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RE: GOP prepares tough anti-abortion platform - 8/21/2012 11:44:05 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr



In the case of consensual procreation, where the mother's life isn't in danger, the father should have some say, also.

Peace and comfort,

Michael


I don't disagree with this. It's a conundrum, isn't it?

I do. It isn't possible to determine paternity until the pregnancy is fairly far along. Also making a woman serve as a living incubator because a man got her drunk/sabotaged a condom/etc. is wrong.

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RE: GOP prepares tough anti-abortion platform - 8/21/2012 11:48:22 AM   
hlen5


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Status: offline 		This is assuming it was consensual sex and the paternity is known. I believe it's always the woman's ultimate choice, but it's not totally fair, either.

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RE: GOP prepares tough anti-abortion platform - 8/21/2012 4:50:07 PM   
DaddySatyr


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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline 		Having lost a child to a feckless, lazy, piece of human filth that decided it was better to kill the life growing inside her than to allow a caring, loving, parent to raise the child, I can tell you the scales are far too tipped.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

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RE: GOP prepares tough anti-abortion platform - 8/21/2012 5:34:51 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

I don't disagree with this. It's a conundrum, isn't it?


I actually don't. As far as I'm concerned, the foetus is a parasite with the potential to one day become something else, and has no claim to the body of its mother. However, once it is taken out of her, I would say anyone can have a claim to it. Including the father, of course. At that point, it's a preterm, and since it has been disowned, she no longer has a claim to it. If the preterm is also viable, so much the better for those that might want to claim it.

That's the closest I've gotten to an enforcable policy that goes as far as possible in supporting both sides without getting absurd.

After all, being pro-life would necessarily imply preserving these lives when possible, which I'm "assuming" (yeah, right) they will when the preterms arrive, by both paying for them, adopting them, raising them, giving them good lives and so forth. And being pro-choice would necessarily imply not having to carry it to term. As far as I can see, only the anti-choice crowd is left out in this compromise. I am quite comfortable with leaving them out, though, so that's not a problem.

IWYW,
— Aswad.



_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: GOP prepares tough anti-abortion platform - 8/21/2012 5:38:02 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

Having lost a child to a feckless, lazy, piece of human filth that decided it was better to kill the life growing inside her than to allow a caring, loving, parent to raise the child


The man to whom I was married for 18 years is a good, hard working man, but I knew we wouldn't parent well together, and decided to not have children with him and so used birth control. I can't understand impregnating someone you consider to be a feckless, lazy, piece of human filth.

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RE: GOP prepares tough anti-abortion platform - 8/21/2012 6:37:00 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: stellauk

And how many of these people are in favour of abolition of the death penalty?


I've never had that point explained to me by any right wing bible thumper, actually. Why is one rule good for unborn children, but not full-grown adults? I've wondered if it's something to do with said unborn children being 'innocents', untainted by Satan's malign influence in this world, or similar.


Does a fetus get twelve years and multiple appeals? How about a pardon from the Governor?


Because the adult made the choice to commit the crime, was tried by a jury of his peers, and sentenced using due process... Can you say the same for a fetus?


Right . . . so, that makes it moral to murder an adult - according to which part of the Bible, exactly? I'm still not following.

Look, you probably caught me on the wrong night, Rob. At present, I - and most of the rest of the world - consider any American Republican to be a primitive, brainless lunatic and beyond being worth talking to. No offence. I'll try harder in the morning.

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RE: GOP prepares tough anti-abortion platform - 8/21/2012 6:44:39 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

This is assuming it was consensual sex and the paternity is known. I believe it's always the woman's ultimate choice, but it's not totally fair, either.

Not "totally" fair to the prospective father,but any other stance is "Totally" unfair to the prospective mother .
So no,not really a conundrum.

< Message edited by slvemike4u -- 8/21/2012 6:45:51 PM >

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RE: GOP prepares tough anti-abortion platform - 8/21/2012 7:25:46 PM   
DaNewAgeViking


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
I can't understand impregnating someone you consider to be a feckless, lazy, piece of human filth.

Saturday night - too many beers - it happens. Sad. I can understand his feelings on this one.

