RE: Krugman's Revisionism Now the EU on fire (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion



Message


provfivetine -> RE: Krugman's Revisionism Now the EU on fire (11/15/2011 8:13:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker

He has a Nobel prize for economics. And with worthies like him receiving such awards no wonder the world economies are tanking.



Exactly. The Nobel Prize is awarded by the Swedish Central Bank and is presented to what ever nitwit can produce the best annual study showing how global centralization is the solution to all the world's problems. How else do you think Barry got his Nobel Peace Prize as he expanded the warfare state while ordering a record amount of drone strikes?




samboct -> RE: Krugman's Revisionism Now the EU on fire (11/15/2011 8:32:51 PM)

To Provfivetime

OK- Krugman proposes a gedunken experiment- and you think it's for real? Try again....

I tend to like Krugman's economics- partisan or not. There was a recent WSJ editorial which ruefully admitted that Krugman has done a far better job about forecasting the results of the recent economic meltdown than their editorial page.

Sam




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Krugman's Revisionism Now the EU on fire (11/15/2011 8:46:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct



I tend to like Krugman's economics- partisan or not.

Sam


That you would like a socialist is no surprise.




samboct -> RE: Krugman's Revisionism Now the EU on fire (11/15/2011 8:47:03 PM)

Actually- in response to the original post- I found this piece from the WSJ back in 1998. Seems to me that Krugman's assertion that the euro debate cut across ideological lines- with both liberals and monetarists like Milton Friedman (who's something of a moron in my book based on a video interview he did years ago- but that's a separate thread.) is accurate- but the WSJ was supporting the euro.

http://myweb.liu.edu/~uroy/eco41/articles/mundell/mundell6a.htm

This is just a confusing issue- and I'll certainly cut Krugman some slack in trying to take some shortcuts to describe the situation.

Sam




provfivetine -> RE: Krugman's Revisionism Now the EU on fire (11/15/2011 8:53:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

To Provfivetime

OK- Krugman proposes a gedunken experiment- and you think it's for real? Try again....

I tend to like Krugman's economics- partisan or not. There was a recent WSJ editorial which ruefully admitted that Krugman has done a far better job about forecasting the results of the recent economic meltdown than their editorial page.

Sam


Saying Krugman has "done a better job" at economic forecasting than the WSJ is like saying Michael Jackson took better care of kids than Jerry Sandusky.

The WSJ has always endorsed the same conceptual framework and methodology that Krugman advocates; the only difference is "how much should we spend" - a classic salt-water/fresh-water argument over nothing but the most trivial of issues.




FirstQuaker -> RE: Krugman's Revisionism Now the EU on fire (11/15/2011 9:06:45 PM)

He has taken more then a few such shortcuts over the years.

The Asian financial press (and nobody can claim a as whole they are either "right wing" or tyros) rip Krugman to shreds or treat him as some sort of a financial comedian often enough.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Krugman's Revisionism Now the EU on fire (11/15/2011 9:08:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker

He has taken more then a few such shortcuts over the years.

The Asian financial press (and nobody can claim a as whole they are either "right wing" or tyros) rip Krugman to shreds or treat him as some sort of a financial comedian often enough.



Unfortunately his kind of financial comedy gets enough respect to lend credence to the buffoon in the White House and his policies.




FirstQuaker -> RE: Krugman's Revisionism Now the EU on fire (11/15/2011 9:11:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker

He has taken more then a few such shortcuts over the years.

The Asian financial press (and nobody can claim a as whole they are either "right wing" or tyros) rip Krugman to shreds or treat him as some sort of a financial comedian often enough.



Unfortunately his kind of financial comedy gets enough respect to lend credence to the buffoon in the White House and his policies.


If it were only just Obama, but he or his adherents and mentors have been at it on both side of the Atlantic for 20 years.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Krugman's Revisionism Now the EU on fire (11/15/2011 9:27:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker

He has taken more then a few such shortcuts over the years.

The Asian financial press (and nobody can claim a as whole they are either "right wing" or tyros) rip Krugman to shreds or treat him as some sort of a financial comedian often enough.



Unfortunately his kind of financial comedy gets enough respect to lend credence to the buffoon in the White House and his policies.


If it were only just Obama, but he or his adherents and mentors have been at it on both side of the Atlantic for 20 years.



The failed experiment called the Great Society was a helluva lot longer than 20 years ago.




FirstQuaker -> RE: Krugman's Revisionism Now the EU on fire (11/15/2011 9:39:30 PM)

The "Great Society" had nothing to do with Krugman or his theories. The Carter administration was the earliest affected by such thinking, Krugman himself worked for Reagan at one time and the lot have their hand in everything since then.

But the mistake of this genre of "economics" was mixing politics and economics, and it is as bad as mixing science and religion.

So as noted in the OP, Krugman must bend some facts so the economics correctly fit his politics.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Krugman's Revisionism Now the EU on fire (11/15/2011 9:44:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker

The "Great Society" had nothing to do with Krugman or his theories.


Nonsense. It was the beginning of the modern socialist movement in the US, exactly the theories that Krugman ascribes to.




