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Feds May Outlaw Treading On Tea Party's Favorite Snake - 5/12/2012 3:43:37 PM   
Fightdirecto


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Feds May Outlaw Treading On Tea Party's Favorite Snake

quote:

In what might be one of the tea party's greatest unintended victories, treading on the snake depicted on the protest movement's ubiquitous "Don't Tread On Me" flags could soon become illegal.

The iconic yellow flag, originally designed by the American revolutionary Christopher Gadsden circa 1775, features a drawing of the eastern diamondback rattlesnake, which was once plentiful in longleaf pine forests across the Southeast. But while the Gadsden flag has proliferated as a symbol of fierce resistance to "Big Government," the eastern diamondback has gotten clubbed, shot, and bulldozed by the private sector to the point that on Wednesday the US Fish and Wildlife Service announced that it's considering protecting the snake under the Endangered Species Act.

Tea partiers aren't happy about efforts to save their symbol. "They're up to their kneecaps with rattlesnakes in Texas!" says Alan Caruba, a blogger for Tea Party Nation, who added that it wouldn't really bother him if they weren't...

A press release from the Center for Biological Diversity, which petitioned the federal government to protect the diamondback, argues that its decline is symptomatic of the unsustainable development of longleaf pine forest throughout the Southeast. The snake now occupies only about 3 percent of its original range.

Of course, those kinds of facts aren't about to win over Tea Party Nation's Caruba, who, like many tea partiers, sees the Endangered Species Act as just another part of the nefarious "Agenda 21," a supposed plot by the United Nations to convert Earth into a giant biosphere reserve.


Report: Tea Party's Favorite Snake Needs Government Aid

quote:

Scientific American reports that the Center For Biological Diversity, along with Protect All Living Species and the delightfully acronymed One More Generation, have petitioned the US Fish and Wildlife Service to classify the eastern diamondback rattlesnake as an endangered species. The rattler is down to 3 percent of its original habitat, and according to the Center For Biological Diversity, its population has fallen from 3 million to 100,000.

From the report:

"The eastern diamondback rattlesnake is a wildlife icon of North America," said biologist Bruce Means, president and executive director of the Coastal Plains Institute, in a prepared statement. Means was also one of the petitioners. "Africa has its lion, Asia its tiger, and we can boast of this marvelous 'Don't Tread On Me' snake. Like so many others, it's a wildlife treasure that we must not allow to go extinct. Remaining habitat for the snake must be preserved, and negative public attitudes toward these nonaggressive animals must be reversed."

But how will this sit with tea partiers?...many tea partiers view the Endangered Species Act as a tool of an overreaching federal government — if not something even more nefarious. In Florida, conservative activists are fighting to roll back manatee protection rules because they believe the regulations are part of a United Nations plan called "Agenda 21," which they fear will force humans to live in designated areas and turn the rest of the planet into protected biosphere reserves.


Ironic - is it not?

My favorite Gasden Flag variant:




Attachment (1)

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RE: Feds May Outlaw Treading On Tea Party's Favorite Snake - 5/12/2012 3:47:40 PM   
Real0ne


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Never mind, read that too quickly, if they want plenty of rattlers just walk the banks of the missisloppy

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 5/12/2012 3:50:44 PM >


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RE: Feds May Outlaw Treading On Tea Party's Favorite Snake - 5/12/2012 4:53:40 PM   
TheHeretic


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There are some critters I'd be perfectly happy to see go extinct.

Step one one of those, and a fine is the least of your worries.

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RE: Feds May Outlaw Treading On Tea Party's Favorite Snake - 5/12/2012 5:36:56 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

There are some critters I'd be perfectly happy to see go extinct.

Step one one of those, and a fine is the least of your worries.



Ever hear of the "food chain".

