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Fuck the greedy Lawyer - 8/10/2012 3:04:09 PM   
MrBukani


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As long as the execution of the law is in the hands of overpriced lawyers, the law is corrupted.
Cause I have more money to pay for a decent lawyer then you have.
This law in our western system is not based on the law.
It is based on how much money you can spend on your lawyer.
Wich corrupts the essence of the law.
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RE: Fuck the greedy Lawyer - 8/10/2012 3:37:23 PM   
Real0ne


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yeh but I cant think of anything that is more enjoyable than suing law firms and the sadistic pleasure of seeing the beaten dog look on their faces as they write out the fucking check LMAO

This would be a whole new country, hell a new world, if everyone did that.

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RE: Fuck the greedy Lawyer - 8/10/2012 4:05:17 PM   
MrBukani


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You have the equal right to defend yourself with a gun, but we dont have the right to defend ourselves equally in a court of law?
I think I will buy a gun to defend my rights.

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RE: Fuck the greedy Lawyer - 8/10/2012 6:27:08 PM   
Real0ne


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well if you are faced with imminent danger and in fear for your life you can blast away provided proper precautions are taken, otherwise you have the right to go to jail and think about the precautions you should have taken

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: Fuck the greedy Lawyer - 8/10/2012 6:33:06 PM   
Baroana


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Someone clearly lost their traffic ticket case.

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RE: Fuck the greedy Lawyer - 8/10/2012 6:38:53 PM   
Iamsemisweet


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Sounds like somebody got beat up in court today.

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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RE: Fuck the greedy Lawyer - 8/10/2012 6:47:32 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

As long as the execution of the law is in the hands of overpriced lawyers, the law is corrupted.
Cause I have more money to pay for a decent lawyer then you have.
This law in our western system is not based on the law.
It is based on how much money you can spend on your lawyer.
Wich corrupts the essence of the law.

I sued a realtor and then sued a lawyer and won both, both of them had lawyers.. I never paid a lawyer cuz I did it myself.. The funniest part was the realtor lied to his lawyer, and boy, she was mad as a hornet cuz she didnt find that out until she crossexamined me on the stand the day of the trial and I didnt say what she was expecting..



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RE: Fuck the greedy Lawyer - 8/10/2012 7:20:32 PM   
LexVinco


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Ignorance like this shocks me. I don't know where you live, but here in the US, there's a reason. This is going to be a rant because it seems I suddenly reached my limit hearing about this.

You know why attorneys charge so much? Because when we get out of law school, most of us are saddled with upwards of $150,000 of debt. For me, it'll be $180,000. Yes. One hundred and eighty thousand dollars for three years of schooling. That's a house. That's $1,200/month repayment for 15 years. And that's before all the interest.

And attorneys, unlike what people seem to believe, usually don't get paid $100k/year right off the bat. Most of us are lucky to get $40-$60. And you might say, "Wow, that's a respectable amount." Except with loan payments of $1200/month plus rent (and forget about getting a house, you're already paying a mortgage), plus whatever else you put money towards, it doesn't come out to that much at all.

And so you say, "Well you chose it." And I say, "Yes, I did. But now that you know the facts, stop complaining about the prices for attorneys that (1) don't own their own firm (and therefore don't set the prices, usually only the boss does that) and/or (2) are under the age of 40. Yes, 40. Because that's when the loan payments will finally end (assuming a graduating age of about 25)."

Another thing: how, exactly, is our "greediness" as you see it different than doctors'? You might be shocked by that statement, but really think about it. They charge exorbitant fees for things that don't require that much money thrown at it (hello, every single profession ever). But why are they not villianized like attorneys? Because insurance. Because instead of paying out of pocket for an attorney like you do a doctor, you pay in a small (or large, as it may be) weekly/monthly amount to your insurance company on the chance you get sick. So who is villianized here? The insurance companies. Obviously. Despite the fact that many of you will put in much less than you take out. It's still a fuck ton of money. And how many times are people still furious with doctors when they have to pay out of pocket for expenses? It's about the money, not about the profession. Know the difference.

