RE: Guns in Elementary Schools (Full Version)

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Yachtie -> RE: Guns in Elementary Schools (2/1/2012 2:13:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: orimotis69

Come on guys it's so obvious! Once all those little 1st graders are packing heat they'll be able to take their little guns from their backpacks and take down the shooter if he tries to go into the classroom.


Not quite a first grader, but I have corresponded with a guy (former marine sniper) on a firearms forum whose 14 yo daughter could kick ass with a handgun. Would he trust her with a handgun in public? Damn right he would. When she was 16 she often carried, with his blessing.



Edwynn -> RE: Guns in Elementary Schools (2/1/2012 2:18:24 PM)


The reason that legalization of concealed carry has not caused more bloodshed is that illegal concealed carry existed for decades prior, so, along with the new requirements that legalization brought about (which means that, realistically, there is still a ton of illegal concealed carry going on), we would not likely see the stats change much.

Concealed carry has a history. Teachers packing heat in class, no precedent there, is a whole new ball game.







Yachtie -> RE: Guns in Elementary Schools (2/1/2012 2:28:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


The reason that legalization of concealed carry has not caused more bloodshed is that illegal concealed carry existed for decades prior, so, along with the new requirements that legalization brought about (which means that, realistically, there is still a ton of illegal concealed carry going on), we would not likely see the stats change much.

Concealed carry has a history. Teachers packing heat in class, no precedent there, is a whole new ball game.



If by illegal concealed carry (an oxymoron) you mean non-criminal / non-permit carry, then it just goes to show the an armed public is preferable as the criminal does as the criminal does. By extension, teachers etc are part of that public. You also assume the history does not include those teachers who packed.

The stats have changed in states with CC. Ref the work of John Lott in that respect.



Edwynn -> RE: Guns in Elementary Schools (2/1/2012 2:39:19 PM)



So then, whence all the fuss about legalization? Why all the promotion of and calling for contorted government treatment when carriers are just going to do what they are going to do? Why look for advancement of the gun agenda in schools? Are you guys not happy enough with the tremendous success achieved already? Once you've got kindergarten and daycare sufficiently in place, where are you going to proceed after that?




SternSkipper -> RE: Guns in Elementary Schools (2/1/2012 3:04:14 PM)

quote:

I can sit outside, wait for backup, control the perimeter, and let the shooter continue to shoot.


Unless there's a Dunkie's around.....  In which case a 'remote command center' gets set up.



slvemike4u -> RE: Guns in Elementary Schools (2/1/2012 3:06:16 PM)

And again arriving units would need someone to direct them as to where to go,no?
The right man for the right job,there you go subrob,all set up,nice and safe and comfy.



SternSkipper -> RE: Guns in Elementary Schools (2/1/2012 3:11:44 PM)

quote:

I always figured you for a "by the book" sort of guy......hey,you always need someone to direct the real men to go,right ?


Here... a visual aid might provide additional emphasis...



[image]local://upfiles/18637/C588181C7420418EB9B666A0161F9E52.jpg[/image]



Edwynn -> RE: Guns in Elementary Schools (2/1/2012 3:12:51 PM)



"Fire arms 101A; How to defend yourself against your kids."


"Fire arms 101B; How to defend yourself against your parents."


OK, I think I'm starting to get caught up to things here.

I am now looking forward with great anticipation to the advancement of society and evolution to be obtained by numerous discussions of carrying capacity of the guns and stopping power of the rounds in the magazine by these bright young people.






slvemike4u -> RE: Guns in Elementary Schools (2/1/2012 3:47:37 PM)

Practical use for all that math [:)]



Yachtie -> RE: Guns in Elementary Schools (2/1/2012 4:01:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Practical use for all that math [:)]


"Range and elevation, Mrs. Langston. Range and elevation."



Yachtie -> RE: Guns in Elementary Schools (2/1/2012 4:06:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

So then, whence all the fuss about legalization?



There was never any fuss at all till people of a certain persuasion started making one; circa GCA 1934.





popeye1250 -> RE: Guns in Elementary Schools (2/1/2012 4:16:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

I just dont see the positives of allowing 'non law enforcement' adults being allowed to carry firearms into public schools outweighing the negatives. Sadly I believe the number of negative occurances of a firearms usage would quickly erase the good reasons.

So the question I have is: Should US Citizens be allowed to be on school grounds with a firearm, assuming they are 'non law enforcement' (i.e., Teachers, parents, janitors, etc)?


Enlarge this. Has concealed carry caused all the blood in the streets that its opponents said would happen? Answer, no! Thus your (emotional?) belief that "the number of negative occurances of a firearms usage would quickly erase the good reasons" is unfounded.









And there is a history of teachers carrying guns, to protect their charges from Indians. Or bears.

Ha, you could exchange "Indians" for "deuchbags," mentally deranged," etc.
Now, I can just see it; "Dueschbag #1; " " Damn! I can't carry this gun legally to shoot up that school but those bastards had better duck when my "permit" comes in next week!" "Then I'll be "legal."



