Loughner could get life

Loughner could get life (Full Version)

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Nosathro -> Loughner could get life (8/5/2012 7:23:31 PM)
As we start to recover from the deaths at Theather and how to deal with Holmer. It appears another mentally ill person who commited a simular assault will get life, remember Loughner? http://news.yahoo.com/loughner-plead-guilty-arizona-shooting-spree-la-times-015020744.html

LanaDeVille -> RE: Loughner could get life (8/5/2012 7:24:29 PM)
Is this a bad thing? I mean that sincerely.

Marini -> RE: Loughner could get life (8/5/2012 7:50:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LanaDeVille Is this a bad thing? I mean that sincerely. This probably will start a BIG death penalty debate, Lana. Many students in Elementary school could tell you he would at LEAST get life. I am on the fence when it comes to "the death penalty", BUT if Loughner does NOT get the "death penalty", than no one else should ever get the death penalty either.

LanaDeVille -> RE: Loughner could get life (8/5/2012 7:57:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini quote: ORIGINAL: LanaDeVille Is this a bad thing? I mean that sincerely. This is the start of a death penalty debate Lana. After a while, you can predict how threads will go based on the original post. Many students in Elementary school could tell you he would at LEAST get life. I am not sure how I feel, but let the death penalty debate start. I will add this, if Loughner does NOT get the "death penalty", than no one should ever get it. In other words, people are about to get out the gloves. =P I am too ignorant about the death penalty to have an opinion. I can honestly say though that it doesn't settle well with my morals. I'm on the fence. That's about it.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Loughner could get life (8/5/2012 8:03:23 PM)
I certainly hope he's locked up forever.

SternSkipper -> RE: Loughner could get life (8/5/2012 8:04:12 PM)
quote: It appears another mentally ill person who commited a simular assault will get life, remember Loughner? Yeah, I remember Loughner... And I've seen a couple of these news tibits you seem to be picking up on and frankly, I think they insult the public's intelligence half implying with don't remember these incidents like they are some social responsibility. Question is did you forget he's not as much on trial for the assault counts as the MURDER Counts? And I think we are entitled to let these items drift from our collective attention. In fact, it's fucked up to DWELL on them . It's in the hands of a court now. I have great faith this guy will get what he deserves. "His honor says why don't we give them, rope enough to hang them selves, no need to worry the jury, they'll probably take care of themselves" - Hunter

DesideriScuri -> RE: Loughner could get life (8/6/2012 5:08:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini quote: ORIGINAL: LanaDeVille Is this a bad thing? I mean that sincerely. This probably will start a BIG death penalty debate, Lana. Many students in Elementary school could tell you he would at LEAST get life. I am on the fence when it comes to "the death penalty", BUT if Loughner does NOT get the "death penalty", than no one else should ever get the death penalty either. You're probably right about the debate. I'm against the whole "Life sentence with no possibility of parole." To me, that's ridiculous unless we are extracting some sort of "payback" from them. That is, they are providing some sort of service to the area, Country, or victims' families. Some will say it's better to have them rot in jail stewing over what they've done, but I'm in the camp that considers that if those people can perpetrate those offenses, will they really have their conscience beating them? Give them the death penalty. There are challenges afforded Death Row inmates. As soon as those are expired, it might be time to start the wind mill and take the cover off the solar panels.

SilverMark -> RE: Loughner could get life (8/6/2012 5:30:55 AM)
I think the legal argument with anyone who takes the insanity defense, and is successful in the defense, would be that if you find him as such, is it right to put someone not in control of his faculties to death? Tough call....

DaddySatyr -> RE: Loughner could get life (8/6/2012 5:35:55 AM)
Of course, if someone is truly incapable of forming the requisite intent and understanding of committing a murder they should not be put to death for being mentally ill. However, if they're a murderous fuckhead, there's no form of death penalty still alowable that isn't too good for them. To show mercy to someone who is truly feeble minded is just and fair. To allow murdering fuckheads to manipulate the system is panty-waste bullshit. Peace and comfort, Michael

SilverMark -> RE: Loughner could get life (8/6/2012 5:43:04 AM)
DS, I am not sure you are incorrect, but not convinced you are.... If you are found insane, you are insane....if being insane causes you to be a muderous fuckhead, does that make you less insane? The Columbine kids were not insane, the jury is out on the latest Colorado shooter, Loughner, he may be the best case for such a defense and truly be so insane as to cause his dillusions, and his actions.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Loughner could get life (8/6/2012 5:52:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SilverMark DS, I am not sure you are incorrect, but not convinced you are.... If you are found insane, you are insane....if being insane causes you to be a muderous fuckhead, does that make you less insane? The Columbine kids were not insane, the jury is out on the latest Colorado shooter, Loughner, he may be the best case for such a defense and truly be so insane as to cause his dillusions, and his actions. Being insane may "cause" one to murder but, I don't think that they are necessarily *guilty* of that crime. If your example of post hoc ergo propter hoc is actually accurate, of course I wouldn't advocate the death penalty. However, I don't think mass murder makes one crazy. The act doesn't necessarily create the cause. No, I meant what I said: if someone is truly insane, they'e not responsible. If they're just murderous pricks, kill 'em all. Peace and comfort, Michael