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RE: Feds May Outlaw Treading On Tea Party's Favorite Snake - 5/12/2012 5:42:02 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

Tea partiers aren't happy about efforts to save their symbol. "They're up to their kneecaps with rattlesnakes in Texas!" says Alan Caruba, a blogger for Tea Party Nation, who added that it wouldn't really bother him if they weren't...


It would appear that this particular tb blooger is unaware that there are more than one specie of rattle snake. Some are quite plentiful and are taken by sport hunters for food. Others, like the mojave green, are an endangered specie and are protected from hunting.
If one crawls into your shower you are not breaking the law to shorten it and cook it.

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RE: Feds May Outlaw Treading On Tea Party's Favorite Snake - 5/12/2012 5:43:56 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

Tea partiers aren't happy about efforts to save their symbol. "They're up to their kneecaps with rattlesnakes in Texas!" says Alan Caruba, a blogger for Tea Party Nation, who added that it wouldn't really bother him if they weren't...


It would appear that this particular tb blooger is unaware that there are more than one specie of rattle snake. Some are quite plentiful and are taken by sport hunters for food. Others, like the mojave green, are an endangered specie and are protected from hunting.
If one crawls into your shower you are not breaking the law to shorten it and cook it.


They're delicious.

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RE: Feds May Outlaw Treading On Tea Party's Favorite Snake - 5/12/2012 5:47:21 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Ever hear of the "food chain".



Yes. Ever heard of looking things up, before simply spouting nonsense?

quote:

The Mojave Rattlesnake is not listed as endangered or threatened.


http://www.blueplanetbiomes.org/mojave_rattlesnake.htm

Though any Green that mind find the way into my yard most certainly is an endangered individual of the species.

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RE: Feds May Outlaw Treading On Tea Party's Favorite Snake - 5/12/2012 5:47:42 PM   
dcnovice


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From Smithsonian Zoogoer:

Fear and Fascination

Snakes have an image problem. That makes saving them a challenge.

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RE: Feds May Outlaw Treading On Tea Party's Favorite Snake - 5/12/2012 5:56:52 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice


Snakes have an image problem.



Here are some images that are part of the problem...

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RE: Feds May Outlaw Treading On Tea Party's Favorite Snake - 5/12/2012 6:21:56 PM   
dcnovice


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Oh my.

Not pretty, I agree, and potentially tragic.

But also pretty rare.

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it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: Feds May Outlaw Treading On Tea Party's Favorite Snake - 5/12/2012 8:28:02 PM   
fucktoyprincess


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

Ironic - is it not?



Actually, no.

When a group repeatedly ends up demanding/relying on/needing exactly that which it wants to deny others, irony is no longer the word...

< Message edited by fucktoyprincess -- 5/12/2012 8:29:25 PM >


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RE: Feds May Outlaw Treading On Tea Party's Favorite Snake - 5/13/2012 12:06:14 AM   
erieangel


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quote:

Ironic - is it not?



Not at all. The tea party doesn't seem to care about the earth, wildlife; quality of our air or water; or what we might leave behind for future generations.




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RE: Feds May Outlaw Treading On Tea Party's Favorite Snake - 5/14/2012 8:34:53 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

Tea partiers aren't happy about efforts to save their symbol. "They're up to their kneecaps with rattlesnakes in Texas!" says Alan Caruba, a blogger for Tea Party Nation, who added that it wouldn't really bother him if they weren't...


It would appear that this particular tb blooger is unaware that there are more than one specie of rattle snake. Some are quite plentiful and are taken by sport hunters for food. Others, like the mojave green, are an endangered specie and are protected from hunting.
If one crawls into your shower you are not breaking the law to shorten it and cook it.


They're delicious.



Quite true but they are rather delicate and if over cooked will be rubbery and tough.

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RE: Feds May Outlaw Treading On Tea Party's Favorite Snake - 5/14/2012 8:43:01 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Ever hear of the "food chain".



Yes. Ever heard of looking things up, before simply spouting nonsense?


