RE: Registering the Poor to Vote is Un-American (Full Version)

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Real0ne -> RE: Registering the Poor to Vote is Un-American (8/5/2012 10:05:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Getting others involved, and even helping them get to the polls, is a great way for individuals to participate in democracy.




DEMOCRACY: 51% of the population can vote to fuck your wife every Friday nite


yeh what could be better than getting everone involved in democracy after all!



DesideriScuri -> RE: Registering the Poor to Vote is Un-American (8/6/2012 5:00:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Rich If they only encouraged people to learn the issues and helped them to the polls rather then get them to vote a particular way I would agree with you...but that is not reality.


Isn't that, essentially, what politicians don't want to have happen? Politicians only want the people to be educated enough to slant them to vote for their party/candidates. Politicians don't want the people to be educated on the issues outside of the one(s) they themselves are correct on. And, that is the greatest disservice our political system perpetrates on its citizens. Each side only tells the snippets of the story that support them.

Whose responsibility is it to be educated on the issues? I say, it's the voter's responsibility. We don't have a truly non-partisan media outlet educating the masses.



Yachtie -> RE: Registering the Poor to Vote is Un-American (8/6/2012 7:00:05 AM)

fr

The simple truth was said a long time ago, that when the populace finds it can vote itself money and benefits from the public trough the Republic is all but dead. The kind of representative democracy currently practiced is the worst kind, being anything but representative.

We have the best politicians money can buy.



Winterapple -> RE: Registering the Poor to Vote is Un-American (8/6/2012 7:32:22 AM)

FR
Yes, only the poor vote in a self serving way.
Only the poor are to ignorant to vote.
They lack lack the keen grasp of the issues
that the still undecided on election day crowd has.
What an asshole.



YSG -> RE: Registering the Poor to Vote is Un-American (8/6/2012 7:41:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
What a ridiculous conclusion.


Not to mention insulting to the poor, who might prefer to vote according to values, or a desire for greater opportunity, instead of a poverty maintenance handout.

I would say that there are those out there who genuinely need assistance. However, I also know of several who are abusing the system. Just last night, I had a woman tell me that I dont know how to to my job because she couldent remember the balance on her food stamp card, which she pulled out of her new Gucci purse, while her husband stood there looking stupid in his brand new Izod polo. We do need a way to verify that someone has either an unsustainable income, or none at all in some cases.

On the other hand, there are programs out there that help people improve themselves and their situation. I, like most people couldent afford a college education without federal financial aid. That money is going to be paid back with interest, both in cash and in sweat as a teacher.



Moonhead -> RE: Registering the Poor to Vote is Un-American (8/6/2012 7:53:38 AM)

Oh, you always get people abusing the system.
It's just this notion that the only way to prevent that is to do away with it entirely and fuck everybody who actually needs it that I have a problem with.
We're forever hearing about the money benefits fraud costs over here, while there's rarely as much as a whisper in the press about tax evasion that costs the taxpayer a shitload more.



Musicmystery -> RE: Registering the Poor to Vote is Un-American (8/6/2012 8:05:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Oh, you always get people abusing the system.
It's just this notion that the only way to prevent that is to do away with it entirely and fuck everybody who actually needs it that I have a problem with.
We're forever hearing about the money benefits fraud costs over here, while there's rarely as much as a whisper in the press about tax evasion that costs the taxpayer a shitload more.

Good thing no one in the other classes abuses the system.

[8|]



Moonhead -> RE: Registering the Poor to Vote is Un-American (8/6/2012 8:07:42 AM)

Quite. That would be terrible, wouldn't it?



thompsonx -> RE: Registering the Poor to Vote is Un-American (8/6/2012 8:55:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Baroana

Only men who own land should vote.

[8|]



thompsonx -> RE: Registering the Poor to Vote is Un-American (8/6/2012 8:58:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD


Unfortunately helping those who truly need also means giving hand-outs to those who abuse the system.


Are you talking about bill gates,adm,cargil and their ilk?



thompsonx -> RE: Registering the Poor to Vote is Un-American (8/6/2012 9:05:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Just me…I believe recruiting activists of both parties perform a disservice to our democracy.

The votes they get are often tainted by one-sided rhetoric and can unfairly influence an election.


Kinda like the lies that politicians tell to sway the voters eh?

quote:

I take the time to learn the issues…know the candidates and what they represent…understand how the people and issues will affect myself and my family.

And then vote for the candidate or issue which will work in your favor....how is that different than what you are railing against????

quote:

I discuss the issues with friends, family, and acquaintances and need no outside recruiter to tell me how I should vote.


You have yet to demonstrate where those who register voters tell the voter how to vote...rather presumptous of you.

quote:

Those that can not do the above on their own should not vote…they do not truly know the issues or what they are voting for or against and are worse than useless.


Are you proposing a competency test???maybe a poll tax to offset the costs of administering the test?

quote:

Let the people know the issues…ok…but the physical recruiting…door to door…driving to the polls…nope…they only deserve to have a say when they vote of their on accord without recruitment.


So you would outlaw all political campagning?




thompsonx -> RE: Registering the Poor to Vote is Un-American (8/6/2012 9:07:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Rich If they only encouraged people to learn the issues and helped them to the polls rather then get them to vote a particular way I would agree with you...but that is not reality.

Take for instance Bush's second victory... it was achieved, or I believe it was, by Republican activist recruiters getting out the corn belt and religious right vote by emphasizing gay marriage and ignoring the important issues of the day.

Didn't the scotus appoint bush to the second term?



thompsonx -> RE: Registering the Poor to Vote is Un-American (8/6/2012 9:08:24 AM)

quote:

Sir Winston is one of my favorite people to quote (and he was a helluva politician).


