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RE: Religion and Serial Killers - 7/24/2012 8:48:26 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

It's pretty simple. Somewhere along the line, everybody makes choices.


IDK, Rich. It all seems pretty complicated to me. Do you think the orange haired monster made rational choices unmotivated by emotions?





I didn't say rational choices, Vince. I don't think there is a way to get from rational choices, to where this guy wound up.

I don't buy the nature/nurture question as an either/or. It is both, plus the choices we make. Dumb and dangerous decisions still count.

(in reply to vincentML)
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RE: Religion and Serial Killers - 7/24/2012 8:58:15 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
So, what kind of influences does religion have on the mind of a serial killer, or is it just a random statistic due to the fact that most americans are religious in some form or another?


The sort of religious belief you're talking about can also be a symptom of mental illness.

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://www.umm.edu/patiented/articles/what_psychological_therapies_schizophrenia_000047_9.htm#ixzz21bSfdoyR
They can be taught to recognize impending symptoms of relapse and help the patient avoid situations that might trigger them. (Symptoms for an impending relapse after remission may include feeling distant from family and friends, being increasingly bothered by persistent thoughts, and having an increased interest in religion.)

(in reply to jlf1961)
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RE: Religion and Serial Killers - 7/25/2012 7:26:56 AM   
Nosathro


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From: Orange County, California
Status: offline 		Here is some information on the frontal lobe,
http://biology.about.com/od/anatomy/p/Frontal-Lobes.htm

There has also been studies concerning serial killers up bring and unsolved issues with there mother. Also recent studies have sugguested the high IQ are also related in mental illness. Remember Holmes was in a Ph.D program.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
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RE: Religion and Serial Killers - 7/25/2012 7:34:36 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Here is some information on the frontal lobe,
http://biology.about.com/od/anatomy/p/Frontal-Lobes.htm

There has also been studies concerning serial killers up bring and unsolved issues with there mother. Also recent studies have sugguested the high IQ are also related in mental illness. Remember Holmes was in a Ph.D program.


The carrot was not so bright as first portrayed. One of his mentors called him a 'dolt' and his academic achievements were ordinary.

Neuroscientists debunk idea Colorado suspect was supersmart

I would be suspicious of the business about serialkillers/massmurderers having unresolved issues with their mothers. The same used to be said about gay men.

(in reply to Nosathro)
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RE: Religion and Serial Killers - 7/25/2012 7:53:14 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

high IQ . . . a Ph.D program


Ooooh, trust me, these two are not synonymous.

Ph.D.s are largely a function of time and money. Yes, brilliant people earn them. So do idiots.

And, not every candidate is successful (for a number of reasons, some related to ability, others not).

(in reply to Nosathro)
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RE: Religion and Serial Killers - 7/25/2012 8:25:32 AM   
Nosathro


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Here is some information on the frontal lobe,
http://biology.about.com/od/anatomy/p/Frontal-Lobes.htm

There has also been studies concerning serial killers up bring and unsolved issues with there mother. Also recent studies have sugguested the high IQ are also related in mental illness. Remember Holmes was in a Ph.D program.


The carrot was not so bright as first portrayed. One of his mentors called him a 'dolt' and his academic achievements were ordinary.

Neuroscientists debunk idea Colorado suspect was supersmart

I would be suspicious of the business about serialkillers/massmurderers having unresolved issues with their mothers. The same used to be said about gay men.


I did not say Holmes was supersmart, but he did get into a Ph.D program. there is some intelligence working. There are many studies, nature vs. nurture, take you pick.

http://writersforensicsblog.wordpress.com/2009/06/25/forensic-psychologist-dr-katherine-ramsland-talks-about-serial-killers/

(in reply to vincentML)
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RE: Religion and Serial Killers - 7/25/2012 11:02:34 AM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I don't feel like digging it back up again, but one article I saw in the last few days pointed out unemployment as a commonality in many spree killers/mass murderers.


Well, I can think of two off the top of my head that did it BECAUSE they were unemployed - they visited their previous employer and began shooting. I'd differentiate between those that specifically aimed for their ex employer and those that simply had extra time.

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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RE: Religion and Serial Killers - 7/25/2012 11:16:29 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Here is some information on the frontal lobe,
http://biology.about.com/od/anatomy/p/Frontal-Lobes.htm

There has also been studies concerning serial killers up bring and unsolved issues with there mother. Also recent studies have sugguested the high IQ are also related in mental illness. Remember Holmes was in a Ph.D program.


The carrot was not so bright as first portrayed. One of his mentors called him a 'dolt' and his academic achievements were ordinary.

Neuroscientists debunk idea Colorado suspect was supersmart

I would be suspicious of the business about serialkillers/massmurderers having unresolved issues with their mothers. The same used to be said about gay men.

You have to look at who was referring to him as a "Dolt". It's a relative term. A guy that a bunch of neuroscientists refer to as a "dolt" is still probably a hell of a lot more intelligent than 95% of the general population. Joe 6-pack would probably refer to him as 'genius'.

