Indefinite Military Detention: President Obama Waives It For Americans (Full Version)

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Lucylastic -> Indefinite Military Detention: President Obama Waives It For Americans (2/28/2012 6:29:12 PM)


WASHINGTON -- The White House released rules Tuesday evening waiving the most controversial piece of the new military detention law, and exempting U.S. citizens, as well as other broad categories of suspected terrorists.

Indefinite military detention of Americans and others was granted in the defense authorization bill President Barack Obama signed just before Christmas, sparking a storm of anger from civil libertarians on the left and right.

The new rules -- which deal with Section 1022 of the law -- are aimed at soothing many of their gravest concerns, an administration official said. Those concerns are led by the possibility that a law that grants the president authority to jail Americans without trial in Guantanamo Bay based on secret evidence could easily be abused.

"It is important to recognize that the scope of the new law is limited," says a fact sheet released by the White House, focusing on that worry. "Section 1022 does not apply to U.S. citizens, and the President has decided to waive its application to lawful permanent residents arrested in the United States."

It also addresses a concern of the White House and advocates of civil law enforcement, insisting that even if a suspect is transfered to the military, the person can be shifted back if the administration believes it is important for national security.

"An individual required to be held in military custody under Section 1022 may be returned to law enforcement custody for criminal trial," the White House summary says. "In addition, Section 1022 does not change the FBI’s authorities to respond to terrorism threats and these procedures do not apply to any individuals held in the custody of the Department of Defense, state and local law enforcement agencies acting under their authorities, or a foreign government."

Advocates for liberties will likely find the new rules for implementing reassuring, at least while President Obama is in office. But one of their big complaints with his signing of the law is that his policies only last so long as he is in office, and they will likely step up attempts to repeal it.

The rules also set out for the first time how they will be implemented, specifying that if local law enforcers suspect they've grabbed someone who would be covered under the law, they have to notify the Department of Justice. While law enforcers continue their work, the notification sets off an extensive review culminating in a decision by the attorney general, secretary of state, secretary of defense, secretary of homeland security, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and the director of national intelligence.

"The procedures ensure that an individual will be transferred from civilian to military custody only after a thorough evaluation of all of the relevant facts, based on the considered judgment of the President’s senior national security team, and not a rigid statutory requirement that does not account for the unique facts and circumstances of each case," the White House fact sheet says.

The categories of people exempted by the rules:

When placing a foreign country’s nationals or residents in military custody will impede counterterrorism cooperation;

When a foreign government indicates that it will not extradite or transfer suspects to the U.S. if the suspects may be placed in military custody;

When an individual is a U.S. lawful permanent resident who is arrested in this country or arrested by a federal agency on the basis of conduct taking place in this country;

When an individual has been arrested by a federal agency in the U.S. on charges other than terrorism offenses (unless such individual is subsequently charged with one or more terrorism offenses and held in federal custody in connection with those offenses);

When an individual has been arrested by state or local law enforcement, pursuant to state or local authority, and is transferred to federal custody;

When transferring an individual to military custody could interfere with efforts to secure an individual’s cooperation or confession; or

When transferring an individual to military custody could interfere with efforts to conduct joint trials with co-defendants who are ineligible for military custody or as to whom a determination has already been made to proceed with a prosecution in a federal or state court.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/28/indefinite-military-deten_n_1308129.html
there is a link to the downlodable pdf with the fact sheet

Also a link to the Presidents views on signing the NDAA back in december
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/12/31/statement-president-hr-1540
for what it is worth






SoftBonds -> RE: Indefinite Military Detention: President Obama Waives It For Americans (2/28/2012 6:41:52 PM)

Happy that we are treating criminals as criminals, instead of as POW's (a higher class of creature, and one that Al-Quida has no claim to belong to IMHO). Scared that as soon as a different President is in office they can change the rules back and throw anyone in jail "just cause."




SternSkipper -> RE: Indefinite Military Detention: President Obama Waives It For Americans (2/28/2012 8:19:32 PM)

quote:

Scared that as soon as a different President is in office they can change the rules back and throw anyone in jail "just cause."


Yeah, another good reason NOT to vote republican.




SternSkipper -> RE: Indefinite Military Detention: President Obama Waives It For Americans (2/28/2012 8:21:17 PM)

B
quote:

WASHINGTON -- The White House released rules Tuesday evening waiving the most controversial piece of the new military detention law, and exempting U.S. citizens, as well as other broad categories of suspected terrorists.

Indefinite military detention of Americans and others was granted in the defense authorization bill President Barack Obama signed just before Christmas, sparking a storm of anger from civil libertarians on the left and right.

The new rules -- which deal with Section 1022 of the law -- are aimed at soothing many of their gravest concerns, an administration official said. Those concerns are led by the possibility that a law that grants the president authority to jail Americans without trial in Guantanamo Bay based on secret evidence could easily be abused.


But Lucy... what will the KOOKS have to worry about now?... Oh yeah, Romney or Santorum doing well.




TheHeretic -> RE: Indefinite Military Detention: President Obama Waives It For Americans (2/28/2012 8:26:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds

Scared that as soon as a different President is in office they can change the rules back and throw anyone in jail "just cause."



