RE: Mitt Might Have a Dead People Baptism Problem

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RE: Mitt Might Have a Dead People Baptism Problem - 1/25/2012 6:28:37 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

How can a dead person possibly be offended?

They cant, but living people of the same faith as the deceased surely can.

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RE: Mitt Might Have a Dead People Baptism Problem - 1/25/2012 6:34:34 PM

thishereboi

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quote:

To have some Mormon decide to change their religion posthumously after they fought so hard to keep it is just disgusting and disrespectful.

You do realize that they aren't actually changing anything, right?

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RE: Mitt Might Have a Dead People Baptism Problem - 1/25/2012 6:41:07 PM

Aylee

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

How can a dead person possibly be offended?

They cant, but living people of the same faith as the deceased surely can.

So. . . you are talking about being offended on behalf of a dead person? Seems a bit odd.

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RE: Mitt Might Have a Dead People Baptism Problem - 1/25/2012 6:42:16 PM

Owner59

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

YAY! Mormon bashing!

I love the tolerance and acceptance!

So we are to accept any behavior or belief no matter how offensive or demeaning under the guise of religion.....why?

How can a dead person possibly be offended?

Wow.....if you have to ask,you may not understand.......

Read OsideGirl`s post.

It`s the living that this hurts.

I guess with your logic,someone I killed wouldn`t care that I did that.......they`re dead after all.

The surviving family members might have a thing or two to be upset about tho.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 1/25/2012 6:43:16 PM >

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RE: Mitt Might Have a Dead People Baptism Problem - 1/25/2012 7:17:20 PM

Iamsemisweet

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I understAnd that the families of the Jews killed in the holocaust who have been posthumously baptized by the Mormons are pretty offended. What could be more intolerant than Unilaterally determining that someone needed to be "saved"?

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RE: Mitt Might Have a Dead People Baptism Problem - 1/25/2012 7:21:18 PM

outhere69

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That's common to Christianity in general...

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RE: Mitt Might Have a Dead People Baptism Problem - 1/25/2012 8:02:03 PM

OsideGirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

To have some Mormon decide to change their religion posthumously after they fought so hard to keep it is just disgusting and disrespectful.

You do realize that they aren't actually changing anything, right?

In reality no, but in theory yes. They're baptizing Jews that that were killed during the Holocaust into the Mormon faith. People that died because they wouldn't renounce their religion. It's disrespectful. They're minimizing what they did and considering their views on how important ancestry in heaven is....it's hypocritical.

< Message edited by OsideGirl -- 1/25/2012 8:03:08 PM >

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RE: Mitt Might Have a Dead People Baptism Problem - 1/25/2012 8:08:22 PM

DarkSteven

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

I`m sure it`s all done with sincerity and the best intentions .

But it is a bit much.

What other whacked out stuff are they into?

Polygamy after death.
People becoming gods after death (if they've lived good lives).
Polytheism (see above).
Sexism in that Jesus gets to decide if a man is resurrected after death, but her husband gets to decide if a wife is resurrected after death.
Jesus himself was supposed to have had three wives.

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RE: Mitt Might Have a Dead People Baptism Problem - 1/25/2012 8:21:20 PM

SomeCdnGuy

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quote:

How can a dead person possibly be offended?

Exactamundo!

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RE: Mitt Might Have a Dead People Baptism Problem - 1/25/2012 9:01:08 PM

velvetpetal

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I once, for a short period of time, concidered becoming Mormon. When two of their young men out on missions came to my home ( elders) to deliver a Book of Mormon I'd ordered of a TV commercial. I'd simply wanted to study a book that I assumed would come in the mail. I was wrong, they had it hand delivered by the two elders.

When our talks eventually got around to discussing their Baptism for the dead practice, It was explained that they are a Church that strongly encourages creating family trees and to look for any possible family members that had already died and do a Baptism ritual for each family member that hadnt likely been done while still alive. They also explained to me, that during the baptism ceremony, that in whereever it is that the deceased go after dying, those family members would be approached and told that someone in their family was performing a baptism in their honor. Theyd be permitted to "watch" and then afterwords, they had the right to accept or reject the baptism.

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RE: Mitt Might Have a Dead People Baptism Problem - 1/25/2012 9:07:50 PM

Iamsemisweet

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This doesn't sound correct, since baptisms for the dead take place in the temple. Only members in good standing are allowed in the temple.

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetpeta
They also explained to me, that during the baptism ceremony, that in whereever it is that the deceased go after dying, those family members would be approached and told that someone in their family was performing a baptism in their honor. Theyd be permitted to "watch" and then afterwords, they had the right to accept or reject the baptism.

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RE: Mitt Might Have a Dead People Baptism Problem - 1/25/2012 9:10:57 PM

Owner59

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SomeCdnGuy

quote:

How can a dead person possibly be offended?
Exactamundo!