_____________________________

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Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: Religion and Serial Killers - 7/25/2012 11:22:42 AM   
jlf1961


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From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		The Unabomber, Ted Kaczynsk had a very high IQ, he also had a traumatic experience as an infant were he was kept in isolation with no human contact for a severe case of hives.

In college he had a bad experience during a psychology experiment where his ideas and beliefs were attacked, it left him distrusting of psychology professionals.

During his trial he fired his defense team because they were trying to convince the judge and jury he was mentally unstable.

He has an anti social personality and a major dislike of a technological based society.

His full manifesto is available on wikipedia.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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RE: Religion and Serial Killers - 7/25/2012 11:55:27 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Here is some information on the frontal lobe,
http://biology.about.com/od/anatomy/p/Frontal-Lobes.htm

There has also been studies concerning serial killers up bring and unsolved issues with there mother. Also recent studies have sugguested the high IQ are also related in mental illness. Remember Holmes was in a Ph.D program.


The carrot was not so bright as first portrayed. One of his mentors called him a 'dolt' and his academic achievements were ordinary.

Neuroscientists debunk idea Colorado suspect was supersmart

I would be suspicious of the business about serialkillers/massmurderers having unresolved issues with their mothers. The same used to be said about gay men.

You have to look at who was referring to him as a "Dolt". It's a relative term. A guy that a bunch of neuroscientists refer to as a "dolt" is still probably a hell of a lot more intelligent than 95% of the general population. Joe 6-pack would probably refer to him as 'genius'.


If you read the article you will see that he had average high school grades, never took any AP classes, and his work at science camp and University was jumbled and unremarkable. I understand your point, Hill, but the record seems to say that the carrot did not achieve very much. Of course, it is all quite possible that his failures were symptoms of mental illness.

He seems to have been lost in both the academic and social worlds.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 7/25/2012 11:59:17 AM >

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RE: Religion and Serial Killers - 7/25/2012 11:57:47 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

He has an anti social personality and a major dislike of a technological based society.


Were there any serial/mass killers without an anti-social personality? Seems to be a foregone conclusion.

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RE: Religion and Serial Killers - 7/25/2012 12:14:00 PM   
jlf1961


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Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Actually, it is not an anti social personality disorder that links serial killers, it is the fact that MOST are sociopaths, a big difference.

A person with an anti social personality goes to great lengths to limit social interaction. They are usually noted for being short tempered and often uncomfortable when exposed to large groups of people.

For the record, I have been diagnosed with a mild form of anti-social personality disorder, however I am not a sociopath. I avoid large groups and social interactions like the plague, I am far more at home with my own company than anyone else.

I also own firearms.

In other words Vincent, by your assumption, I am a potential serial killer.

Please note, I was also a sniper in the army, so I would be a well trained serial killer.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Religion and Serial Killers - 7/25/2012 2:12:44 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

In other words Vincent, by your assumption, I am a potential serial killer.


Not at all, Jeff. I made no assumption that antisocial behavior disorder was predictive of serial/mass murder. I was only suggesting that the act of large scale killing essentially portrayed an antisocial personality. It certainly seems not to be a sociable or friendly activity. I grant there are other factors to consider [understatement there] like depression, disorientation, hostility, etc. Now, maybe I am not using 'antisocial personality' in the strictist psychiatric definition, but the carrot and his ilk are socially destructive individuals. Safe to say, no?

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RE: Religion and Serial Killers - 7/25/2012 4:33:46 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Less than Zero was the worst book I ever bothered to finish.

Thank you for saying that! I made it to within ten pages of the end, thought "I can't take another minute of these people," and hurled the book across the room.


The only reason I managed to finish it is because it's a very short book, I read quickly, was on the bike at the gym for the home stretch, and couldn't afford to hurl my Kindle

I'm struggling to finish 50 Shades, but that's another thread.

I am enjoying The Brain That Changes Itself: Stories of Personal Triumph from the Frontiers of Brain Science and wonder if the psychiatrist has done any research on serial killers.

(There, back on topic :)


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RE: Religion and Serial Killers - 7/25/2012 6:18:02 PM   
jlf1961


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From: Somewhere Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

In other words Vincent, by your assumption, I am a potential serial killer.


Not at all, Jeff. I made no assumption that antisocial behavior disorder was predictive of serial/mass murder. I was only suggesting that the act of large scale killing essentially portrayed an antisocial personality. It certainly seems not to be a sociable or friendly activity. I grant there are other factors to consider [understatement there] like depression, disorientation, hostility, etc. Now, maybe I am not using 'antisocial personality' in the strictist psychiatric definition, but the carrot and his ilk are socially destructive individuals. Safe to say, no?


You are confusing anti social behavior disorder with sociopathic disorder.

Even then, because someone is a sociopath, they do not necessarily become serial killers or spree killers. There are functional sociopaths, in fact one study I watched on Discovery Channel seems to attribute being super successful in business to people who are mild sociopaths.