Edwynn -> RE: Guns in Elementary Schools (2/1/2012 4:41:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

There was never any fuss at all till people of a certain persuasion started making one; circa GCA 1934.



Right. So congealed carry (fumbling effort at humor in the misspelling intentional) was all 'cause of that then?  Nobody carried prior to the commies pushing for gun laws?

I hear ya, Yacht man. Commies and capitalist pigs is all the media has given us to fuss about from when our granddaddies were born. Not leaving us with a whole lot, is it?

I have no issues with the average gun owner, in fact. Have always had someone close to me in some way in that regard. It's a wacked world, no question. I hope you appreciate the diversity required if things go seriously haywire, and would seek council of at least a few non-gun owners as I might seek yours, in that event.

I know I might have gotten carried away just a bit here, perhaps had too much fun, but the school thing I find troublesome.

Thanks for hearing me out. Just ask silvermikeface what an inveterate PITA I can be at times, but we still find a way.






slvemike4u -> RE: Guns in Elementary Schools (2/1/2012 6:13:01 PM)

Now what the fuck do I know about how big a pain in the ass you are ?
How did I get dragged into this?....lol
My sole addition to this thread was an occasional post in which I tried to exhibit the scorn I feel for any twit who would suggest it is a good idea to have more guns around more children for more hours in a day.
On the face of it,it would seem to take an idiot of an unbelievable stripe to think this is a good idea.
Other than that I have nothing to say [:)]



Yachtie -> RE: Guns in Elementary Schools (2/1/2012 6:30:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

There was never any fuss at all till people of a certain persuasion started making one; circa GCA 1934.



Nobody carried prior to the commies pushing for gun laws?



Of course they did. It was an accepted part of society. That in no way says everyone did. Hell, I have an ~1880s Sharps Pepperbox, .22 cal. It was most often carried by women, and a few men. Quite elegant looking thing. Beautiful brass. Still works just fine.

If you wonder about the gun culture, I'd most highly recommend Unintended Consequences, by John Ross.

edit: upon checking, mine would be mfg. ~1860s.





tweakabelle -> RE: Guns in Elementary Schools (2/1/2012 8:03:57 PM)

I wish to register my absolute horror at the suggestion that guns have a place in elementary school, or anywhere near children. I wouldn't let anyone who holds this bizarre view anywhere near any child of mine.

It is inevitable that sooner or later, someone is going to forget to lock the gun cabinet, someone is going to forget to take the round out of the chamber, children will find a way of accessing things they shouldn't. It's bizarre that people argue for the presence of lethal weapons around children not yet old enough to be trusted with a box of matches. The outcome will be dead children. The responsibility will belong to those who placed the guns within reach of the children.

It's obscene that this discussion seems to focus on ways of minimising the damage done by gun-wielding psychopaths rather than ways of ensuring that such loonies never get near children.



Kirata -> RE: Guns in Elementary Schools (2/1/2012 10:15:24 PM)


Rationalizing your gun-phobia and portraying the affliction as a badge of righteousness seems unlikely to further reasoned debate. Children are surrounded by lethal and potentially lethal risks virtually all the time, from sharp pencils to electrical outlets to automobiles. More children drown in swimming pools than die by gunshot, and they are much more frequently (whether they know it or not) around guns than swimming pools in any state that allows concealed carry.

K.








Yachtie -> RE: Guns in Elementary Schools (2/2/2012 5:42:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


Rationalizing your gun-phobia and portraying the affliction as a badge of righteousness seems unlikely to further reasoned debate. Children are surrounded by lethal and potentially lethal risks virtually all the time, from sharp pencils to electrical outlets to automobiles. More children drown in swimming pools than die by gunshot, and they are much more frequently (whether they know it or not) around guns than swimming pools in any state that allows concealed carry.

K.



Bingo!



truckinslave -> RE: Guns in Elementary Schools (2/2/2012 9:05:28 AM)

At least two employees at my daughters school are eligible for carry permits.
I know that because I trained them.
I hope they carry.

BTW- it is my anecdotal experience that a LOT of nurses carry. They see a lot of victims; those experiences seem to keep them from burying their heads in the sand.



Hillwilliam -> RE: Guns in Elementary Schools (2/2/2012 1:07:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

I wish to register my absolute horror at the suggestion that guns have a place in elementary school, or anywhere near children. I wouldn't let anyone who holds this bizarre view anywhere near any child of mine.

It is inevitable that sooner or later, someone is going to forget to lock the gun cabinet, someone is going to forget to take the round out of the chamber, children will find a way of accessing things they shouldn't. It's bizarre that people argue for the presence of lethal weapons around children not yet old enough to be trusted with a box of matches. The outcome will be dead children. The responsibility will belong to those who placed the guns within reach of the children.

It's obscene that this discussion seems to focus on ways of minimising the damage done by gun-wielding psychopaths rather than ways of ensuring that such loonies never get near children.

You might notice that doctors kill over twice as many children as firearms, bodies of water three times as many and cars about 40 times as many.

Keep em away from hospitals and cars and water.

[image]local://upfiles/664494/1D469970AF274EC595E9947B8AA3ED92.gif[/image]



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