And before you claim that doctors help people and attorneys are just criminal scumsuckers, consider this: for every lawsuit that occurs, someone has been wronged. Someone has been mistreated, beaten, robbed, tricked out of their money, raped, wrongfully terminated, taken advantage of, and never mind that millions of other reasons someone gets sued/prosecuted. They are not arbitrary. They are legitimate. There are reasons the laws exist. Are some laws absurd? Absolutely. Is a CT scan for mild headaches that occur once every few months (a case I read about, medical malpractice) absurd? Absolutely.

You are probably mad because you lost your case. That's really, honestly unfortunate. It's also unfortunate when a patient dies during surgery from a small complication. Lawyers can ONLY work within the confines of the law. They are forced (as they should be) to abide by an insanely high moral code (The Law Governing Lawyers here in NY and possibly elsewhere, not sure how far it extends, The Model Rules of Professional Conduct, etc.) any breach of which subjects them to serious reprimands and even the lost of their license to practice law. Just like a doctor.

I'd like to think that most people are capable of not overgeneralizing, not taking what their parents taught them as fact 100% of the time, and to think for themselves. I like to imagine I'm not going to be saddled with 180k of debt at the end of next year. We can only fucking dream.

EDIT: Grammar is hard sometimes.


< Message edited by LexVinco -- 8/10/2012 7:29:55 PM >

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RE: Fuck the greedy Lawyer - 8/10/2012 7:55:07 PM   
tj444


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You dont need a lawyer all the time (as my previous post shows) but if you have a problem, paying a lawyer can get rid of it quickly, efficiently and for good.. IF you pick the right lawyer..

The problem with some lawyers is they charge the big bucks but arent worth it, good lawyers usually know their worth and do tend to charge more,.. but its up to each person to decide who is going to represent him/her in court and if that person knows their stuff (so worth every dime) or is just putting in time and shuffling paper (so like paying a Starbucks latte price for a cup of instant coffee).. I have had dealings with various lawyers and only run into a few that I would call "good" at what they do.. & my brother who is both a business/tax lawyer and an accountant isnt one of them.. he has had lots of schooling, 2 degrees and when he was working as a lawyer and partner in an international law firm he was making $200k/yr.. and I wouldn't hire him to cross the street and mail a letter..

JMO..


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RE: Fuck the greedy Lawyer - 8/10/2012 7:58:17 PM   
servantforuse


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Bukani, Next time look for a better public defender and everything will work out.

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RE: Fuck the greedy Lawyer - 8/10/2012 8:02:03 PM   
Tumblweed


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You all on this subject, even though this is an hour long you REALLY should watch it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A75KERKwEQM

Weed

PS

Pepperdine College hasn't had that one pulled via DMCA yet, but if someone does just do a google search for "college conspiracy". It keeps on getting uploaded. Wonder why ?

< Message edited by Tumblweed -- 8/10/2012 8:07:53 PM >

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RE: Fuck the greedy Lawyer - 8/10/2012 8:06:19 PM   
LexVinco


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As you said, the problem lies with figuring out whether or not they're a good attorney. The problem is that you never know . . . until either they are or they aren't. And the layperson's idea of a good attorney is - in my experience - whether they win the case or not. That's not at all an accurate depiction of what makes an attorney good or bad. It might be a part of it. But it's hardly definitive.

And I do not mean this rudely, tj444, but simply don't know how else to word it: when you say that there are only a few lawyers that you'd consider good, what characteristics/behaviors/actions have they portrayed that make them such? And (so not being rude, I swear it) why do you feel you're qualified to make that determination? Especially considering that what an attorney does in front of his/her client is about 5% of what ultimately is done for them in his/her office.

And I agree. Schooling =/= good attorney. Especially because law school teaches you how to think like an attorney. It does NOT teach you how to be an attorney.

Tumblweed: That video has been shown to me before, every time by someone who didn't go to college for some other reason besides those expressed in the video. I'm starting to believe it's something that non college-goers (which is perfectly find if you don't want to go to college, who the hell cares, it's your life) always use to justify their decision. It's an extremely biased video. I promise that you want your doctors to have attended school. Your lawyers. Your accountants. The people that manage your high-end business deals. Your psychiatrists. Those creating laws. Politicians. Those who head companies. College is more than just learning about your profession. You're introduced to things in your classes you won't find outside of them, but that make you a better, more informed, more worldly person. Period.