Nosathro -> RE: Loughner could get life (8/6/2012 6:15:35 AM)
A few pointers, the word "insane" is not a medical term, rather a legal term, by defination insane means someone who can not determine right from wrong. Loughner was first declared as the article points unfit to stand trial back in May 2011. After that a hearing is heal periodcally to see if Loughner is fit to stand trial. I think my point to all this Loughner as with Holmes had a long history of mental illness, in both cases the red flags were waving yet nothing was done. If some action were taken in both cases an alternative end would have been possible. In Holmes case an investigation is under way as to way a psychitarist warning were not given the attention at the University Holmes was attending. Sounds like Virgina Tech all over again.

SilverMark -> RE: Loughner could get life (8/6/2012 6:21:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro A few pointers, the word "insane" is not a medical term, rather a legal term, by defination insane means someone who can not determine right from wrong. Loughner was first declared as the article points unfit to stand trial back in May 2011. After that a hearing is heal periodcally to see if Loughner is fit to stand trial. I think my point to all this Loughner as with Holmes had a long history of mental illness, in both cases the red flags were waving yet nothing was done. If some action were taken in both cases an alternative end would have been possible. In Holmes case an investigation is under way as to way a psychitarist warning were not given the attention at the University Holmes was attending. Sounds like Virgina Tech all over again. I just thought insane sounded so much better than "shit house rat fucking crazy".... Would the red flags been THAT evident, sorry, not a psychiatrist, not so sure that those with such issues tell the truth or not? I am always intrigued by what must go through these people's minds, but sickened by their actions. Always curious to how they get to the point of action, and if at some point there aren't telling signs that are simply missed, even by professionals.

Real0ne -> RE: Loughner could get life (8/6/2012 6:28:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro A few pointers, the word "insane" is not a medical term, rather a legal term, by defination insane means someone who can not determine right from wrong. one persons freedom fighter is anothers terrorist. --chose--

Winterapple -> RE: Loughner could get life (8/6/2012 7:02:38 AM)
FR I'm against the death penalty in all instances no matter how repugnant the crime. I'm especially sickened by the incompetent be they severly mentally ill or have very low IQ's being sentenced to death. This man is severly mentally ill. That he is having a competency hearing at all says a great deal about the severity of his illness. In a hospital setting where he can't refuse his meds he can to some degree show reason and comprehension. I don't think he could ever be trusted to be free in society. He needs to be put away for life. I don't really think prison is the place for him. A facility for the criminally insane is more appropriate if such a place can be found. The man has schizophrenia, a severe form of it. He is not in control of his faculties. It's sickening to think of the state murdering a person who through no fault of his own has a illness. The severity of his mental illness affects his judgement. Put him away for life but don't murder him on top of the people he murdered. There's no justice or punishment to be found in case like this. Just the pragmatic conclusion that the man needs to be guarded for the rest of his life. I do think he is not guilty for reasons of insanity but he is a risk to society. Prison isn't the place for someone that mentally ill. But having acting out as he did in a delusional state I don't see how he allowed back into society. It's an ethical quandary in all sorts of ways.

Yachtie -> RE: Loughner could get life (8/6/2012 7:05:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri I'm against the whole "Life sentence with no possibility of parole." Isn't a life sentence with possibility of parole an oxymoron?

Moonhead -> RE: Loughner could get life (8/6/2012 7:12:41 AM)
No, it isn't. Hasn't there been a recent fuss about sending down young offenders for life without parole, in fact?

Marini -> RE: Loughner could get life (8/6/2012 8:24:58 AM)
*Footnote* I got my mass murderers mixed up, there are so many these days. I confused Loughner with Meehan, sorry bout that. Meehan will still probably get the same sentence as Loughner, though. Aren't they both "clinically insane"? [8\|]

DesideriScuri -> RE: Loughner could get life (8/6/2012 12:35:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr Of course, if someone is truly incapable of forming the requisite intent and understanding of committing a murder they should not be put to death for being mentally ill. However, if they're a murderous fuckhead, there's no form of death penalty still alowable that isn't too good for them. To show mercy to someone who is truly feeble minded is just and fair. To allow murdering fuckheads to manipulate the system is panty-waste bullshit. Peace and comfort, Michael Come on, DS, quite beating around the bush! Tell us how you really feel! [:D]

DaddySatyr -> RE: Loughner could get life (8/6/2012 12:43:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Come on, DS, quite beating around the bush! Tell us how you really feel! [:D] Yeah, my therapist says I need to stop "holding things in" and repressing my feelings. Peace and comfort, Michael

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