Jesus' Wife (Full Version)

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Kirata -> Jesus' Wife (9/19/2012 5:42:28 AM)


As we haven't had a religion thread in a while, here's an interesting news update:Perhaps there is more truth in some myths and legends than we credit.

K.



Rule -> RE: Jesus' Wife (9/19/2012 6:20:52 AM)

This for me is insufficient reason to conclude that Jesus was married.



DaddySatyr -> RE: Jesus' Wife (9/19/2012 6:29:18 AM)

I grew up, a Traditional Catholic with the teaching of the "Magdelene Heresey". Since we weren't followers of the Vatican, we were encouraged to investigate and study Canon law, doctors of the church, etc.

Once I did a little research (probably about the age of 13), I came to the conclusion that Jeses and MM were probably married for a couple of reasons ...

1) in those times, in order for one to be a rabbi, they had to be married and the disciples were constantly calling Jesus "Rabbi" or "Teacher" as well as master, etc.

2) Mary didn't finance his ministry for no reason, what-so-ever.

3) Jesus was a man and men in his faith (which he was "prefecting"; not "changing" according to him) were ... well ... look at number one.

4) It just kind of makes sense that someone who is as spiritual as Jesus was would want to teach his followers by example.

Anyway, I don't know about the authenticity of this new papyrus but, it certainly fits in with what I've believed for over three decades.



Peace and comfort,



Michael



mnottertail -> RE: Jesus' Wife (9/19/2012 6:39:56 AM)

And the Judiastic law in those days was simply show up to synagogue  with her and you are married in the site of God.



Rule -> RE: Jesus' Wife (9/19/2012 7:59:26 AM)

Jesus was not married to MM.



vincentML -> RE: Jesus' Wife (9/19/2012 8:14:21 AM)

~FR~
Some potential consequences:

The implications of professor King's discovery are profound. If Jesus was married, the main spiritual argument for male-only clergy and the celibacy of Roman Catholic priests falls into question. (Priests wouldn't need to abandon sex in order to imitate him.) But more importantly, if Jesus was a family man, then the claim to special status made by Catholic clergy, who regard themselves as supernaturally closer to God, loses much of its power.

Beyond internal Catholic Church politics, a married Jesus invites a reconsideration of orthodox teachings about gender and sex. If Jesus had a wife, then there is nothing extra Christian about male privilege, nothing spiritually dangerous about the sexuality of women, and no reason for anyone to deny himself or herself a sexual identity. In fact, one could argue that in their obsessive self denial -- of sexual pleasure, intimate relationships, and family - celibates reject the fullness of Jesus' example.

<SNIP>

Sipe, who has written several books on sexuality and the clergy, predicted that the Gospel of Jesus's Wife will be dismissed by church authorities even as it renews a long running debate over early Christianity and the canon that guides believers today. "The hierarchy will laugh at it," he said, "But then they they'll have to study it." If the fragment is further authenticated it will contribute to "a current reformation of the church that has to has to do with sexuality." Evidence of Jesus as a sexual being "could have been denied deny in the First Century but it cannot be today," he said. "We know too much about human nature now to simply dismiss it."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-dantonio/jesus-had-a-wife_b_1893481.html




Hillwilliam -> RE: Jesus' Wife (9/19/2012 8:14:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

Jesus was not married to MM.

Do you have evidence of that?



fucktoyprincess -> RE: Jesus' Wife (9/19/2012 8:18:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

Jesus was not married to MM.

Do you have evidence of that?

Yes, he was there [&:]



LadyHibiscus -> RE: Jesus' Wife (9/19/2012 8:23:43 AM)

It makes sense that Jesus was married to *someone*, he wouldn't have been following Rabbinical tradition otherwise.




graceadieu -> RE: Jesus' Wife (9/19/2012 8:26:19 AM)

The gnostic gospels held that Jesus and Mary Magdelene were married (or at least that she was an apostle), so this is probably just a newly discovered one or copy of one. And IIRC some of those documents date back to the 2nd century, like the canon gospels.



Rule -> RE: Jesus' Wife (9/19/2012 9:09:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
If Jesus was married, the main spiritual argument for male-only clergy and the celibacy of Roman Catholic priests falls into question. (Priests wouldn't need to abandon sex in order to imitate him.)

I do not know that they imitate them. Where does it say so?

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
more importantly, if Jesus was a family man, then the claim to special status made by Catholic clergy, who regard themselves as supernaturally closer to God, loses much of its power.

If no spiritual energy is dedicated to sex, then more of it may be dedicated to matters spiritual, so indeed they may be closer to the Divine.

In any case, according to folklore, it is the wren that is closest to Heaven.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Beyond internal Catholic Church politics, a married Jesus invites a reconsideration of orthodox teachings about gender and sex. If Jesus had a wife, then there is nothing extra Christian about male privilege, nothing spiritually dangerous about the sexuality of women, and no reason for anyone to deny himself or herself a sexual identity. In fact, one could argue that in their obsessive self denial -- of sexual pleasure, intimate relationships, and family - celibates reject the fullness of Jesus' example.

