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RE: dishwasher installation - 12/27/2011 4:26:26 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		If you have a septic tank then you don't want a disposal. It will just cause problems.

If civic sewage system, then it doesn't matter. Personally I prefer not to have one. It always winds up smelling, spoons get mangled, etc.

I wouldn't need a permit for something like this, but in NYC you need it all done by a tradesman. Owners aren't legally even allowed to rewire a lamp. Not that they don't, but the codes are Byzantine.


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RE: dishwasher installation - 12/27/2011 4:39:27 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		Apparently codes are hard to keep up with because they change all the time. The handyman said he would drill a hole and run a new electrical line from our breaker box outside. He thinks the entire job (plumbing, electrical, and cabinet cutting) will take 1-2 days.

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: dishwasher installation - 12/27/2011 4:39:58 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		No, a garbage disposal is not necessary or even necessarily common to have a dishwasher.  There are quite a few areas where garbage disposals are not "the norm."

In any house that doesn't have a pre-existing dishwasher the amount of work is not going to be all that different.  Cabinets need to be removed/cut/retrofitted for the dishwasher.  Wiring needs to be done, splicing into existing wiring.  Plumbing needs to be installed/routed for the new appliance.

While dishwashers are quite commonplace in this day and age, they still require proper care and maintenance.  There are people who still insist on rinsing dishes instead of just scraping them before loading.  This isn't necessary and a total waste of time; if you are going to do that, add some soap and just finish the job.  Obviously, the plates need to be free of chunks, but rinsing is not required.  Running the hot water at the faucet until the water runs hot will save you electricity in older houses where it takes longer to get hot water from the tap, because the machine doesn't need to expend so much energy to heat the water.  Using the "dry" function also wastes power.

Regardless of all that, with all the comments you have made about not being able to afford necessary medical care with your husband in school, working only part time and you not working or earning much when you do, being a "lazy sub" seems to be the problem that needs fixing.  Of course, given the household's hectic schedules, everyone cleaning up the kitchen in turn isn't far fetched either.

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: dishwasher installation - 12/27/2011 4:42:08 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

If you have a septic tank then you don't want a disposal. It will just cause problems.

If civic sewage system, then it doesn't matter. Personally I prefer not to have one. It always winds up smelling, spoons get mangled, etc.

I wouldn't need a permit for something like this, but in NYC you need it all done by a tradesman. Owners aren't legally even allowed to rewire a lamp. Not that they don't, but the codes are Byzantine.



If she has a septic tank, with an older house, she may want to rethink the whole dishwasher issue as well.  Older septic systems do NOT do well with dishwashers or washing machines even.

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: dishwasher installation - 12/27/2011 4:44:34 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		If you live in a city apartment, you don't need to run the water until it gets hot. Here, where there may well have been no use of hot water since early morning, it is necessary for the dishes to be clean and sanitary. Otherwise the water still isn't 120F (the temp my hot water heater is set at) by the time it finishes filling,

This, btw, is what I was told to do by my appliance repairman, a friend of 20 years.


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RE: dishwasher installation - 12/27/2011 4:57:26 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		I was unable to work for a few months because I had to go through several surgeries. I'm not lazy when it comes to having a job. In fact, for several years I had problems with people wanting to freeload off me. With both work and school, I don't want to use my free time cleaning and picking up after everyone. I'm lazy when it comes to housekeeping, not employment.


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Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: dishwasher installation - 12/27/2011 5:13:12 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Apparently codes are hard to keep up with because they change all the time. The handyman said he would drill a hole and run a new electrical line from our breaker box outside. He thinks the entire job (plumbing, electrical, and cabinet cutting) will take 1-2 days.


I hate to ask this, but since he's planning to tap into your breaker box, has he checked to make sure there's extra capacity there, like a breaker that's not being used now?


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RE: dishwasher installation - 12/27/2011 5:13:54 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ninebelowzero

You are serious? In the land of the free you need a permit to do some sparky work?
Where I live, if one is installing new wiring/plumbing, it needs to be permitted. Many don't. For replacement of wiring/fixtures/plumbing, no permit is needed. Also, a homeowner can do the work himself. It just needs to be inspected if permitted.


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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: dishwasher installation - 12/27/2011 5:21:22 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		When I had the dishwasher installed I didn't have a disposal. It worked perfectly fine.

As for the lazy sub thought....I guess either your Dom doesn't care or he's given up. If he's given up I'd really be concerned for the relationship. I know personally here when I get lazy about something I get in trouble unless it's due to my health.


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RE: dishwasher installation - 12/27/2011 6:48:19 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

When I had the dishwasher installed I didn't have a disposal. It worked perfectly fine.

As for the lazy sub thought....I guess either your Dom doesn't care or he's given up. If he's given up I'd really be concerned for the relationship. I know personally here when I get lazy about something I get in trouble unless it's due to my health.

Yes it will work fine. When there IS a disposal, the dishwasher effluent is usually routed through it. There's a knockout for the dishwasher hose connector (usually) at the top.
Here's one designed for use w/ a septic system: http://www.insinkerator.com/product/product.php?id=205&template=hhd



_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: dishwasher installation - 12/27/2011 10:27:19 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

If you live in a city apartment, you don't need to run the water until it gets hot. Here, where there may well have been no use of hot water since early morning, it is necessary for the dishes to be clean and sanitary. Otherwise the water still isn't 120F (the temp my hot water heater is set at) by the time it finishes filling,

This, btw, is what I was told to do by my appliance repairman, a friend of 20 years.



