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Gun-walking....republican version of fast & furious... - 10/14/2011 5:51:41 PM   
Owner59


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Hmmmmmmm........hmmmmmm......hmmmmmm......

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/14/fast-and-furious-bush-administration_n_1011305.html

A second Bush administration gun-trafficking investigation has surfaced using the same controversial tactic for which congressional Republicans have been criticizing the Obama administration.

The tactic, called "gun walking," is already under investigation by the Justice Department's inspector general and by congressional Republicans, who have criticized the administration of Democratic President Barack Obama for letting it happen in an operation called "Fast and Furious".

Emails obtained by The Associated Press show how in a 2007 investigation in Phoenix, agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives – depending on Mexican authorities to follow up – let guns "walk" across the border in an effort to identify higher-ups in gun networks. Justice Department policy has long required that illicit arms shipments be intercepted whenever possible.

The 2007 probe operated out of the same ATF office that more recently ran the flawed Operation Fast and Furious. Both probes resulted in weapons disappearing across the border into Mexico, according to the emails. The 2007 probe was relatively small – involving over 200 weapons, just a dozen of which ended up in Mexico as a result of gun-walking. Fast and Furious involved over 2,000 weapons, some 1,400 of which have not been recovered and an unknown number of which wound up in Mexico.

Earlier this month, it was disclosed that the gun-walking tactic didn't begin under Obama, but was also used in 2006 under his predecessor, George W. Bush. The probe, Operation Wide Receiver, was carried out by ATF's Tucson, Ariz., office and resulted in hundreds of guns being transferred to suspected arms traffickers.

The older gun-walking cases now coming to light from the Bush administration illustrate how ATF – particularly its Phoenix field division, encompassing Tucson, Ariz., as well as Phoenix – has struggled for years to counter criticism that its normal seize-and-arrest tactics never caught any trafficking kingpins and were little more than a minor irritant that didn't keep U.S. guns out of the hands of Mexican gangs.


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RE: Gun-walking....republican version of fast & furious... - 10/14/2011 6:31:26 PM   
SlutJessi


Posts: 10
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Status: offline 		So does that make it ok? Change we can believe in.

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RE: Gun-walking....republican version of fast & furious... - 10/14/2011 8:45:22 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Make what ok?

Not sure if "ok`s" the issue.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Gun-walking....republican version of fast & furious... - 10/14/2011 9:37:08 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
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Status: offline 		Let me guess ...

It's Bush's fault!   

Firm


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RE: Gun-walking....republican version of fast & furious... - 10/14/2011 9:41:13 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		You must understand, this is a war of words and propaganda, not of facts. Operation 'Wide-Receiver' started by Bush in 2006 (?) and was exactly the same as this latest corruption.

Kinkroids, both parties are whores, both parties gleefully spend and dicker while playing golf. Both parties are owned by the corporations, bankers and wall street. Wars on drugs and especially those with border intrigue...are very, very good for profits and distraction and fear.

It ALL works too, society is falling for this bullshit election after election.

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RE: Gun-walking....republican version of fast & furious... - 10/14/2011 9:44:19 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		No....his program...didn`t the F&F program also start under shrub?


Anyway.....


Do you think we`ll see subpoenas issued on this?


Something tells me that the cons expoiting the F&F tragedy, are now going to STFU.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Gun-walking....republican version of fast & furious... - 10/14/2011 10:40:26 PM   
StrangerThan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlutJessi

So does that make it ok? Change we can believe in.


Of course it does.

The First Principle of general political math states that:

                          My guy is Wrong / Last Guy was  Wrong = My guy's OK!

The Second Principle of general political math states that:

                           My guy is Wrong / Last Guy was  Wrong =  Last Guy is an Asshole!

The Third Principle of general political math states that:

                            My guy is wrong Wrong = Must Dig Feverishly to find something that will fit the first principle

To augment these, The Newly Anointed First Principle of Democratic Political math states: Failing the first and third general principles:               
                            My guy is Wrong = You are a racist if you notice my guy is wrong.

There, class dismissed.


< Message edited by StrangerThan -- 10/14/2011 10:44:20 PM >

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RE: Gun-walking....republican version of fast & furious... - 10/15/2011 1:32:19 AM   
popeye1250


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Status: offline 		Owner, ??? Are you saying that two wrongs make a right?
Assuming what your saying is true wouldn't you be in favor of arresting both Bush and Obama and making them stand trial?


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RE: Gun-walking....republican version of fast & furious... - 10/15/2011 2:55:04 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
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Status: offline 		So Obama's been doing it and you were ok with that. But now they found out that Bush did it too, so you are up in arms? 

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RE: Gun-walking....republican version of fast & furious... - 10/15/2011 7:50:40 AM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Owner, ??? Are you saying that two wrongs make a right?
Assuming what your saying is true wouldn't you be in favor of arresting both Bush and Obama and making them stand trial?


To the simpeltons.....

No.

I`m saying that the cons have been using/abusing a tragedy, for their own ends.

That part of their abuse , will be ending....