FirstQuaker -> RE: Krugman's Revisionism Now the EU on fire (11/15/2011 9:55:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker

The "Great Society" had nothing to do with Krugman or his theories.


Nonsense. It was the beginning of the modern socialist movement in the US, exactly the theories that Krugman ascribes to.


If you wan tto play by those rules, Teddy Roosevelt is likely the star of the show, there was a day when the GOP were the "progressives" and the Democrats were the reactionaries  and traditonalists.

However the current financial scheme was worked up after Nixon was obligated to pull the plug on the Bretton Woods Gold standard due to EUropean thievery.

You had to let these neo-liberal gurus get their hands on the controls of fiat money to get where we are today.

Even the lumpen at the OWS has that figured out - Time for a new Bill of Rights

(Of course they haven't figured out just where ending this "free ride" will leave them yet.)




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Krugman's Revisionism Now the EU on fire (11/15/2011 9:58:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker

The "Great Society" had nothing to do with Krugman or his theories.


Nonsense. It was the beginning of the modern socialist movement in the US, exactly the theories that Krugman ascribes to.


If you wan tto play by those rules, Teddy Roosevelt is likely the star of the show,



Apparently we have different definitions of "modern".




FirstQuaker -> RE: Krugman's Revisionism Now the EU on fire (11/15/2011 10:06:45 PM)

Bretton Woods system
quote:

The chief features of the Bretton Woods system were an obligation for each country to adopt a monetary policy that maintained the exchange rate by tying its currency to the U.S. dollar and the ability of the IMF to bridge temporary imbalances of payments. On August 15, 1971, the United States unilaterally terminated convertibility of the dollar to gold. As a result, "[t]he Bretton Woods system officially ended and the dollar became fully 'fiat currency,' backed by nothing but the promise of the federal government."[1] This action, referred to as the Nixon shock, created the situation in which the United States dollar became the sole backing of currencies and a reserve currency for the member states. At the same time, many fixed currencies (such as GBP, for example), also became free floating.


Here is where the trouble began.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Krugman's Revisionism Now the EU on fire (11/15/2011 10:12:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker

Bretton Woods system
quote:

The chief features of the Bretton Woods system were an obligation for each country to adopt a monetary policy that maintained the exchange rate by tying its currency to the U.S. dollar and the ability of the IMF to bridge temporary imbalances of payments. On August 15, 1971, the United States unilaterally terminated convertibility of the dollar to gold. As a result, "[t]he Bretton Woods system officially ended and the dollar became fully 'fiat currency,' backed by nothing but the promise of the federal government."[1] This action, referred to as the Nixon shock, created the situation in which the United States dollar became the sole backing of currencies and a reserve currency for the member states. At the same time, many fixed currencies (such as GBP, for example), also became free floating.


Here is where the trouble began.



Yawwwnnnnn. All currency is fiat currency, including gold. Absolutely nothing began then.




FirstQuaker -> RE: Krugman's Revisionism Now the EU on fire (11/15/2011 10:32:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker

Bretton Woods system
quote:

The chief features of the Bretton Woods system were an obligation for each country to adopt a monetary policy that maintained the exchange rate by tying its currency to the U.S. dollar and the ability of the IMF to bridge temporary imbalances of payments. On August 15, 1971, the United States unilaterally terminated convertibility of the dollar to gold. As a result, "[t]he Bretton Woods system officially ended and the dollar became fully 'fiat currency,' backed by nothing but the promise of the federal government."[1] This action, referred to as the Nixon shock, created the situation in which the United States dollar became the sole backing of currencies and a reserve currency for the member states. At the same time, many fixed currencies (such as GBP, for example), also became free floating.


Here is where the trouble began.



Yawwwnnnnn. All currency is fiat currency, including gold. Absolutely nothing began then.


Er, no. The trouble was where there was no effective control of the monetary system either nationally or internationally at that point.  Gold merely functioned as the regulator prior to then, and the value of a currency or how much was in circulation was economic or what its value was locally or in trade was economic. They coudl have made oil, wheat or toiliet paper (or a bushel basket of any sort of tangible things, even as the dollar was prior to a fixed value vis a vis another countries currency for international trade) or related monetary value to a nations GDP, and still had a control mechanism.

However these rules were too complicated for DeGaulle and other European nations to play by, so Nixon had to pull the plug or face a gold run, which not only would wreck the dollar, but since the dollar was a reserve currency  wreck the whole ball of wax..

After this point, the money supply and worth became political both nationally and internationally. Instead of letting the "market" decide the value and amount of it, the politicians became the ones setting these parameters.

And this is where people like Krugman stepped in, as he could "justify" whatever the politicians thought they wanted to do. If they wanted say, subprime lending, to put anyone wanting one in a nice house , why Krugman could show the rubes just how good an economic thing that was.