Advice you should heed before stuffing both feet in your mouth at the same time.

quote:

The Mojave Rattlesnake is not listed as endangered or threatened.


http://www.dfg.ca.gov/serp.html?q=Crotalus+scutulatus&cx=001779225245372747843%3A3y4rnp6j9ny&cof=FORID%3A10&ie=UTF-8&submit.x=14&submit.y=12


quote:

Though any Green that mind find the way into my yard most certainly is an endangered individual of the species.


In my back yard it would not be endangered it would be lunch.

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RE: Feds May Outlaw Treading On Tea Party's Favorite Snake - 5/14/2012 6:10:59 PM   
TheHeretic


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Thompson! You posted a link! It just went to a page of more links, and not to anything that backed up your bullshit assertion that Mojave Greens are an endangered species, but points for effort all the same.

Oh. Here's another with their status

quote:

Conservation Status

The following status listings come from the Special Animals List which is published several times each year by the California Department of Fish and Game.

This snake is not included on the Special Animals List, which indicates that there are no significant conservation concerns for it in California.


http://www.californiaherps.com/snakes/pages/c.s.scutulatus.html



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RE: Feds May Outlaw Treading On Tea Party's Favorite Snake - 5/14/2012 6:57:29 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Thompson! You posted a link! It just went to a page of more links, and not to anything that backed up your bullshit assertion that Mojave Greens are an endangered species, but points for effort all the same.

Oh. Here's another with their status

quote:

Conservation Status

The following status listings come from the Special Animals List which is published several times each year by the California Department of Fish and Game.

This snake is not included on the Special Animals List, which indicates that there are no significant conservation concerns for it in California.


http://www.californiaherps.com/snakes/pages/c.s.scutulatus.html




For those who need to be spoon fed.
First you click on the link I provided.
from the links provided by that site it would seem pretty obvious that this would be your first choice.


Restricted Species Laws and Regulations Manual 671 (FG 1312d)


Once you have downloaded that pdf go to
section 671
chapter c
part 7
paragraph e
which says:

quote:

(E) Family Crotalidae -Pit Vipers: All species (D), except Crotalus viridis (Western rattlesnake), Crotalus atrox (Western diamondback rattlesnake), Crotalus ruber (red diamondback rattlesnake), Crotalus scutulatus (Mojave rattlesnake), Crotalus mitchelli (speckled rattlesnake) and Crotalus cerastes (Sidewinder) not restricted.


< Message edited by thompsonx -- 5/14/2012 7:01:28 PM >

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RE: Feds May Outlaw Treading On Tea Party's Favorite Snake - 5/14/2012 7:29:18 PM   
TheHeretic


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Which is supposed to mean what, Thompson? I've posted direct and easily accessed links twice now that specifically say the Green is not listed as an endangered species, and has no special conservation status.

Just because you post in bold, and now with attempts at links and cryptic snips from somewhere doesn't change the fact that you posted nonsense. Hunting restrictions (I'm assuming - this 'puter has a weird allergy to Adobe Acrobat, and your snip was meaningless without context) are not a conservation status, and certainly don't mean a critter is on the endangered list.

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RE: Feds May Outlaw Treading On Tea Party's Favorite Snake - 5/14/2012 7:39:55 PM   
ClassIsInSession


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I don't think the tea party concept of limited government (a founding principle of our nation) and conservation efforts need to be mutually exclusive. For example, I intentionally let one of my flower beds in the corner of my yard run wild specifically to give a habitat to the horned lizards here in North Texas, and as a result, I've seen evidence that their population is growing. That being said, I'm pretty conservative and I do believe in some of the tea party principles. However, the Tea Party as mainstream media covers it has been hijacked for quite some time.