< Message edited by LexVinco -- 8/10/2012 8:21:15 PM >

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RE: Fuck the greedy Lawyer - 8/10/2012 8:32:54 PM   
cloudboy


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Joined: 12/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

As long as the execution of the law is in the hands of overpriced lawyers, the law is corrupted.
Cause I have more money to pay for a decent lawyer then you have.
This law in our western system is not based on the law.
It is based on how much money you can spend on your lawyer.
Wich corrupts the essence of the law.


Its not so much the quality of the lawyer, but the quality of the client and the surrounding facts that determines an outcome, at least at the trial level.

On the other hand, I recently had a case that I might have appealed to the 4th Circuit. The rules and the procedures for making this appeal were daunting to me, a lawyer myself. For instance there was a 125 page rulebook to figure out what to do: how to submit an appeal, how to serve it, what content to include, whether it should be in paper or PDF form -- followed by the briefing schedule, compilation of the trial record, and then the submission of the briefs and rules related to oral arguments. To give you an idea, to submit the brief, I noted that it had to bound a certain way, and structured according to strict guidelines, and then 25 copies had to be submitted to the court.

A regular person cannot cope with all of that. Next, a regular client cannot necessarily afford to pay the costs. In my case, I had a political asylum case that the BIA refused to remand back to the Immigration Court. The client did not have deep pockets.

Back to your point, the most classic case of what your are talking about is definitely: Chevron v. Ecuador

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 8/10/2012 8:34:39 PM >

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RE: Fuck the greedy Lawyer - 8/10/2012 8:33:45 PM   
tj444


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too many people hire lawyers that are not specialized.. so of course they dont know their stuff, they need to do a lot of research to get up to speed on that area of law.. A lawyer that knows that area of law knows it front to back and you dont need to pay him/her to do all that research.. or people go by price and even if they dont pay as much, they tend to get a lot less.. sometimes they are just getting someone with no experience and right out of law school.. you might pay a lower rate but twice as many hours so it costs just as much anyway and not get a quality job done in the end.. anyone can go to the courthouse or online and do some research on the lawyers they might consider hiring, see what cases they have handled, what the issues and outcome was, basically look at his/her track record..

And I disagree with you, I can tell a good lawyer from a bad one.. the good lawyer can look at your docs/evidence and tell you quickly if you or your opponent have a case, how you will win it and 2 of the lawyers that come to my mind took care of each matter with one very strongly worded letter.. end of problem.. A good lawyer doesnt just win the case, they can see to it that its quashed before it even goes anywhere.. Another lawyer had a similar situation & already had the solution so saved me time and money.. a lawyer that fudges his answers to you is a bad lawyer and i have run into them also so I kept looking for a better one.. To a certain degree you need to know enough about law, especially whatever area it is, to be able to recognize a good lawyer from a bad one.. if he cant answer your questions to your satisfaction then imo he is a bad lawyer and you are wasting your money on him/her...

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As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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RE: Fuck the greedy Lawyer - 8/10/2012 8:40:39 PM   
LexVinco


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I in no way suggested that you were incapable of recognizing a good from a bad lawyer. I was just curious what your opinion on the matter was. And I happen to agree with you. You're definitely going to have shitty lawyers out there, like you have shitty people in any profession. Lawyers who will take the case to make the commission and not really put in the necessary amount of work. There are strict guidelines about this and if the lawyer is caught, huge penalties. I suppose it'll depend on how familiar the client is with that stuff though. Which, like you also suggested, it's a very good idea to know at least a little of what you're doing.

I mean, how often to people blindly follow doctors without doing at least a little research on their medical condition?

