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Nidal Hasen trial now on hold indefinitely - 10/23/2012 7:46:18 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline 		Nidal Hasen Court Martial for the killing of 13 people at Fort Hood, Texas on November 5, 2009 is now been put on indefinite delay by U.S. Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces. The reason, his beard, Hasen who still continues to draw his army pay refuses to shave his beard claiming religious reasons, he is Muslim. A previous appeals court ruled he would have to shave the beard or have it shave by force if he refuses.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-usa-crime-fort-hoodbre89m02x-20121022,0,6545525.story

< Message edited by Nosathro -- 10/23/2012 7:47:16 AM >
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RE: Nidal Hasen trial now on hold indefinitely - 10/23/2012 8:09:10 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline 		Why does the Army feel it necessary for him to appear in court shaven?

(in reply to Nosathro)
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RE: Nidal Hasen trial now on hold indefinitely - 10/23/2012 8:10:01 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		UCMJ.  I guess they could charge him with that, as well............LOL. 

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RE: Nidal Hasen trial now on hold indefinitely - 10/23/2012 8:10:48 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		I'm going to take a stab at it.
He is still in the army. The army has grooming standards. He accepted these when he joined up.

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RE: Nidal Hasen trial now on hold indefinitely - 10/23/2012 8:14:05 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		That is pretty much it, a decorum of the court and so on.   Just like they dont let flashers wear the raincoat in civilian court rooms.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Nidal Hasen trial now on hold indefinitely - 10/23/2012 8:16:21 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline 		The UCMJ v US Appellate. Interesting.

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“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

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RE: Nidal Hasen trial now on hold indefinitely - 10/23/2012 8:20:03 AM   
rhondare


Posts: 21
Joined: 6/10/2012
Status: offline 		He was clean shaven at the time of the crime and prosecuters are worried that he will be unrecognizable to witnesses, and therefore eyewitnesses would not be able to make a positive visual ID. He is only claiming his right to a beard per his "religion" after the fact. He never wore a beard while on active duty and complied with all hygene related regulations .... so I've read.
It is an intentional act that has now been through the courts and the courts sided with the military regulations. Why there is an indefinate suspension of justice is beyond me at this point.

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RE: Nidal Hasen trial now on hold indefinitely - 10/23/2012 8:34:40 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

The UCMJ v US Appellate. Interesting.


The Appellate is military as well. 

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Nidal Hasen trial now on hold indefinitely - 10/23/2012 8:37:57 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondare

He was clean shaven at the time of the crime and prosecuters are worried that he will be unrecognizable to witnesses, and therefore eyewitnesses would not be able to make a positive visual ID. He is only claiming his right to a beard per his "religion" after the fact. He never wore a beard while on active duty and complied with all hygene related regulations .... so I've read.
It is an intentional act that has now been through the courts and the courts sided with the military regulations. Why there is an indefinate suspension of justice is beyond me at this point.


indefinite doesnt mean forever, it means indefinite.  I imagine they have to do a huge research on the history of beards, and whether or not he gets the religious pass, and all sorts of things.  

It will be a huge comprehensive opinion, they aint like SCOTUS, and they wouldn't want SCOTUS finding them lacking.

Then the whine about military courts being a showpiece for ramming thru executions or whatever makes the rounds again.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Nidal Hasen trial now on hold indefinitely - 10/23/2012 9:30:18 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

The UCMJ v US Appellate. Interesting.


The Appellate is military as well. 



Exactly. Which is why I find this humorous. The UCMJ is controlling, so why is it on hold?

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

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RE: Nidal Hasen trial now on hold indefinitely - 10/23/2012 9:35:11 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I dunno.  Why were parts of AAPCA on hold until the opinion was given out?

Is there a 'death-bed' conversion allowed by law for beards?  Is it fair and just?
The lower military court said fuck it, shave it off, use force if you have to.
The appellate said, hol up dawg, we have to research this and consider implications.
(they may say, fuckin Sie A, do it, at some point...but it will require a opinion, (and unlike the SCOTUS) it will have a sweeping implication.

