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Experienced dog owners, I need your opinion - 4/9/2012 3:27:48 PM

Iamsemisweet

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I have an 11 yo border collie mix, that was foisted off on me a number of years ago. Of all my dogs, and I have had 3-5 at any given time, he has been the most expensive in terms of medical issues. Plus, he is kind of accident prone. Anyway, he was just diagnosed with a cancerous tumor on the side of his muzzle. He is a good dog, but there is a limit to how much I want to/can spend on him. What is reasonable to do in these circumstances? I have a predetermined amount I will spend on each of my dogs, and it goes down as they get older. How do you handle this? My other dogs have all lived to be very old. Looks like my 14 yo Tervuren is going to outlive my BC

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RE: Experienced dog owners, I need your opinion - 4/9/2012 3:44:04 PM

Rule

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I am not an experienced dog owner.

My sister had a dog in similar condition as yours. She brought him many times to a town about 120-140 kilometers away to have the tumor irradiated. It cost her about two and a half thousand euros. The dog died anyway from the cancer.

My advice: do not spend money on a lost cause; have him put down.

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)

Post #: 2

RE: Experienced dog owners, I need your opinion - 4/9/2012 3:50:31 PM

areallivehuman

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I put down my 11 year old hound last year, about 10 months after he was diagnosed with lymphoma. I waited until there was a definite decrease in the quality of his life. I wasn't going to wait until he could no longer walk. When it became evident he was in some discomfort, I had him put down.

(in reply to Rule)

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RE: Experienced dog owners, I need your opinion - 4/9/2012 3:51:36 PM

Iamsemisweet

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I would never do radiation or chemo with my dogs. I have known people who have done that and spent a lot of money for a low quality of life for the poor dog. I don't object to paying for the surgery to remove the tumor, though. It's about 800 bucks, which is about what I would spend on a dog this old, who is otherwise very healthy.

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Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
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RE: Experienced dog owners, I need your opinion - 4/9/2012 4:36:30 PM

OsideGirl

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I guess it comes down to survival chances and quality of life. I've haven't had a dog with cancer, so that's one of those things I haven't thought out.

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RE: Experienced dog owners, I need your opinion - 4/9/2012 4:49:50 PM

girlieslut

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I'm a very experienced dog owner. There are so many young healthy dogs available to give a home, I do not spend more than $300 on a pet's illness, give or take.

Frankly, there are also so many children and human beings who need help (like Wounded Warriors), I always feel wrong for spending money on an old, ill dog, no matter how much I love him.

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RE: Experienced dog owners, I need your opinion - 4/9/2012 5:36:02 PM

Iamsemisweet

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It would certainly be tempting not to spend the money on him. He got kicked by a horse a few years ago, and I spent 2K putting his stupid little skull back together. I think I would feel wrong not doing something to save him, though.

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RE: Experienced dog owners, I need your opinion - 4/9/2012 6:05:05 PM

Muttling

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This is a very difficult and very personal question.

I had a german shepard with chronic orthopedic problems who I spent a ton of money on. I honestly don't know when it would have been reasonable to have let nature take it's course and let him go, but I think I went beyond that point.

I had a great dane who I kept far beyond the breed's life expectancy at the expense of my carpet as well as my wallet. I could have kept her longer, but it's hard to say when it's humane to do so and we chose to put her down.

On the subject of how much is too much, $300 was mentioned above and that's a very low threshold to me. One really good infection or easily cured injury will quickly cost twice that amount. If you want to keep a dog very long term (especially large or giant dog breeds like me) you need to be ready for the rare vet bill that approaches $1,000.

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RE: Experienced dog owners, I need your opinion - 4/9/2012 6:09:12 PM

OsideGirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling

On the subject of how much is too much, $300 was mentioned above and that's a very low threshold to me.

To me as well, a normal vet bill with vaccinations, flea, heartworm and an ear infection was close to that. I wasn't about to put an otherwise healthy puppy to sleep because of a $ threshold.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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RE: Experienced dog owners, I need your opinion - 4/9/2012 6:23:00 PM

erieangel

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I don't currently have a dog, but I have 2 cats (down from 4 after giving 2 away) that were all stray/abandoned kittens. One was found in a box with his deceased siblings, his eyes not even open yet, another was being cared for as much as possible by a neighborhood dog, one is feral and the last was also found in a box on the street corner. I've paid a lot of money on everything from kitten formula and kitten feeding bottles to repeated vet visit because they all have had huge health problems., which is why I finally gave 2 of them away--I just couldn't afford it anymore.