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RE: GOP prepares tough anti-abortion platform - 8/21/2012 9:50:50 PM   
stellauk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Does a fetus get twelve years and multiple appeals?



So you're okay with the death penalty without a system of appeals?

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

How about a pardon from the Governor?



How many times does that happen? How many times has, say Gov. Rick Perry, issued a pardon?

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Because the adult made the choice to commit the crime, was tried by a jury of his peers, and sentenced using due process...



Wait, hasn't there been something like 134 exonerations since Furman?

Hasn't there been people like Reuben Cantu, Todd Willingham and Troy Davis executed despite reasonable doubts as to their guilt?

So yes even despite years spent on death row and numerous appeals there are still innocent people being executed for crimes they didn't commit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Can you say the same for a fetus?



A fetus is part of a woman's body until it completes gestation and until that point is incapable of independently sustaining life.

The woman, to whom the fetus is attached, and who hasn't committed a crime, surely also must have rights.




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RE: GOP prepares tough anti-abortion platform - 8/22/2012 12:30:45 AM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaNewAgeViking

Saturday night - too many beers - it happens. Sad. I can understand his feelings on this one.


12th week. Doctor's appointment. It happens. Sad. I guess you're not bringing the whole "acting responsibly" thing into it on one side only, right?

IWYW,
— Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: GOP prepares tough anti-abortion platform - 8/22/2012 1:46:39 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaNewAgeViking


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
I can't understand impregnating someone you consider to be a feckless, lazy, piece of human filth.

Saturday night - too many beers - it happens. Sad. I can understand his feelings on this one.


I can understand his feelings too. Unfortunately, it doesn't help his argument. On what basis are we to believe that someone who acts irresponsibly in relation to reproduction (sleeping with and impregnating "a feckless, lazy, piece of human filth", possibly on a booze-addled Sat night) is suddenly going to begin acting responsibly in relation to reproduction and child rearing?

How many times do men have to be told that the time to discuss matters of this nature is before the nookie, not afterwards? I'm getting tired of listening to men tediously bleating about their "powerlessness" over a woman's choices for her body. Damn right men are powerless over a woman's choices for her own body, just as women are powerless over men's choices for their bodies. I wonder whether much of DS's frustration is a product of "a feckless, lazy, piece of human filth" daring to defy DS and insisting on her right to choose what's best for her, rather than meekly succumbing to another person's outrageous selfish demands? It must be pure hell to be unable to impose your demands on some uppity "feckless, lazy, piece of human filth". Crushing. Poor poor thingy you DS, poor thingy indeed.

Unless both parties agree otherwise in advance, the default position is that women have the final say in what happens to their bodies.

Don't like it Mr DS? Then sleep elsewhere or get a condom to do your talking for you. That would be some evidence that you are capable of acting responsibly in matters like this.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 8/22/2012 2:28:09 AM >

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RE: GOP prepares tough anti-abortion platform - 8/22/2012 3:05:23 AM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaNewAgeViking

Saturday night - too many beers - it happens. Sad. I can understand his feelings on this one.


12th week. Doctor's appointment. It happens. Sad. I guess you're not bringing the whole "acting responsibly" thing into it on one side only, right?

IWYW,
— Aswad.



Hilarious how people who are ignorant of facts wish to paint their own.

I was drunk? LOL Nice try. I was irresponsible? Hardly. I took every precaution possible (save not having sex with someone with whom I was in a relationship).

Some of you people are so looking to project your own inadequacies onto others that you're insulting to people that use their heads for something besides a hat rack.

Aswad, I never thought this day would come.



Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 8/22/2012 3:43:53 AM >

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A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: GOP prepares tough anti-abortion platform - 8/22/2012 3:56:05 AM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Hilarious how people who are ignorant of facts wish to paint their own. I was drunk? LOL Nice try. I was irresponsible? Hardly. I took every precaution possible (save not having sex with someone with whom I was in a relationship).


I never said you were drunk. He implied you might have been. I was telling him that his argument had some shortcomings.

quote:

Some of you people are so looking to project your own inadequacies onto others that you're insulting to people that use their heads for something besides a hat rack.