These cowards aren`t going to subpoena other republicans......

Their legistate-by-scandle plan, just kinda crumbled.



_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Gun-walking....republican version of fast & furious... - 10/15/2011 8:31:47 AM   
Sanity


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The key differences are the gross negligence under Obama that your own source describes

quote:

The 2007 probe operated out of the same ATF office that more recently ran the flawed Operation Fast and Furious. Both probes resulted in weapons disappearing across the border into Mexico, according to the emails. The 2007 probe was relatively small – involving over 200 weapons, just a dozen of which ended up in Mexico as a result of gun-walking. Fast and Furious involved over 2,000 weapons, some 1,400 of which have not been recovered and an unknown number of which wound up in Mexico.


The lies

Obama Spoke About 'Fast and Furious' Before Holder Claimed He Knew

And the coverup

In Holder Subpoena, Issa Also Probes WH Press Aide


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RE: Gun-walking....republican version of fast & furious... - 10/15/2011 8:36:58 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
The key differences are the gross negligence under Obama that your own source describes


Wouldn't the gross negligence devolve to W when he found out they couldnt track guns and he didnt shut it down, and alert the congress and the american people of his, and his administrations ineptitude? Or, at least as a friendly gesture to a fellow president, alert Obama to the uselessness of this little peccadillo upon the transference of power? I mean lets face it, by 2007 there wasnt much left in hiding of his ineptitude, and as brazen as he was about it, this could have been minor at that point.

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RE: Gun-walking....republican version of fast & furious... - 10/15/2011 8:49:52 AM   
Sanity


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Twelve weapons mnot, vs fourteen hundred.

And there are Holders lies, and there is the coverup in Obamas White House.




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RE: Gun-walking....republican version of fast & furious... - 10/15/2011 8:54:03 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


The key differences are the gross negligence under Obama that your own source describes

quote:

The 2007 probe operated out of the same ATF office that more recently ran the flawed Operation Fast and Furious. Both probes resulted in weapons disappearing across the border into Mexico, according to the emails. The 2007 probe was relatively small – involving over 200 weapons, just a dozen of which ended up in Mexico as a result of gun-walking. Fast and Furious involved over 2,000 weapons, some 1,400 of which have not been recovered and an unknown number of which wound up in Mexico.


The lies

Obama Spoke About 'Fast and Furious' Before Holder Claimed He Knew

And the coverup

In Holder Subpoena, Issa Also Probes WH Press Aide


Issa`s just gonna disappear.

The subpoenas he`s been dangling?

Poof! Gone.

The big Senate hearings you cons have been masturbating to?

Gone.

Your wank-fodder is just wet-dreams.

A little someting to leave you with.....lol









Now,# 2.





< Message edited by Owner59 -- 10/15/2011 8:57:10 AM >

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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Gun-walking....republican version of fast & furious... - 10/15/2011 8:57:48 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Twelve weapons mnot, vs fourteen hundred.

And there are Holders lies, and there is the coverup in Obamas White House.





So, you can't debate the facts and you are off on derail.


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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Gun-walking....republican version of fast & furious... - 10/15/2011 9:00:14 AM   
Sanity


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There are also some interesting stories coming out about how the weapons were intentionally let go of in the Holder operations, for nefarious purposes. Not that Holder was directly involved, it was more along the lines of negligence, incompetence and blatant cronyism on Holders part, and his direct appointees.

I believe they were all described in that other thread. You know, the one that the mods locked up.







< Message edited by Sanity -- 10/15/2011 9:04:02 AM >

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RE: Gun-walking....republican version of fast & furious... - 10/15/2011 9:02:41 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Who is going for a derail?

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Twelve weapons mnot, vs fourteen hundred.

And there are Holders lies, and there is the coverup in Obamas White House.





So, you can't debate the facts and you are off on derail.



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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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RE: Gun-walking....republican version of fast & furious... - 10/15/2011 9:07:45 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		WASHINGTON -- The federal government under the Bush administration ran an operation that allowed hundreds of guns to be transferred to suspected arms traffickers - the same tactic that congressional Republicans have criticized President Barack Obama's administration for using, two federal law enforcement officials said Tuesday.

...

Following the discovery that agents in Tucson let the guns "walk," a tactic which has long been against Justice Department policy, the department under Obama decided to bring charges against those who had come under investigation in 2006.

...

To date in Wide Receiver, nine people have been charged with making false statements in acquisition of firearms and illicit transfer, shipment or delivery of firearms. Two of the nine defendants have pleaded guilty and a plea hearing is scheduled for Oct. 13 for two other defendants.

....

So, thats the old one, and now the same folks involved in the new one, the difference is this time they are under indictment or have been transferred out...

Obama appears to have done something about it when he knew of it in each case.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Gun-walking....republican version of fast & furious... - 10/15/2011 9:19:47 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Plenty of evidence of bush fuck-ups and no evidence that Holder lied = con-wetdream goes limp.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Gun-walking....republican version of fast & furious... - 10/15/2011 9:21:39 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		What happened to the investigation?

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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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