Water enters your dishwasher and then it raises the temperature of that water well above what ever your water heater is set at.  It will heat that water until it reaches the right temperature (this uses significant energy).  If you run the water at the sink and it and it take a while for the cold water that has been sitting in the pipe to run out and get hot more than a few seconds, (ours take almost a minute), when you run it until it gets hot, the machine doesn't have to heat up the cold water that was sitting in the hot water pipe,  It still won't be at the correct temperature when the machine is full, but the machine won't have to spend as much time heating it up. 

This from from two plumbers.  One my uncle, who installed the dishwasher in my old house and another pluber who I asked the question.

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: dishwasher installation - 12/27/2011 10:30:51 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

I was unable to work for a few months because I had to go through several surgeries. I'm not lazy when it comes to having a job. In fact, for several years I had problems with people wanting to freeload off me. With both work and school, I don't want to use my free time cleaning and picking up after everyone. I'm lazy when it comes to housekeeping, not employment.



You are sub to one man in that house, are you not?  Seems to me that the other can do his own dishes and if your combined schedules make things difficult, everyone, dominant, submissive and house mate all need to chip in and take their turn doing the dishes.  I don't have a dishwasher.  Ok, I sort of do.  The deal in my house is that if I cook, my housemate does the dishes.  If he cooks I do them.

When people in a house have hectic schedules everyone needs to do their part in house cleaning chores.

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: dishwasher installation - 12/28/2011 8:03:44 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I do not like doing dishes but oddly enough, I don't want a dishwasher either. Certainly not enough to buy one. The installation is something we could/would do ourselves. Not difficult for the average home improvement vet.

That being said.........we did, for awhile, have a really spiffy counter top model that was great for keeping up on the week day cups, bowls, etc. When it crapped out I didn't replace it. Was a thoughtful gift but not something I would buy.


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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: dishwasher installation - 12/28/2011 8:09:16 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		$400 ?  Jesus, you better have the KamaSutra tattooed under your tongue and I better be able to read it clearly thru my penis.  Lessee..............quarter a blowjob that's, well, alotta blowjobs.

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RE: dishwasher installation - 12/28/2011 9:37:53 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14449
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ninebelowzero

You are serious? In the land of the free you need a permit to do some sparky work?
Where I live, if one is installing new wiring/plumbing, it needs to be permitted. Many don't. For replacement of wiring/fixtures/plumbing, no permit is needed. Also, a homeowner can do the work himself. It just needs to be inspected if permitted.

It's funny because every town here is different.

We wouldn't need a permit for the electrical unless a circuit was being added. We can add outlets and move junction boxes to our little hearts desires.

We would need a permit for the plumbing.

And they charge a $40 administrative fee to get a permit, keeping in mind that you also pay the permit fee.



Having the dishwasher routed through the garbage disposal is the norm in Southern California. And I love having a garbage disposal. (They don't stink if you take care of them)


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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: dishwasher installation - 12/28/2011 9:43:47 AM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline 		I'd like to suggest to hire a local fix it man to do the work it will be a helluva lot cheaper than the big box store price. If your somewhat handy DIY in a couple hours. It's not like you have to remove the countertop.

BadOne

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: dishwasher installation - 12/28/2011 9:48:53 AM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline 		if memory serves all DW have garbage disposals incorporated in the machine.

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

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We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: dishwasher installation - 12/28/2011 11:27:10 AM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I do not like doing dishes but oddly enough, I don't want a dishwasher either. Certainly not enough to buy one. The installation is something we could/would do ourselves. Not difficult for the average home improvement vet.

That being said.........we did, for awhile, have a really spiffy counter top model that was great for keeping up on the week day cups, bowls, etc. When it crapped out I didn't replace it. Was a thoughtful gift but not something I would buy.



Oh, I have looked at those in catalogs!  Sadly, my kitchen could no more accomodate one of those anymore than a full size (actually I think the countertop would be worse, space wise).

Have talked about putting a chest freezer in the shed though....THAT I would like to find a way to have.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: dishwasher installation - 12/28/2011 12:18:27 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I put it on a rolling cart so that I wouldn't have to take up counter space. When I wasn't using it I just rolled it into the pantry. But not everyone has a pantry the size of a large walk in closet....

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: dishwasher installation - 12/28/2011 6:26:26 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady


Water enters your dishwasher and then it raises the temperature of that water well above what ever your water heater is set at.  It will heat that water until it reaches the right temperature (this uses significant energy).  If you run the water at the sink and it and it take a while for the cold water that has been sitting in the pipe to run out and get hot more than a few seconds, (ours take almost a minute), when you run it until it gets hot, the machine doesn't have to heat up the cold water that was sitting in the hot water pipe,  It still won't be at the correct temperature when the machine is full, but the machine won't have to spend as much time heating it up. 

This from from two plumbers.  One my uncle, who installed the dishwasher in my old house and another pluber who I asked the question.


Depends on the brand. Mine raises it only 20 degrees, which isn't enough. Yours may raise it more.


_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 40
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