Or that President Obama might decide it is more expedient to change his mind.




SternSkipper -> RE: Indefinite Military Detention: President Obama Waives It For Americans (2/28/2012 8:40:25 PM)

quote:

But Lucy... what will the KOOKS have to worry about now


That and being assured their usual table is still available[image]local://upfiles/18637/3101D291B58E402B9BD0BC3584B1D5F5.jpg[/image]




masternoname -> RE: Indefinite Military Detention: President Obama Waives It For Americans (2/28/2012 8:44:13 PM)


From the op

"Indefinite military detention of Americans and others was granted in the defense authorization bill President Barack Obama signed just before Christmas, sparking a storm of anger from civil libertarians on the left and right. "

what difference would it make...it wasn't a repub that signed it in the first place.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

quote:

Scared that as soon as a different President is in office they can change the rules back and throw anyone in jail "just cause."


Yeah, another good reason NOT to vote republican.


quote:

Indefinite military detention of Americans and others was granted in the defense authorization bill President Barack Obama signed just before Christmas, sparking a storm of anger from civil libertarians on the left and right.




masternoname -> RE: Indefinite Military Detention: President Obama Waives It For Americans (2/28/2012 8:46:26 PM)

while I agree the left froths at the mouth when either one of them is mentioned. I wouldn't go as far as to lable them all kooks

just the majority of them

quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

But Lucy... what will the KOOKS have to worry about now?... Oh yeah, Romney or Santorum doing well.





SoftBonds -> RE: Indefinite Military Detention: President Obama Waives It For Americans (2/28/2012 8:47:00 PM)

In other news, Santorum has promised not to use this law to imprison Catholics, and is willing to consider not using it on Baptists if they accept a Catholic Baptism...
Athiests and Mormons of course will be the first ones imprisoned.
(joke!)




masternoname -> RE: Indefinite Military Detention: President Obama Waives It For Americans (2/28/2012 8:48:13 PM)

did he make this promise before or after he lost two states tonight?

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds

In other news, Santorum has promised not to use this law to imprison Catholics, and is willing to consider not using it on Baptists if they accept a Catholic Baptism...
Athiests and Mormons of course will be the first ones imprisoned.
(joke!)





SternSkipper -> RE: Indefinite Military Detention: President Obama Waives It For Americans (2/28/2012 8:57:30 PM)

quote:


what difference would it make...it wasn't a repub that signed it in the first place.


Glad you asked ... see there's this thing called policy. And it often effects the way a law is implemented. Who signed it don't matter worth a fuck. It's under whose policy it's implemented... And if you read the rest of the OP's post then you already know that's the case.




SternSkipper -> RE: Indefinite Military Detention: President Obama Waives It For Americans (2/28/2012 9:08:24 PM)

quote:

Athiests and Mormons of course will be the first ones imprisoned.


You'll never take Donnie And Marie alive you lousy screws...

[image]local://upfiles/18637/F4383E2EDB1143C8B6DF1C5C54437402.jpg[/image]




SoftBonds -> RE: Indefinite Military Detention: President Obama Waives It For Americans (2/28/2012 9:21:42 PM)

Before, now he also states that the Auto Industry will be detained for UnAmerican activities...
quote:

ORIGINAL: masternoname

did he make this promise before or after he lost two states tonight?

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds

In other news, Santorum has promised not to use this law to imprison Catholics, and is willing to consider not using it on Baptists if they accept a Catholic Baptism...
Athiests and Mormons of course will be the first ones imprisoned.
(joke!)







SternSkipper -> RE: Indefinite Military Detention: President Obama Waives It For Americans (2/28/2012 9:23:25 PM)

quote:

did he make this promise before or after he lost two states tonight?


Nothing says "I suck" like a MARGINAL VICTORY IN YOUR HOME STATE
[image]local://upfiles/18637/556165926853481DA0DB165B92BAA1BC.jpg[/image]
Heh .... not too impressive a showing really. Sure he did great in Az where rumor has his Mad Gay Sheriff Buddy was threatening to deport you if you didn't "go in the stall for Mitt". And IN HIS HOME STATE ... which is NOT a winner take all state he practically TIED Santorum... That's nearly as PATHETIC as he'll do back here in Mass ... they're predicting Paul will beat him in the last state he held public office in... You guys better get to work blowing up that big John love doll... cause come the fall you're gonna need a better candidate. Not to burst your bubble but here's how tonight is reading from one of the more Romney sympathetic outlets:
Mitt Romney seized a pair of wins Tuesday night, but his far-closer-than-expected margin of victory in his native Michigan left the Republican race for the White House wide open.

Romney and Rick Santorum ran neck-and-neck in the Wolverine State but with the former Massachusetts governor awarded the victory just after 10 p.m.

The Associated Press and major networks called the Michigan race in Romney’s favor while he wielded a 41% to 37% lead with 75% of the precincts reporting, hardly the rout that weeks ago seemed certain.