Didn't the voters chuck his fat ass out about four microseconds after the nazis surrendered?



DesideriScuri -> RE: Registering the Poor to Vote is Un-American (8/6/2012 12:54:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Winterapple
FR
Yes, only the poor vote in a self serving way.
Only the poor are to ignorant to vote.
They lack lack the keen grasp of the issues
that the still undecided on election day crowd has.
What an asshole.


I find it interesting that you have defined "populace" from Yachtie's post as "the poor." Could that be a bit of an illuminating gaffe?

And, yes, when the populace figures it out, the Republic is doomed. And, it is my belief that the Corporatists figured it out well before the rest of the populace. I don't support that by any stretch.



dcnovice -> RE: Registering the Poor to Vote is Un-American (8/6/2012 6:09:51 PM)

quote:

We have the best politicians money can buy.

This brings to mind one of my all-time-favorite New Yorker cartoons:

[image]https://cartoonbank.licensestream.com/LicenseStream/ContentStorage_CondeNast/1/UserComps/ubqmbuvp.jpg[/image]



erieangel -> RE: Registering the Poor to Vote is Un-American (8/6/2012 6:43:02 PM)

This is an interesting thread because I've been trying to encourage my clients to register to vote. Most of them aren't interested. Yet just last night I got a call from one of them who'd heard from somebody a rumor that SSI is going to end. That same rumor has been going around for the past 15-20 years. This kid is 20, a severe schizophrenic, paranoid and totally unemployable at the present time. He's been in and out of the hospital, a crisis center and an adult therapy center several times in the past year alone. His sole source of income is the $698 in SSI. He's worried that if his income stops, he'll be penniless.

I told him SSI is not going to end any time, unless the Republicans take complete control of the government--and maybe not even then because it would be insane to do that. The majority of the population will not stand by and watch the disabled left to fend for themselves with no safety net to speak of. Even most Republicans within the general population are not that heartless. But I also gave the kid a few truths. He has to work much harder to try to make himself better, start exercising and watching his diet and make sure he takes his medication as prescribed. If he's that afraid that SSI might someday end, he should prepare for the possibility and make himself employable, if possible.

And vote. He has to vote. And he should vote Democratic because it is no secret the Republicans have not liked social security, medicare, medicaid from the day those safety nets were established. While it is true the Dems have done little to protect those programs in recent years, the Republicans will decimate them given the chance to do so if they believe they will not suffer politically.

In the end, we all vote our own interests. A person on welfare, of social security would be unlikely to vote for somebody who vows to end to those programs. A pro-life Christian would be unlikely to vote to for a pro-choice, anti-death penalty, pro-homosexual equal rights Democrat. And a tax-dodging, tax-sheltering wealthy person would be certain to vote for a tax-dodging, tax-sheltering multimillionaire who is rumored to have not paid any federal income taxes for 10 years.



servantforuse -> RE: Registering the Poor to Vote is Un-American (8/6/2012 7:32:53 PM)

Just because someone is poor doesn't make them stupid. Stupid people might  need help regestering to vote, but the poor don't. They seem to do just fine getting all of the hand outs they think they are entitled to  with out help.



DesideriScuri -> RE: Registering the Poor to Vote is Un-American (8/6/2012 9:34:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel
In the end, we all vote our own interests. A person on welfare, of social security would be unlikely to vote for somebody who vows to end to those programs. A pro-life Christian would be unlikely to vote to for a pro-choice, anti-death penalty, pro-homosexual equal rights Democrat.


And here is where the rubber truly meets the road, erieangel. If, in my zeal to vote my own interests, I vote for the candidate that promises me the most stuff while promising to tax me the least, is that really what Government is all about? If I were to run on a platform of providing housing, food, and health care to everyone in the bottom 75% at the expense of the top 25%, would that be acceptable? Is that the role of Government, to give everyone that is below some %-ile everything?


And a tax-dodging, tax-sheltering wealthy person would be certain to vote for a tax-dodging, tax-sheltering multimillionaire who is rumored to have not paid any federal income taxes for 10 years.


Did Obama take any credits/deductions? Isn't that "tax-dodging?" And, now, you're going to support the "rumor" of someone not having paid federal income taxes for 10 years?

Know how the rich get that way? They figure out how to reduce their outflow, while increasing their inflow. If parking money outside the US is going to reduce their outflow without hurting their cash flow, why wouldn't they do it?

You want to bet that the majority of Obama's "rich" friends took pretty much every exemption/deduction/credit they could, instead of "paying their fair share?"



slvemike4u -> RE: Registering the Poor to Vote is Un-American (8/7/2012 6:02:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Just me…I believe recruiting activists of both parties perform a disservice to our democracy.

The votes they get are often tainted by one-sided rhetoric and can unfairly influence an election.

I take the time to learn the issues…know the candidates and what they represent…understand how the people and issues will affect myself and my family.

I discuss the issues with friends, family, and acquaintances and need no outside recruiter to tell me how I should vote.

Those that can not do the above on their own should not vote…they do not truly know the issues or what they are voting for or against and are worse than useless.

Let the people know the issues…ok…but the physical recruiting…door to door…driving to the polls…nope…they only deserve to have a say when they vote of their on accord without recruitment.

Butch

Maybe it's just me but I feel a twinge of embarrassment whenever I see the percentage of eligible voters of my country who never show up.
It's disgusting that so few exercise their franchise and anything that can be done to raise that number can only strengthen the Republic...but thats just me



slvemike4u -> RE: Registering the Poor to Vote is Un-American (8/7/2012 6:03:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

There is a quote I've seen attributed to Churchill, and I'm probably paraphrasing, that the the best argument against democracy is 10 minutes talking to a typical voter.

We don't get to tell people what they have to base their decision on. 

This



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