I think the bigger part of the equation really boils down to working with the technology we have at present. We simply cannot stop our culture dead in its tracks to spend a decade developing alternative means of doing the things we need to do. There has to be some simultaneous development/replacement of technologies happening. As an example, the trend to rid the world of incandescent bulbs was initially a noble act of trying to conserve energy but the problem of mercury in the flourescents could well be an even bigger problem. I simply waited till LED bulbs were further developed and with increased production, reduced in price and began replacing bulbs. As a result of my patience, I am saving 80% of the energy formerly consumed rather than 20% with the flourescents, and have no disposal problems. The added bonus is that the LED bulbs last considerably longer as well and now have a more natural light than the flourescent bulbs.

Typically, decisions made in haste are poor ones.

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RE: Feds May Outlaw Treading On Tea Party's Favorite Snake - 5/14/2012 7:48:21 PM   
TheHeretic


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Let's take you by the hand, Thompson, and spoon feed this to you, shall we?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crotalus_scutulatus#Conservation_status

quote:

This species is classified as Least Concern (LC) on the IUCN Red List of Threatened Species (v3.1, 2001).[8] Species are listed as such due to their wide distribution, presumed large population, or because it is unlikely to be declining fast enough to qualify for listing in a more threatened category. The population trend is stable. Year assessed: 2007.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IUCN_Red_List#1994_categories_and_criteria

quote:

The IUCN Red List of Threatened Species (also known as the IUCN Red List or Red Data List), founded in 1963, is the world's most comprehensive inventory of the global conservation status of biological species. The International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN) is the world's main authority on the conservation status of species. A series of Regional Red Lists are produced by countries or organizations, which assess the risk of extinction to species within a political management unit.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Least_Concern

quote:

Since 2001 the category has had the abbreviation "LC", following the IUCN 2001 Categories & Criteria (version 3.1).[1] However, around 20% of Least Concern taxa (3261 of 15636) in the IUCN database use the code "LR/lc", which indicates they have not been re-evaluated since 2000. Prior to 2001 "least concern" was a subcategory of the "Lower Risk" category and assigned the code "LR/lc" or (lc).

While "Least Concern" is not considered a red listed category by the IUCN, the 2006 Red List still assigns the category to 15636 taxa. The number of animal species listed in this category totals 14033 (which includes several undescribed species such as a frog from the genus Philautus[2]). There are also 101 animal subspecies listed and 1500 plant taxa (1410 species, 55 subspecies, and 35 varieties). There are also two animal subpopulations listed: the Australasian and Southern African subpopulations of Spiny Dogfish. No fungi or protista have the classification, though only four species in those kingdoms have been evaluated by the IUCN. Humans qualify for this category, and in 2008 were formally assessed[3] as such by the IUCN.


I run into this nonsense about Green's being endangered fairly often, including from people who damn well ought to know better. It's a common bit of rural mythology. Instead of just admitting you believed something which turns out to be wrong, you are puffing up, and shaking your tail like a gopher snake running a bluff. They get a load of #8, or their heads chopped off with a shovel, too.

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 5/14/2012 7:49:42 PM >

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RE: Feds May Outlaw Treading On Tea Party's Favorite Snake - 5/14/2012 8:12:32 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

The IUCN Red List of Threatened Species (also known as the IUCN Red List or Red Data List), founded in 1963, is the world's most comprehensive inventory of the global conservation status of biological species. The International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN) is the world's main authority on the conservation status of species. A series of Regional Red Lists are produced by countries or organizations, which assess the risk of extinction to species within a political management unit.


As someone who deals with this stuff for a living, let me amplify Rich's point and say that the IUCN Red List is the gold standard for finding out the conservation status of a species.

Here's the listing for the eastern diamondback. One thing to note: Being "least concern," while certainly preferable to other statuses, doesn't necessarily mean that the species is out of the woods (so to speak). So it's worth peeking at the fine print for population and threats.

Another important source for Americans is the US Fish &Wildlife Service, which identifies the status (which may have legal ramifications) of species here in America. F&W doesn't seem to have a listing for the eastern diamondback.

Edited because I forgot to preview.

< Message edited by dcnovice -- 5/14/2012 8:14:30 PM >


_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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