Can't say as I've insulted you in any way.

If you feel that I have, I would appreciate if you explain how and where.

Instead, you're the one plainly telling me I'm not using my head for anything but a hat rack, that I'm projecting inadequacies onto others, and that last part after insulting a woman that has no opportunity to tell us her side of the story, which your own line of reasoning provides some unflattering assumptions to go with. I haven't made those assumptions. I still don't. I'm assuming you misread the post you replied to, and that you'll find that revisiting the context will make it clear that no offense was given or intended. At that point, there will be an imbalance in regard to insult here, and I'm also going to assume you'll redress the imbalance with a brief apology.

quote:

Aswad, I never thought this day would come.


It still hasn't, as far as I can tell.

IWYW,
— Aswad.



_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: GOP prepares tough anti-abortion platform - 8/22/2012 3:56:29 AM   
hardcybermaster


Posts: 904
Joined: 10/6/2008
Status: offline 		good to know you were in a relationship with a feckless lazy piece of human filth, that paints you in a much better light than someone who would have a one night stand with a feckless lazy piece of human filth.

I am sure she speaks well of you

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RE: GOP prepares tough anti-abortion platform - 8/22/2012 3:59:42 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline 		Her decision to take a human life was what made her the person she was.

Good to see you share a mob mentality and pile on.

Welcome to oblivion.



Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: GOP prepares tough anti-abortion platform - 8/22/2012 4:05:11 AM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
Can't say as I've insulted you in any way.

If you feel that I have, I would appreciate if you explain how and where.



That's simple. Since you recognize implication so well:
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
I guess you're not bringing the whole "acting responsibly" thing into it on one side only, right?

IWYW,
— Aswad.



Implying that I was acting irresponsibly.

Some would consider wanting to raise the child to be responsible.

As far as this day never coming? You always presented as someone who was level-headed and fair in your analysis but in this case, you jumped right into the mud.

My opinion of your behavior, I'm sure, doesn't matter much to you.

From this day, forward, my opinion of your opinions will match that level of import.



Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: GOP prepares tough anti-abortion platform - 8/22/2012 4:07:01 AM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		You've made such a spectacle, I can't imagine anyone caring what you think.

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RE: GOP prepares tough anti-abortion platform - 8/22/2012 4:20:40 AM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Implying that I was acting irresponsibly.


Incorrect.

DaNewAgeViking implied you acted irresponsibly, or seemed to.

He also seemed to imply that we can take a "shit happens" attitude to unwanted pregnancies, which I tried to point out has some flaws.

That was the part you're misinterpreting.

quote:

My opinion of your behavior, I'm sure, doesn't matter much to you.


Not when you tack on the following before bothering to resolve the dispute first (which, you'll probably agree, I've always been willing to do in the past):

quote:

From this day, forward, my opinion of your opinions will match that level of import.


If you want to resolve the disagreement, we can do so. That choice is yours. I'm not here to take anything away from you. Not a choice, nor a child. Whatever anyone else has done. But I'm also not here to put up with a tantrum. I sense you're emotional about this, and that's why I'm offering to set matters straight. If you want to jump down my throat about what you assume I meant, despite assurances that I did not mean what you assume I meant, then your opinion of me was either low to begin with, or did not have any bearing on your behavior.

Now I'm off to get a nap, and I will be back to this later to deliver on my offer if you care to take it.

The delay should aid both of us in communicating better.

IWYW,
— Aswad.



_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: GOP prepares tough anti-abortion platform - 8/22/2012 2:19:19 PM   
DaNewAgeViking


Posts: 1009
Joined: 4/29/2004
Status: offline 		Actually I was simply sympathizing with DaddySatyr over something he seemed hurt about - worthless liberal, I know. I find it interesting that she became a 'feckless, lazy, piece of human filth' because she had an abortion. My thoughts were poorly worded perhaps, but I meant well. On reflection, and further details, I withdraw my sympathy.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: GOP prepares tough anti-abortion platform - 8/22/2012 2:25:38 PM   
DaNewAgeViking


Posts: 1009
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Status: offline 		Memo to self: DON"T try to reach across the aisle. You'll only get your hand bit.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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