:16 PM   
stellauk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Not inferior... DIFFERENT.

Men and women are DIFFERENT.



Really? Well bugger me, who'd have thought so?

[/sarcasm]

Please disregard my posts and forgive me for contributing to this thread because it's clear you only started it to broadcast your rather rigid, fixed but ignorant opinion to others.

Carry on and have fun.

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RE: OK she's a good college player but ahh she's a man! - 12/8/2012 8:09:25 PM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
Joined: 1/31/2004
Status: offline 		Obviously you do not think so...

But nothing changes the fact that a 6' 8, 220 50 year old male with a seven foot arm span and surgically created genitalia and breasts, who was made female by legislation not biology, is playing competitive college basketball with 18 and 19 year old women.


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RE: OK she's a good college player but ahh she's a man! - 12/8/2012 8:30:45 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

So let me get this err straight...



I think that it's obvious that you have your red alert "what can I find to really piss me off today" filter on at all times, and that this filter works really well for you.


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RE: OK she's a good college player but ahh she's a man! - 12/8/2012 8:48:31 PM   
UnholyBear


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven


Nope, FDD. While you may have your own definition of gender, the teams evidently go by legal ID. So she's female. Sorry if that bothers you.





Biologically, she was and always will be a male.




I call supreme bullshit on this.

So you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that she is a biological male and that you have the results of a DNA test to prove this?



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