Although Romney rolled to a blowout win in the Arizona primary Tuesday night, the drama in Michigan raised some troubling questions about the strength of the former front-runner’s candidacy.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/mitt-romney-yes-wealthy-image-hurt-campaign-article-1.1029896#ixzz1nkEZZMvW






SternSkipper -> RE: Indefinite Military Detention: President Obama Waives It For Americans (2/28/2012 9:27:42 PM)

quote:

while I agree the left froths at the mouth when either one of them is mentioned. I wouldn't go as far as to lable them all kooks

just the majority of them


You misread my post... What I was getting at is what will the local right wing kooks do now that their butter carving of Obama as Joe Stalin is starting to melt?




Fellow -> RE: Indefinite Military Detention: President Obama Waives It For Americans (2/29/2012 4:45:30 AM)

There is the law and there are "rules". Do not forget Obama (secretly) asked to include military detention of American citizens into the NDAA bill. It is all smoke and mirrors. By signing it quietly New Years eve hoping nobody raises noise Obama miscalculated. Now he tries to repair bad image. Currently, there is no need to enact the law, things are (still) under control. When time will come the "rules" will be changed by Obama or somebody else. Remember, Obama is very gifted major league liar.




SternSkipper -> RE: Indefinite Military Detention: President Obama Waives It For Americans (2/29/2012 7:31:24 AM)

quote:

There is the law and there are "rules". Do not forget Obama (secretly) asked to include military detention of American citizens into the NDAA bill


That my fence-posty friend is an unsupported lie. Of course you, in your close following of the legislative practice can show us the foot notes in the legislative process from up in Santa's villiage or wherever, can show us proof of your claim.

I'll just hang here and await the proof. Though I happen to KNOW that won't be forthcoming any time in the foreseeable.





Lucylastic -> RE: Indefinite Military Detention: President Obama Waives It For Americans (2/29/2012 7:38:37 AM)

he must have missed this..dated 31-12-11 from the white house site
The fact that I support this bill as a whole does not mean I agree with everything in it. In particular, I have signed this bill despite having serious reservations with certain provisions that regulate the detention, interrogation, and prosecution of suspected terrorists. Over the last several years, my Administration has developed an effective, sustainable framework for the detention, interrogation and trial of suspected terrorists that allows us to maximize both our ability to collect intelligence and to incapacitate dangerous individuals in rapidly developing situations, and the results we have achieved are undeniable. Our success against al-Qa'ida and its affiliates and adherents has derived in significant measure from providing our counterterrorism professionals with the clarity and flexibility they need to adapt to changing circumstances and to utilize whichever authorities best protect the American people, and our accomplishments have respected the values that make our country an example for the world.

Against that record of success, some in Congress continue to insist upon restricting the options available to our counterterrorism professionals and interfering with the very operations that have kept us safe. My Administration has consistently opposed such measures. Ultimately, I decided to sign this bill not only because of the critically important services it provides for our forces and their families and the national security programs it authorizes, but also because the Congress revised provisions that otherwise would have jeopardized the safety, security, and liberty of the American people. Moving forward, my Administration will interpret and implement the provisions described below in a manner that best preserves the flexibility on which our safety depends and upholds the values on which this country was founded.




tj444 -> RE: Indefinite Military Detention: President Obama Waives It For Americans (2/29/2012 8:07:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Over the last several years, my Administration has developed an effective, sustainable framework for the detention, interrogation and trial of suspected terrorists that allows us to maximize both our ability to collect intelligence and to incapacitate dangerous individuals in rapidly developing situations, and the results we have achieved are undeniable. Our success against al-Qa'ida and its affiliates and adherents has derived in significant measure from providing our counterterrorism professionals with the clarity and flexibility they need to adapt to changing circumstances and to utilize whichever authorities best protect the American people, and our accomplishments have respected the values that make our country an example for the world.

What does that mean? that Obamas people have learned to waterboard better than Bush's people did? [8|]

Its been 10 years since 9/11, OBL is dead, but now the US needs even more laws and power? And until the civil liberty people raised a big stink, Americans were included in this new law.. and all it will take is one incompetent home grown nutbar bomber type caught in a sting to get Americans easily included.. again..

[sm=2cents.gif]




Lucylastic -> RE: Indefinite Military Detention: President Obama Waives It For Americans (2/29/2012 8:29:09 AM)

That there have been attempted attacks since OBL was killed is public record.
By Americans and foreigners.
Terrorism isnt going away, homegrown assholes or foreign assholes.
All it would take is ONE bomb attack, and everyone would be screaming for more than his head. For not keeping the country safe as well as he possibly can. The NDAA was against terror suspects that has to include american citizens because they are also causing terror attacks.
Wether you like it or not... terrorism is insidious and hidden and tactics HAVE to adapt to the forces in play. I dont like it, but Yes, waiving it, makes a difference. FOR NOW.After the election.... allbets are off
God help the situation if the repubs win. All you need is crazy Iranians bombing up the joint
Its been almost 40 years since the UK was the target of mad bastard bombers. I dont like the restrictions in my homeland, but having been a victim of bomb attacks personally I can understand them.






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