Be careful with the research though. Specializations are absolutely fantastic, but new cases come in every day that have the ability to negate previous law. As in, one day the law may say A and the very next day, it could say Z. Research is absolutely critical even on something that might seem cut and dry. It's never a bad thing for your attorney to do appropriate research :)

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RE: Fuck the greedy Lawyer - 8/10/2012 9:19:57 PM   
tj444


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I never said a good lawyer didnt need to do any research, of course a lawyer will have to keep up to speed on changes in their specialty.. just as a good doctor should.. but if you hire a general practice lawyer he/she is way behind the 8 ball and gonna need to do a lot more research just to get up to speed to where a lawyer that specializes in that area wouldn't need to cuz he/she is practicing it regularly..

Imo, a lot of people (especially older people) take a doctors word for everything and dont do any of their own research at all.. thats how quacks are able to keep practicing.. Heck, they might not even be a real Doctor.. or there might be various complaints or lawsuits against them..

Oddly enough, I like young Doctors cuz they have just come out of doctor school and are imo very up to date with the latest medical treatments, etc whereas the old coger doctor hasnt looked at a medical journal in the last 10+ years.. plus.. young doctors are cuter..

< Message edited by tj444 -- 8/10/2012 9:51:23 PM >


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RE: Fuck the greedy Lawyer - 8/10/2012 9:40:02 PM   
slvemike4u


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Sitting in a room with my soon to be ex-wife,her lawyer and my lawyer....and realized I was the smartest person in the room.Sure enough there came a point during the proceedings where my lawyer threw up his arms and told me we were fucked...whereupon I told him to "calm down,this is what we are going to do"
He listened to me,did as he was told.I walked out with a good chunk of her money,my son(much more important than the money,and she paid my shysters fee....justice is sweet,but you better make sure you are smart enough to obtain that nectar

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Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

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RE: Fuck the greedy Lawyer - 8/10/2012 9:53:32 PM   
LexVinco


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Agreed, agreed, agreed. We're in agreement.

quote:

plus.. young doctors are cuter..


Honestly . . . it's all I want out of this world. /sigh.

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RE: Fuck the greedy Lawyer - 8/11/2012 2:03:44 AM   
MrBukani


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Nay I am not mad and I didn't loose a trial. I am angry at the general judicial system that has been purposely made difficult. I studied the law myself and way too much laws are open to interpertation. The law like taxsystems can be radically simplified. So lawyers dont have to pay ridiculous costs for schooling. But more important so justice can be handled better. Off course a lawyer is gonna claim the law cannot be simplified. they would hurt their own biz. Doctors ,politicians,bankers,captains of industry, and policemen are just men and CAN be just as corrupt. I do not discriminate my hatred for bad people in general.
I know for a fact there is a term in dutch wich translates like skinning the flesh. Cuttiin the meat right of the bone. This general tactic entails that a lawyer keeps his dumb client paying by delaying the case with nonsense. Just like doctors prescribe medicine from companies who they freelance for.

So if you are smart like you all claim yourselves, you again have more rights. But a handicapped less intelligent man has less rights cause he is not able to defend himself like your honorable smartasses. Another case of inequality. Thank you very much for pointing that out as well.
Keep up the good work my friends.

< Message edited by MrBukani -- 8/11/2012 2:13:01 AM >

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RE: Fuck the greedy Lawyer - 8/11/2012 3:36:39 AM   
Tumblweed


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Nobody here knows shit. These colleges are making so much money you can't even imagine, they are just paying it out to themselves and their buddies at an amazing rate. At what they charge you would think every college professor made at least a million bucks a year. Well they don't usually and the ones that do are not quite common. Even at the epitome THE educational career, a million is alot for a year. Some even make more, but those are far and few between.

It's those motherfuckers in the offices making seven million a year doing jack shit. It's the guy who wrote that check for $20 million when the college sports department did something wrong. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THIS TWENTY MILLION DOLLARS WAS TAKENAWAY FROM OUR KID'S EDUCATION ? DO YOU ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT WHEN A PUBLICLY TRADED CORPORATION MAKE A POLITICAL DONATION IT WAS STOLEN FROM THE SHAREHOLDERS ?

Oh wait, maybe it wasn't. So where was it going anyway ?

Fucking THINK people THINK. You are being fucked up the ass 24/7/365.

Weed

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