RE: GDP ....really? (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: GDP ....really? (10/31/2012 8:17:08 AM)

Since we are spending ALL of our revenues and then some by several orders of magnitude...  you can laugh like woody woodpecker and slobber like cujo, but you are not impressing anyone with your equivocation fallacy is plain to anyone who can read at a 3rd grade level.

 



Yachtie -> RE: GDP ....really? (10/31/2012 8:28:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Where does the money from the production go if none of it is being produced domestically?


Imports (foreign production) are a negative as those costs flow ~overseas.



Yachtie -> RE: GDP ....really? (10/31/2012 8:32:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Since we are spending ALL of our revenues and then some by several orders of magnitude...  you can laugh like woody woodpecker and slobber like cujo, but you are not impressing anyone with your equivocation fallacy is plain to anyone who can read at a 3rd grade level.
 


[sm=iwin.gif]


edit: It's quite evident any discussion with you is pointless.



mnottertail -> RE: GDP ....really? (10/31/2012 8:42:09 AM)

Pointless innumerate and clearly wrong ideological rants are not discussion.



Moonhead -> RE: GDP ....really? (10/31/2012 8:47:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Where does the money from the production go if none of it is being produced domestically?


Imports (foreign production) are a negative as those costs flow ~overseas.

So slapping a tax on that to try to keep some of the money walmart and Apple are pumping out of your country from taking flight is incorrect conduct why?



mnottertail -> RE: GDP ....really? (10/31/2012 8:47:24 AM)

So, our next question becomes, when we see our GDP quoted in the media, and used by government and other sources, say as in military budget as a percentage of GDP, are they using nominal or real GDP in those comparisons?



Yachtie -> RE: GDP ....really? (10/31/2012 9:33:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Where does the money from the production go if none of it is being produced domestically?


Imports (foreign production) are a negative as those costs flow ~overseas.

So slapping a tax on that to try to keep some of the money walmart and Apple are pumping out of your country from taking flight is incorrect conduct why?


Free traders say no to tariffs. I'm not one of them. I have issues with free traders. I have no problem with protecting one's own first. But one cannot just look at imports to the exclusion of exports.





mnottertail -> RE: GDP ....really? (10/31/2012 9:35:33 AM)

But, since our exports do not seem to exceed our imports, in that same way one cannot look at social security to the exclusion of the USPS deficits.



Yachtie -> RE: GDP ....really? (10/31/2012 9:38:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

So, our next question becomes, when we see our GDP quoted in the media, and used by government and other sources, say as in military budget as a percentage of GDP, are they using nominal or real GDP in those comparisons?



Nominal I believe. To state in Real terms it would be necessary to state a base, say in 2000 dollars or whatever. I do not see government figures let out that way.



mnottertail -> RE: GDP ....really? (10/31/2012 9:41:17 AM)

I also believe it is nominal, but cannot find a credible citation. 



Yachtie -> RE: GDP ....really? (10/31/2012 9:45:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

But, since our exports do not seem to exceed our imports, in that same way one cannot look at social security to the exclusion of the USPS deficits.



Sure I can. SS and USPS deficits are not so linked. Thus I can look at SS and USPS deficits independently. Imports / exports are inherently linked as to GDP.

If one cannot look at SS to the exclusion of USPS deficits, please explain how USPS deficits are so linked to SS as to require their inclusion as to SS?



Yachtie -> RE: GDP ....really? (10/31/2012 9:47:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I also believe it is nominal, but cannot find a credible citation. 



Don't need one. Just look at any figure put out. It's implicitly nominal in its Real absence.



mnottertail -> RE: GDP ....really? (10/31/2012 9:55:26 AM)

SS and USPS deficits are not so linked. Thus I can look at SS and USPS deficits independently.






I cannot find that on the government website, the off budget spending is lumped together, and I see no credible citation with them delineated.

sorry, had to change off book to off budget.  wholly different things.



Fellow -> RE: GDP ....really? (10/31/2012 10:04:26 AM)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBlL1aNudVw&playnext=1&list=PLFM0x1BgZKkH-RFxljmSx3tXeItWMC8dz&feature=results_main

Useful discussion to understand the US GDP.



Yachtie -> RE: GDP ....really? (10/31/2012 10:06:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

SS and USPS deficits are not so linked. Thus I can look at SS and USPS deficits independently.



I cannot find that on the government website, the off budget spending is lumped together, and I see no credible citation with them delineated.

sorry, had to change off book to off budget.  wholly different things.



We're having a mix up here. SS and USPS are budgetary but SS is not a part of the G component for GDP calculations. I don't think any USPS deficit is either.

edit: excepting for the i.e. Pitney-Bowes machines they buy[:D]



mnottertail -> RE: GDP ....really? (10/31/2012 10:14:26 AM)

Well, (USPS) is government spending, as is social security, I know it is fucked in the accounting system, in that social security intake is calculated as current  revenues as though  it is going in to balance of payments so it shows up in the good side of the book and then disappears into the off budget.   



Yachtie -> RE: GDP ....really? (10/31/2012 10:38:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Well, (USPS) is government spending, as is social security, I know it is fucked in the accounting system, in that social security intake is calculated as current  revenues as though  it is going in to balance of payments so it shows up in the good side of the book and then disappears into the off budget.   



According to WIKI "Are social security payments GDP", No, they are transfer payments, which are not considered a part of GDP.

Best I could find as a source.

edit: Can't find anything directly related to USPS, but it is probably safe to assume that USPS would be classified, at least in part, as the purchase of services. In the case of USPS it's probably irrelevant that the government is also the provider of the service.



mnottertail -> RE: GDP ....really? (10/31/2012 10:46:58 AM)

And I understand that, but they are shown as revenue, (this is a slightly different bit of shennanigans than the GDP coverup of how outsorcing is killing us)....in the current  revenues as recieved, and it appears in the current that our deficit is less than it is, when that is actually not revenue for government consumption (well, I guess it is, cuz they borrow the shit out of it but....)              



Yachtie -> RE: GDP ....really? (10/31/2012 10:59:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

And I understand that, but they are shown as revenue, (this is a slightly different bit of shennanigans than the GDP coverup of how outsorcing is killing us)....in the current  revenues as recieved, and it appears in the current that our deficit is less than it is, when that is actually not revenue for government consumption (well, I guess it is, cuz they borrow the shit out of it but....)              



I don't see any GDP coverup of outsourcing except to the unmindful.




mnottertail -> RE: GDP ....really? (10/31/2012 11:10:28 AM)


Then the NYT wasnt a hack job except to the unmindful. 

I see it as a coverup if we are lauding these great job creators and wealth creators and capitalists in America, AS PEOPLE when in point of fact they are the most unAmerican motherfuckers on earth, and are a huge drain on our economy, and we have rightwingers telling us that regulation and taxes are not the way to go with these guys, when in fact we should gut corporate enabling laws, quit spewing asswipe about free trade and the wonder of corporations.  They suck us dry.   The broad middle class is what creates wealth and  a strong country. 



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