Then there is the fact that some spree or mass killers seem to have suffered a psychotic break, triggered by a traumatic event in their lives.

There are ongoing studies of serial killers going on studying both the psychological and neurological aspects of the person, studying the personality and the function of the brain.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Religion and Serial Killers - 7/25/2012 7:54:24 PM   
SadistDave


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Status: offline 		Currently, the majority of mass murderers in the world tend to strap on bomb vests and blow themselves up in a fit of Islamic extremism.

It's just not politically correct for the FBI to say that.

-SD-

(in reply to Musicmystery)
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RE: Religion and Serial Killers - 7/25/2012 7:57:07 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Oh, read the international news, not just the right-wing stuff.

Horrible stuff happens around the world every day. Not just the myopia Americans look at.

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RE: Religion and Serial Killers - 7/25/2012 8:49:00 PM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

Currently, the majority of mass murderers in the world tend to strap on bomb vests and blow themselves up in a fit of Islamic extremism.

It's just not politically correct for the FBI to say that.

-SD-


Would someone who sits at a computer screen playing with a toggle switch half-way around the world qualify as a mass murderer? Especially considering the vague encompassing parameters employed as to whom deserves the drone-load?

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RE: Religion and Serial Killers - 7/26/2012 12:54:50 AM   
SadistDave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5


quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

Currently, the majority of mass murderers in the world tend to strap on bomb vests and blow themselves up in a fit of Islamic extremism.

It's just not politically correct for the FBI to say that.

-SD-


Would someone who sits at a computer screen playing with a toggle switch half-way around the world qualify as a mass murderer? Especially considering the vague encompassing parameters employed as to whom deserves the drone-load?
3

Well, if you want to have this ridiculous argument... I will agree it is murder and I'm pleased as punch to do it. It is a function of a military at war to kill people. I'm actually pro-death when it comes to legitimate reasons people should just die, so you may want to read this post and re-think this position before you respond.

If we are going to figure that the actions of a military as murder, I am more than willing to concede that point for you. And if we are going to count government sanctioned acts a murder, I suggest you look up the CDC website and find the statistics for all the state sponsored murder caused by abortions in America. You might want to look extra hard at the racist practices of the left of placing an overwhelming number of abortion clinics in poor black neighborhoods and the number of black children snuffed by the lefts brand of legalized murder. I'll get to that in a minute...

In American liberal land, it is a function of peace to innocently murder huge segments of the population through abortion. I'm pretty sure that as someone who is pro-death, my understanding that genocide for political purposes is just plain evil puts me on a higher moral plane than people who don't see the distinction between genocide in peace and collateral damage in war.

I'll save you some trouble. Here are the numbers from 2007 that clearly show that liberals who support abortion are supporting the genocide of the American black. Again, I'll save you some trouble. After discounting all the cases the CDC did not count, there were still 827,609 abortions in 2007. Of those. Scan down to table 13, and you will find that the average for the number of black who recieve abortions every year is pretty stable around 38%.

So, if you're a liberal and you support abortion, I'd say the numbers are pretty clear that you not only take the prize for state sanctioned murder, but it also negates the argument that conservatives are racist. They are the only people standing between American blacks and this liberal induced genocide.

If you would care to debate this point and show that drones killed more than 827,609 in 2007, I'd love to see your data. I'm willing to bet that you are tragically misinformed on this point. Oh wait, here it is! Lets see... This is America in Afghanistan and Pakistan... The 8 year high (that's eight years as compared to 2007 numbers on abortion) comes to a whopping 5,300 or so if we add those years together. Well shy of the 827,600 mark of 2007 state sanctioned murders supported by the liberals at abortion clinics around the country.

Shall we can stick to the topic of religious extremists and someone can provide the numbers that supports this theory that extreme Catholics or rabid Protestants kill more people than extreme Islamists? Lets see your numbers and have that conversation, because this notion of yours about drones is really a non-starter. Lets see dsome hard numbers here, not blog posts.

-SD-

< Message edited by SadistDave -- 7/26/2012 12:59:42 AM >

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RE: Religion and Serial Killers - 7/26/2012 7:43:01 AM   
Nosathro


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From: Orange County, California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

The Unabomber, Ted Kaczynsk had a very high IQ, he also had a traumatic experience as an infant were he was kept in isolation with no human contact for a severe case of hives.

In college he had a bad experience during a psychology experiment where his ideas and beliefs were attacked, it left him distrusting of psychology professionals.

During his trial he fired his defense team because they were trying to convince the judge and jury he was mentally unstable.

He has an anti social personality and a major dislike of a technological based society.

His full manifesto is available on wikipedia.


Interesting, it has been reported that Holmes failed an oral exaim in the Ph.D program, he responded by purchasing a rifle. Some say this was the snapping point. In my experience with those with mental disorders, stress could be a trigger, there appears in many a lack of cooping skills.

(in reply to jlf1961)
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