My mom had a border collie, though (aren't they just beauties?). He was hit by a car when he got out of the yard and was never the same. Still, he lived for 14 more years. He had serious arthritis and could barely climb down the stairs to get off the back stoop and started having seizures in his last 2 years of life. It got to a point, where he would just lay in one place all day, unless my sister carried him outside to do his business, but he was incontinent, too. It was time to put him down. My sister and I sat with him when he was given the injection.

If you can afford to do it, have the tumor removed unless the cancer has already spread, in which case you'd be spending good after bad and maybe letting the cancer run its course would be best. I sense you will know when it is time to put him down and now obviously isn't that time for you. Do what you can afford to do, ease his suffering as much as possible and then hold him when he gets the injection.

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)

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RE: Experienced dog owners, I need your opinion - 4/9/2012 7:11:53 PM

kitkat105

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We recently went through a similar situation. My little terrier, at age 14 got diagnosed with gingival (gum) cancer. Initially it was confined to his soft palate so he had 3 lots of surgical debridement over an 18 month period and was seemingly cured. We couldn't afford chemo/radiation nor does my area have MRI/CT scanning for pets so we thought we'd made the right choice. Unfortunately, what we (or the vet) didnt realise as the cancer had spread through his hard palate, into sinuses. Since there was nothing surgical all we could do is antibiotics to prevent infection from food getting in there. We made the decision we'd just monitor him for quality of life.

In the end, the tumour isn't what killed him.. due to arthritis in his legs, he tripped and slipped a disc in his spine paralysing him from the 'waist' down. He had to be put to sleep.

If it were me, I would see if the vet could do an examination under anaesthetic to determine the extent of the tumour and proceed from there.

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RE: Experienced dog owners, I need your opinion - 4/9/2012 7:33:16 PM

LaTigresse

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For me, it is simply decided on a case by case basis. Ultimately, quality of life balanced by what I can reasonably afford. I won't spend a fortune on an old dog that hasn't got long to live anyway.

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RE: Experienced dog owners, I need your opinion - 4/9/2012 7:56:25 PM

Duskypearls

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If it were me, I'd get on the [email protected]

Many cancers can be treated with this plant alkaloid, internally and externally. Here's the site for the Vet who makes it: http://www.buckmountainbotanicals.net/treatments/neoplasene.html

While interning last year for a holistic that uses this, I got to see how quick and effective it may be.

I've also heard about Avemar: http://www.avemar.com/

http://www.akitarescue.com/Alternative%20Cancer%20Therapies.htm

Good luck w/treating your dear dog.

< Message edited by Duskypearls -- 4/9/2012 7:59:15 PM >

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RE: Experienced dog owners, I need your opinion - 4/9/2012 8:00:11 PM

Hillwilliam

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My old bloodhound is 12 or so (ancient for the breed) she has had a couple of cancer surgeries but it's now popping out all over the place. As for right now, they don't cause her pain. I just take it month by month.

I have had several dogs and they all one day give me that look that says "Daddy, it hurts, you have to do something to make it better".

It's a sad damn day but you have to do it because they trust you to keep them from hurting.

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RE: Experienced dog owners, I need your opinion - 4/9/2012 8:12:59 PM

bamabbwsub

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~FR~

Ask your vet what his prognosis is. How much time will the surgery buy him? Will it increase/decrease/not affect not only his longevity, but also his quality of life? Is he in discomfort or pain now?

I spent a great deal of money on an 8-year-old cat who had breast cancer and had to have 3 breasts removed. I got 7 more years with her, and it was worth every penny.

For me, also, it's a question of whether I can sleep well at night with the decision that I've made. If I feel in my gut that I should bite the bullet and give him every chance I can, then it's worth it to me to be able to know that I at least gave him every chance I possibly could. Likewise, if I feel in my gut that letting him go is the most humane thing I could do for him, then I can sleep well at night knowing that I kept him from suffering.

It's a difficult decision to make, and I don't envy your having to make it. I wish you and your BC the very best with whatever you decide.

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RE: Experienced dog owners, I need your opinion - 4/9/2012 8:16:01 PM

bamabbwsub

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quote:

I have had several dogs and they all one day give me that look that says "Daddy, it hurts, you have to do something to make it better".

It's a sad damn day but you have to do it because they trust you to keep them from hurting.

Very well said, Hillwilliam.