   

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Nidal Hasen trial now on hold indefinitely - 10/23/2012 9:59:38 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondare

He was clean shaven at the time of the crime and prosecuters are worried that he will be unrecognizable to witnesses, and therefore eyewitnesses would not be able to make a positive visual ID. He is only claiming his right to a beard per his "religion" after the fact. He never wore a beard while on active duty and complied with all hygene related regulations .... so I've read.
It is an intentional act that has now been through the courts and the courts sided with the military regulations. Why there is an indefinate suspension of justice is beyond me at this point.

I don't know your source for this recognition issue. That is not how the Wiki article reads. Hansan was shot and arrested leaving the scene with gun in hand. Furthermore: During the September 6 hearing, Hasan twice offered to plead guilty, however U.S. Army rules prohibit the judge of accepting a guilty plea in a death penalty case.[123]

This doesn't seem to be an issue of witness recognition. It seems like the trial judge is in a snit about the dignity of the court. Judicial silliness. Shave it for the hangman's noose. That will be time enough. UCMJ? Hasan should give a shit about UCMJ after what he has done and where he is going. What a joke.

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RE: Nidal Hasen trial now on hold indefinitely - 10/23/2012 3:13:43 PM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
Joined: 1/31/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondare
Why there is an indefinite suspension of justice is beyond me at this point.



Well... there's the whole...having the court-martial finding out that it was actually an overt act of Islamic Terrorism and not work place violence, during the final two weeks of the Presidential election might have something to do with it...

< Message edited by FatDomDaddy -- 10/23/2012 3:14:31 PM >

(in reply to rhondare)
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RE: Nidal Hasen trial now on hold indefinitely - 10/23/2012 7:41:48 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Oh yeah. That little, "workplace violence," incident...

Strap the fucker down, shave him, try him, and then build the miserable traitor a handicapped accessible gallows.

(in reply to Nosathro)
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RE: Nidal Hasen trial now on hold indefinitely - 12/4/2012 9:42:26 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline 		This just in the miltary court of appeals has ordered the Judge, Col. Gross removed.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i5RizWXn-e0dFXknzaT2dmJt46DQ?docId=5e4d640178be4262b2587e1fc442895f

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: Nidal Hasen trial now on hold indefinitely - 12/4/2012 9:53:56 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

The UCMJ v US Appellate. Interesting.


The Appellate is military as well. 



Exactly. Which is why I find this humorous. The UCMJ is controlling, so why is it on hold?

They are making sure they don't get overturned if he appeals into the civilian courts once he is convicted.

(in reply to Yachtie)
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RE: Nidal Hasen trial now on hold indefinitely - 12/4/2012 12:57:05 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
That is pretty much it, a decorum of the court and so on.   Just like they dont let flashers wear the raincoat in civilian court rooms.


Do they go in naked, then? Man, I sure hope if I get called for jury duty for one of those trials, that the defendant is female.

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RE: Nidal Hasen trial now on hold indefinitely - 12/4/2012 1:28:08 PM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

UCMJ.  I guess they could charge him with that, as well............LOL. 


I am pretty sure that grant had a beard.

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RE: Nidal Hasen trial now on hold indefinitely - 12/4/2012 4:08:09 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondare
Why there is an indefinite suspension of justice is beyond me at this point.



Well... there's the whole...having the court-martial finding out that it was actually an overt act of Islamic Terrorism and not work place violence, during the final two weeks of the Presidential election might have something to do with it...



Still pissing and moaning about the election huh......... You lost, get over it.

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
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RE: Nidal Hasen trial now on hold indefinitely - 12/4/2012 6:01:47 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		All military courts are subordinate to the federal court system, typically through the CMA. All military law is subordinate by the authority of US Code setting up the MCM. The Supreme Court has ruled that giving great deference to the unique nature of the military does not exempt them from ArtIII of the US Constitution.

Nidal is lying in any case, the beard requirement in Islam is no more observed than the same requirement in Xtianity. The notion that he is playing games with witnesses, sounds about right.



quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

The UCMJ v US Appellate. Interesting.


The Appellate is military as well. 



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" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

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