Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: GDP ....really?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: GDP ....really? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: GDP ....really? - 10/31/2012 8:17:08 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Since we are spending ALL of our revenues and then some by several orders of magnitude...  you can laugh like woody woodpecker and slobber like cujo, but you are not impressing anyone with your equivocation fallacy is plain to anyone who can read at a 3rd grade level.

 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: GDP ....really? - 10/31/2012 8:28:46 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Where does the money from the production go if none of it is being produced domestically?


Imports (foreign production) are a negative as those costs flow ~overseas.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: GDP ....really? - 10/31/2012 8:32:41 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Since we are spending ALL of our revenues and then some by several orders of magnitude...  you can laugh like woody woodpecker and slobber like cujo, but you are not impressing anyone with your equivocation fallacy is plain to anyone who can read at a 3rd grade level.
 





edit: It's quite evident any discussion with you is pointless.

< Message edited by Yachtie -- 10/31/2012 8:33:43 AM >

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: GDP ....really? - 10/31/2012 8:42:09 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Pointless innumerate and clearly wrong ideological rants are not discussion.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: GDP ....really? - 10/31/2012 8:47:06 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Where does the money from the production go if none of it is being produced domestically?


Imports (foreign production) are a negative as those costs flow ~overseas.

So slapping a tax on that to try to keep some of the money walmart and Apple are pumping out of your country from taking flight is incorrect conduct why?

< Message edited by Moonhead -- 10/31/2012 8:48:35 AM >

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: GDP ....really? - 10/31/2012 8:47:24 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		So, our next question becomes, when we see our GDP quoted in the media, and used by government and other sources, say as in military budget as a percentage of GDP, are they using nominal or real GDP in those comparisons?

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: GDP ....really? - 10/31/2012 9:33:31 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Where does the money from the production go if none of it is being produced domestically?


Imports (foreign production) are a negative as those costs flow ~overseas.

So slapping a tax on that to try to keep some of the money walmart and Apple are pumping out of your country from taking flight is incorrect conduct why?


Free traders say no to tariffs. I'm not one of them. I have issues with free traders. I have no problem with protecting one's own first. But one cannot just look at imports to the exclusion of exports.




_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: GDP ....really? - 10/31/2012 9:35:33 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		But, since our exports do not seem to exceed our imports, in that same way one cannot look at social security to the exclusion of the USPS deficits.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: GDP ....really? - 10/31/2012 9:38:40 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

So, our next question becomes, when we see our GDP quoted in the media, and used by government and other sources, say as in military budget as a percentage of GDP, are they using nominal or real GDP in those comparisons?



Nominal I believe. To state in Real terms it would be necessary to state a base, say in 2000 dollars or whatever. I do not see government figures let out that way.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: GDP ....really? - 10/31/2012 9:41:17 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I also believe it is nominal, but cannot find a credible citation. 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: GDP ....really? - 10/31/2012 9:45:39 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

But, since our exports do not seem to exceed our imports, in that same way one cannot look at social security to the exclusion of the USPS deficits.



Sure I can. SS and USPS deficits are not so linked. Thus I can look at SS and USPS deficits independently. Imports / exports are inherently linked as to GDP.

If one cannot look at SS to the exclusion of USPS deficits, please explain how USPS deficits are so linked to SS as to require their inclusion as to SS?

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: GDP ....really? - 10/31/2012 9:47:15 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I also believe it is nominal, but cannot find a credible citation. 



Don't need one. Just look at any figure put out. It's implicitly nominal in its Real absence.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: GDP ....really? - 10/31/2012 9:55:26 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		SS and USPS deficits are not so linked. Thus I can look at SS and USPS deficits independently.






I cannot find that on the government website, the off budget spending is lumped together, and I see no credible citation with them delineated.

sorry, had to change off book to off budget.  wholly different things.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 10/31/2012 9:56:33 AM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: GDP ....really? - 10/31/2012 10:04:26 AM   
Fellow


Posts: 1486
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBlL1aNudVw&playnext=1&list=PLFM0x1BgZKkH-RFxljmSx3tXeItWMC8dz&feature=results_main

Useful discussion to understand the US GDP.

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: GDP ....really? - 10/31/2012 10:06:40 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

SS and USPS deficits are not so linked. Thus I can look at SS and USPS deficits independently.



I cannot find that on the government website, the off budget spending is lumped together, and I see no credible citation with them delineated.

sorry, had to change off book to off budget.  wholly different things.



We're having a mix up here. SS and USPS are budgetary but SS is not a part of the G component for GDP calculations. I don't think any USPS deficit is either.

edit: excepting for the i.e. Pitney-Bowes machines they buy

< Message edited by Yachtie -- 10/31/2012 10:11:08 AM >

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: GDP ....really? - 10/31/2012 10:14:26 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Well, (USPS) is government spending, as is social security, I know it is fucked in the accounting system, in that social security intake is calculated as current  revenues as though  it is going in to balance of payments so it shows up in the good side of the book and then disappears into the off budget.   

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: GDP ....really? - 10/31/2012 10:38:35 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Well, (USPS) is government spending, as is social security, I know it is fucked in the accounting system, in that social security intake is calculated as current  revenues as though  it is going in to balance of payments so it shows up in the good side of the book and then disappears into the off budget.   



According to WIKI "Are social security payments GDP", No, they are transfer payments, which are not considered a part of GDP.

Best I could find as a source.

edit: Can't find anything directly related to USPS, but it is probably safe to assume that USPS would be classified, at least in part, as the purchase of services. In the case of USPS it's probably irrelevant that the government is also the provider of the service.

< Message edited by Yachtie -- 10/31/2012 10:48:18 AM >

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: GDP ....really? - 10/31/2012 10:46:58 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		And I understand that, but they are shown as revenue, (this is a slightly different bit of shennanigans than the GDP coverup of how outsorcing is killing us)....in the current  revenues as recieved, and it appears in the current that our deficit is less than it is, when that is actually not revenue for government consumption (well, I guess it is, cuz they borrow the shit out of it but....)              

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: GDP ....really? - 10/31/2012 10:59:14 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

And I understand that, but they are shown as revenue, (this is a slightly different bit of shennanigans than the GDP coverup of how outsorcing is killing us)....in the current  revenues as recieved, and it appears in the current that our deficit is less than it is, when that is actually not revenue for government consumption (well, I guess it is, cuz they borrow the shit out of it but....)              



I don't see any GDP coverup of outsourcing except to the unmindful.



_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: GDP ....really? - 10/31/2012 11:10:28 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
Then the NYT wasnt a hack job except to the unmindful. 

I see it as a coverup if we are lauding these great job creators and wealth creators and capitalists in America, AS PEOPLE when in point of fact they are the most unAmerican motherfuckers on earth, and are a huge drain on our economy, and we have rightwingers telling us that regulation and taxes are not the way to go with these guys, when in fact we should gut corporate enabling laws, quit spewing asswipe about free trade and the wonder of corporations.  They suck us dry.   The broad middle class is what creates wealth and  a strong country. 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: GDP ....really? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.141