What is an animal?
Per my definition those beings who spend all day having intercourse, or thinking about it, are animals. Thus there is a spectrum varying from a low degree of animalness to a high degree of animalness. (Unfortunately per my definition I am an animal myself.)

Fortunately, by Divine intervention the sexually transmitted diseases became endemic in many populations and these diseases - besides conferring another very great benefit - remove those individuals who have the highest sex drive and who therefore have a high degree of animalness, from the reproducing population, causing the evolution within a number of generations of a population with a lower degree of animalness. (Me having contracted the herpes virus thus confirms that I am an animal.)

Thus I praise Christianity's stance on sexual activity. And I do think that all means - like condoms - to prevent someone contracting a sexually transmitted disease, ought to be prohibited. And also that those who have contracted such a disease ought not to be treated against it (unless they agree to spend a fair number of years being celibate in a monastery).

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
If the fragment is further authenticated it will contribute to "a current reformation of the church that has to has to do with sexuality."

I certainly hope not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Evidence of Jesus as a sexual being "could have been denied deny in the First Century but it cannot be today," he said. "We know too much about human nature now to simply dismiss it."

I dismiss it. The most Jesus did, was to kiss various people. (Kiss of friendship.)



Rule -> RE: Jesus' Wife (9/19/2012 9:13:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
Jesus was not married to MM.

Do you have evidence of that?

I was there! [8D]

Do you have any evidence pro? Like a marriage contract?

What is evidence? Jesus was a lamb. Lambs are not sexually active.



vincentML -> RE: Jesus' Wife (9/19/2012 9:17:32 AM)

quote:

If no spiritual energy is dedicated to sex, then more of it may be dedicated to matters spiritual, so indeed they may be closer to the Divine.


Also makes for superb performance on the sports field [8|][:D]



TNDommeK -> RE: Jesus' Wife (9/19/2012 9:18:47 AM)

I would have to agree with Rule on this one. We only have a very small amount of words. It also could be referring to Jesus talking in a hypothetical situation, or it could very well have been talking about a wife. There was another part of the paper that read: "she will follow me as a disciple. Mary Magdelene followed Jesus like that. I think Jesus could have been married to her.



Winterapple -> RE: Jesus' Wife (9/19/2012 11:01:02 AM)

FR
It will be interesting to see what the
Vatican's spin on this will be.
Accepatance of it would crack open some
of the dearest held attitudes of Christianity
regarding gender and sexual identity.
But I'm not holding my breath on that one.

I upset my mother once as a child when
I asked her if MM was Jesus' girlfriend.
I didn't understand then or now why it had
any effect on his teachings but the commitment
to Jesus being a celibate who was above
such things was promoted to some degree
by men who were alarmed by the influence
women had in early Christianity.

Mary Magdalene was a disciple of
Jesus and after his death continued
to be one. There were other women
disciples during his lifetime and
countless more after his death.
In Pauls time there were many
female apostles. Women who were
later very deliberately minimized by
male clergy. Early Christianity was
embraced by a great many women
and spread by women.

That MM was said to have been
at the crucifixion alongside his
mother and brother and that she is
the one who the gospels say he first
appeared after the resurrection do argue
that she had a established place in his
life. This doesn't necessarily mean she
was his wife or that he wasn't married
to someone else.

The Catholic church also teaches that
Mary his mother was a lifelong virgin.
The names of his siblings that are in
the gospels are in the Catholic tradition
not the offspring of her and Joseph.
Protestant tradition on the other hand
has no problem with Mary and Joseph
having a regular marital sex life that
produced other children.

Protestants have in most sects female
clergy. I've heard some interesting
reasons why this is not allowed in
Catholicism including one from a priest
who more or less said if we let them
be priests they'll take over the whole
shooting match.



Hillwilliam -> RE: Jesus' Wife (9/19/2012 11:15:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

What is evidence? Jesus was a lamb. Lambs are not sexually active.


They are in New Zealand.......whether they want to be or not.[8D]



fucktoyprincess -> RE: Jesus' Wife (9/19/2012 11:53:38 AM)

You know, most religions are deeply superstitious, and almost fearful of women and female sexuality, and it has resulted in many religions restricting women in some way, shape or form. Maybe women just need to band together and form their own religion [:D]



mnottertail -> RE: Jesus' Wife (9/19/2012 12:07:54 PM)

Either that or he named him Peter for other than the stated reasons.

If he is the true archetype, then as Adam was 'married' to Eve (uh........nobody could possibly sensibly reject that notion..........) and be beguiled by the serpent thru her, how could he not have eschewed going thru Adams tribulation, if indeed he is the one, and his 40 days and nights either Peter was doin him or he was doin Mary Magdelene for the extended honeymoon.  



atursvcMaam -> RE: Jesus' Wife (9/19/2012 12:31:10 PM)

Is this just an effort to irritate the Christians, specifically the Catholics in the same way as the film released on Mohammed an effort to irritate the Muslims? Watch the motivations of the celibate clergy.



Rule -> RE: Jesus' Wife (9/19/2012 12:44:01 PM)

Most Christians will not care. It does not touch on the basic tenets of Christianity.



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