Well if one it a true believer in life after death and we are to respect that,it would matter.Wouldn`t it?

But if one doesn`t take religion seriously,then I guess it matters little.

I`ll put it this way,when I see someone pulling wings/legs off of bugs for fun,it`s not the bugs that I`m worried about.

Love your tag-line....btw.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 1/25/2012 9:12:44 PM >

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RE: Mitt Might Have a Dead People Baptism Problem - 1/25/2012 9:14:41 PM

Iamsemisweet

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Not quite so blatantly.. It is especially ironic considering the history of the Mormon church
In terms of other off the wall Mormon beliefs, don't forget white people living in north America. Until they were killed off by the Indians. Oh, and Jesus visiting north America too. Oh, and Joseph smith finding the golden plates that became the book of Mormon, as well as magical spectacles to translate them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: outhere69

That's common to Christianity in general...

< Message edited by Iamsemisweet -- 1/25/2012 9:15:31 PM >

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RE: Mitt Might Have a Dead People Baptism Problem - 1/25/2012 9:30:54 PM

velvetpetal

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

This doesn't sound correct, since baptisms for the dead take place in the temple. Only members in good standing are allowed in the temple.

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetpeta
They also explained to me, that during the baptism ceremony, that in whereever it is that the deceased go after dying, those family members would be approached and told that someone in their family was performing a baptism in their honor. Theyd be permitted to "watch" and then afterwords, they had the right to accept or reject the baptism.

Iamsemisweet, It is what it is... what I typed is word for word what the elders told me. They have a strong obsession with family trees and the idea to eventually pretty much "Baptise" every single dead person. To give them a chance to still go into heaven, since they strongly believe the Christian bible verse about the importance of being baptised and that only those that have been baptised will get into heaven.

At the time.. It left a strange impression on me thats hard to explain.
Regardless..I never asked where the baptism for the dead ceremonies were held, and I cannot clearly remember what the book of Mormon said about where. Seems to me..that if only people that are in good standing.. and that can afford to travel to the temple are permitted to baptise for their dead, Its for sure gonna be a very long process of getting "Everyone" thats died.

Both Elders strongly advised me to begin a family tree imediately.

When they talked to me about the temple.. they talked about how its used by married couples in good standing, can go there to have their marriages sealed for eternity. They don't believe people are still married to each other after one partner passes away. I was left with the impression that thats mostly what the temple is used for.
Seems silly to me that only their "best" church members can perform baptism for their dead, in a place that might be financially hard for many to visit. Both Elders seemed very intent on the idea of giving the dead a second chance.
But that was my impression... lol

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RE: Mitt Might Have a Dead People Baptism Problem - 1/25/2012 9:47:30 PM

velvetpetal

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But mostly the main reason why I wrote what I did is to explain that they believe that even after a "Baptism for the dead" ceremony takes place... that the person "being baptised" still has free will.. to accept or reject. Thus they arent really hurting anything if they try to do a baptism for say... Anne Frank.

~Anne Frank is approached wherever her soul happens to be at the moment.. Shes talked to by dead missionaries and they take a moment to show her the person thats doing the baptism in her honor. She watches and then shes given a chance to accept the baptism, or decline the favor.~
If Anne Frank still holds onto her religious teachings she can always say no.

Not that I think its okay for Mormons to do this ceremony for Jewish or Muslims.. or.. any other religions. I think they should keep it to their own family members.

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RE: Mitt Might Have a Dead People Baptism Problem - 1/25/2012 9:52:08 PM

TheHeretic

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Whatever happened to a candidates religion not mattering?

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RE: Mitt Might Have a Dead People Baptism Problem - 1/25/2012 10:17:53 PM

Owner59

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What`s so objectionable about that guy?

Specifically.

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RE: Mitt Might Have a Dead People Baptism Problem - 1/25/2012 10:32:00 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

What`s so objectionable about that guy?

Specifically.

I'll just refer you to Google for an answer to your question, Owner59. Once you are up to speed, you can then explain how a practice within Romney's faith reflects more about him, than what was being said from the particular pulpit, in front of the particular pew, where President Obama chose to sit over the course of 20 odd years, should have reflected onto him.

To my mind, the whole practice smacks of a way to separate the gullible believers from their coin, but temples and custom robes, and towers for the call to prayer to be shouted from, don't come cheap in any religion.

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RE: Mitt Might Have a Dead People Baptism Problem - 1/25/2012 10:40:50 PM

Owner59

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No ........you tell us...........please,in your own words.

This is a forum of ideas.......if you can manage that.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 1/25/2012 10:41:30 PM >

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RE: Mitt Might Have a Dead People Baptism Problem - 1/25/2012 10:43:11 PM

Kirata