SpanishMatMaster -> RE: Krugman's Revisionism Now the EU on fire (11/15/2011 11:38:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine

Krugman is such a hack and is just another scum-bag on Team Princeton. This is a man who stated that the earthquake in Japan would be beneficial for the Japanese economy.


http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/krugman-quake-hoax-fools-pundits-150341935.html

"Apparently some people can't find enough things to attack in what I actually say, so they're busy creating fake quotes"

Paul Krugman




DomYngBlk -> RE: Krugman's Revisionism Now the EU on fire (11/16/2011 5:26:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker

Paul Krugmam, the "liberal" (and I  use that term in the USAsian sense) economic guru, is now attempting to rewrite history to duck the failings of his and "social democrats" beloved EU..

Krugman, who is described in wiki as -

quote:

In a 2003 article, The Economist noted that Krugman's critics argue that "his relentless partisanship is getting in the way of his argument". The Economist also wrote that the vast majority of Krugman's columns feature attacks on
Republicans and almost none criticize Democrats, making him "a sort of ivory-tower folk-hero of the American left—a thinking person's Michael Moore"[13] Libertarian conservative and federal appeals court judge Richard Posner called Krugman "an unabashed Democratic partisan who often goes overboard in his hatred of the Republicans."[156] He also notes that Lyinginponds.com, which tracks partisanship among public intellectuals, has in most years from 2002–2008, ranked Krugman number 1 or number 2 among Democratic columnists for partisanship.[156] Liberal journalist and author Michael Tomasky in The New York Review of Books stated "Many liberals would name Paul Krugman of The New York Times as perhaps the most consistent and courageous—and unapologetic—liberal partisan in American journalism."[157] New York Magazine called Krugman "the leading exponent of a kind of liberal purism", while liberal historian Michael Kazin has opined that Krugman’s account of the right succumbed to the Marxist flaw of false consciousness.[158]


is forced to make statements and be in positions like -

quote:

In his piece Mr Krugman also makes the astonishing claim that the doomed European Project was originally “cheered” by American conservatives but “questioned” by US liberals:
The attempt to create a common European currency was one of those ideas that cut across the usual ideological lines. It was cheered on by American right-wingers, who saw it as the next best thing to a revived gold standard, and by Britain’s left, which saw it as a big step toward a social-democratic Europe. But it was opposed by British conservatives, who also saw it as a step toward a social-democratic Europe. And it was questioned by American liberals, who worried — rightly, I’d say (but then I would, wouldn’t I?) — about what would happen if countries couldn’t use monetary and fiscal policy to fight recessions.

I don’t recall “American right-wingers” cheering on the rise of the single currency, and the growth of a European superstate. Quite the opposite, in fact. British-style Euroscepticism has always been fashionable among US conservatives who have long admired Lady Thatcher’s views on Europe, but mocked and derided by the State Department and by the Left. American liberals in contrast have long been among the biggest supporters of the European Project. Witness the fawning Eurofederalism of the Obama administration as well as bastions of the ruling liberal elites such as The New York Times. Krugman is rewriting history now that the European model, beloved by East Coast liberals, is going down in flames.


So USAsian "conservatives" support the EU while the USasian "liberals" fought it tooth and nail now? Funny I see Obama over there every other week trying to help the fellahs prop the place up.

Must suck to realize that

quote:

The reality that Krugman refuses to accept is that Europe offers a glimpse of America’s future if it continues down the path of European-style big government. The root of Europe’s financial crisis lies in decades of over-spending and over-borrowing, largely to pay for overgrown and bloated welfare systems, vast public sectors, and incredibly generous pension plans. Europe has a huge entitlements disaster heading its way, with graying electorates unable to sustain the status quo. Added to this has been the disastrous euro experiment, which has created a one-size fits all approach for 17 EU countries, with varying levels of economic advancement. It has been a huge leap into the dark, without a shred of democratic accountability.


Paul Krugman is rewriting history now that the eurozone, beloved by US liberals, is going down in flames


Looking like a replay of how crestfallen the same crew was when the Soviet Union collapsed.



The US business community has always loved the idea of the Euro as one zone. Since the US business community can rightly be labeled as Conservative then Conservatives backed the Eurozone. Nothing Krugman has said is incorrect.





FirstQuaker -> RE: Krugman's Revisionism Now the EU on fire (11/16/2011 7:10:57 AM)

I am sure you will hear some radicially differing views on that.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Krugman's Revisionism Now the EU on fire (11/16/2011 9:05:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster

quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine

Krugman is such a hack and is just another scum-bag on Team Princeton. This is a man who stated that the earthquake in Japan would be beneficial for the Japanese economy.


http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/krugman-quake-hoax-fools-pundits-150341935.html

"Apparently some people can't find enough things to attack in what I actually say, so they're busy creating fake quotes"

Paul Krugman



This is his real asinine take:

"And yes, this does mean that the nuclear catastrophe could end up being expansionary, if not for Japan then at least for the world as a whole. If this sounds crazy, well, liquidity-trap economics is like that — remember, World War II ended the Great Depression."

No, Paul. WWII did not end the Great Depression, and you may want to revisit the broken window fallacy.

"Dr. Krugman so desperately seeks more spending that he wishes Congress would pretend aliens are invading. Washington could then control the economy – for our good, not theirs, he’d have us assume. Krugman assures us liberals have a conscience.

Whether they have any common sense is less certain."




Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.03125