_____________________________

"Everyone is normal until you get to know them." - Dave Sim

I rescue animals. My pockets and gas tank are always empty. My home is always hairy and my inbox full of sadness, but my heart is full when seeing those that are saved.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

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RE: Experienced dog owners, I need your opinion - 4/9/2012 8:41:55 PM

slvemike4u

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Yeah Hill pretty much summed it up for me,wasn't a couple of months ago I had to put down my girl "snuggles",money is certainly a consideration due to my near terminal lack of it.
Fact of the matter though,if it is within my reach,and can ,in any way shape or form,give some more quality time to my dog...than I will find a way.
I'm a dog person,I always have one and I always smother her/him with love...and always,always get way more back,so it's an easy call for me...even when it means my heart will break.
I do whats best for the dog.

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RE: Experienced dog owners, I need your opinion - 4/10/2012 12:21:00 AM

LadyConstanze

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

I have an 11 yo border collie mix, that was foisted off on me a number of years ago. Of all my dogs, and I have had 3-5 at any given time, he has been the most expensive in terms of medical issues. Plus, he is kind of accident prone. Anyway, he was just diagnosed with a cancerous tumor on the side of his muzzle. He is a good dog, but there is a limit to how much I want to/can spend on him. What is reasonable to do in these circumstances? I have a predetermined amount I will spend on each of my dogs, and it goes down as they get older. How do you handle this? My other dogs have all lived to be very old. Looks like my 14 yo Tervuren is going to outlive my BC

Both of my Dobies are rescues, both of them are accident prone and incredibly expensive, both are insured though the insurance doesn't cover everything (the girl we picked the wrong insurance for so they stopped paying for her arthritis treatment after a year), I joke with friends that they should be renamed into "mansion" or "designer wardrobe" maybe "world cruise" or something like that, but I don't grudge them a penny, in fact I would possibly sell everything I own if they needed treatment. I had to have pets put down and it's gutting, but I made for them the choice I would make for myself - once their quality of life suffers significantly and living is more pain than enjoyment for them, it's the last kindness I can give them and it would be selfish to keep them around because it pains me to part with them.

In case you can't afford to spend the money on treatment, you can't afford it, if it's the difference of affording a few items that you want but not need, I would spend it on the animal, but it's a choice you have to make. My choice might be different from yours but there is no right or wrong. For me they're not just pets, they're beloved family members so there's hardly a limit on what I spend on them. I keep on joking that for "free dogs" (and cats and rat) they are pretty damned expensive, but it's pretty hard to put a price on feelings.

In short, whatever you do, as long as the animal doesn't have to suffer, you're the one who has to make the call about what you are willing to do. In case the cancer treatment would be too expensive for your means, make sure the poor mutt leaves the world without suffering.

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RE: Experienced dog owners, I need your opinion - 4/10/2012 12:25:00 AM

LadyConstanze

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

I would never do radiation or chemo with my dogs. I have known people who have done that and spent a lot of money for a low quality of life for the poor dog. I don't object to paying for the surgery to remove the tumor, though. It's about 800 bucks, which is about what I would spend on a dog this old, who is otherwise very healthy.

I disagree with that a bit, I went through chemo after cancer surgery about 15 years ago, the reason why I'm still around, yep, it was pretty hellish but I'm clear now and have been for a long time, and from what I have heard chemo has come a damned long way and some people don't suffer the sickness and nausea anymore. If there was a fighting chance, I would let the animal have it, but if it would be just prolonging long term suffering, that would be cruelty. Let me put it this way, if I had the choice of being miserable but getting my life and quality of life back - yes. If I could live but would suffer permanent pain and nausea - NO.

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RE: Experienced dog owners, I need your opinion - 4/10/2012 1:06:51 AM

myotherself

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I agree with others who say you need a frank discussion with your vet. If there is a good chance that chemo/radio will be successful, then that option I would consider. If it's just delaying the inevitable and won't give the dog good quality of life, then look at palliative care and when the dog becomes uncomfortable, the kindest thing would be to have it put to sleep.

I went through this 2 years ago with my parents and their dog. He was diagnosed with liver cancer. The vet offered a range of treatments that would give him a few extra months of life, but at huge cost. Mum (IMO very wisely) opted for palliative treatment that meant he wasn't in pain and could eat and drink comfortably. He had 2 months of being very lively, happy and appearing very healthy.

Then he started sleeping a lot and lost his energy. In the space of less than a week he lost a kilo in weight, and we took him to be euthanised. It was dreadful for us, but he didn't suffer and he passed in mum's arms, with his tail wagging.

As long as you put the happiness and comfort of the dog first, you should find the answer you seek.

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