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RE: Elderly parents - 10/12/2011 8:11:50 PM   
littlewonder


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quote:

Unless your mother is living in a box, naked, she has stuff. Might not be stuff of great value, or even things that you would want, but she has stuff.

A will is NEVER useless, and not meant only for those who have a significant estate to distribute. The big double "Ds" are two things that bring out the absolute worst in people, Divorce and Death.

Even if you get a simple will from a stationary store and fill it out, better to have that than nothing. You said your sister writes her checks for her, so she has a bank account. Want it frozen after her death? Does she have a life insurance policy? Who is going to take responsibility for that cost?

More goes into a will than simply saying who gets your stuff. Having one is in your mother's and you and your siblings best interest.


My mom literally has nothing. She doesn't own a home, has no money except enough every month to pay her bills and maybe $20 left to splurge on little things after her meds and bills are paid. She has nothing at all of value. Me and my sisters have already decided that everything will most likely be put out to the trash. She  has no insurance since she can't afford to pay for it. Between me and my sisters chipping in she'll most likely be cremated since she doesn't care at all what happens to her after her death and we'll just bury her remains on top of her parents. It's the same thing we did with my father after he passed away many years ago since he also had zilch, zero, to his name..no insurance, no accounts and owned nothing other than trash. Me and my sisters chipped in for his death as well. So yeah, for us there was no sense at all for either of them to have a Will.


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RE: Elderly parents - 10/12/2011 10:00:14 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet
Anyone else dealing with an aging parent long distance?  I think part of her problem is depression (she lost my dad and one of my brothers in the last two years), but a lot of it is age.  How do you know when it is time to intervene?  What kind of things do you do to make sure your elderly parents are not being taking advantage of? 

Does she have any pets? Imo, someone with a pet has a different attitude since the pet depends on them and so they have to be taken care of, it motivates the person and keeps a routine, its companionship, someone to talk to, someone to spoil. My mother had a small dog until she died from heart failure about 2 years ago.

Also, my brother renovated his basement and put in a full one bedroom suite with a kitchen so she could live there (she moved about 2000 miles). She had her dog and her own life but he was there when she needed to be driven to the store, someone for her to cook sunday/holiday dinner for, etc. She did give him her car and some money too i believe to compensate him for the renovation, etc. My brother is both a lawyer and an accountant and so she would ask his advice on things, she would still make up her own mind tho and she did her own investing (not thru a stock broker that pushes people into broker biased stocks).

That is what happened with my mother, apart from her heart, she did pretty good.

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RE: Elderly parents - 10/12/2011 10:01:09 PM   
NuevaVida


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First, Lockit, that was simply beautiful.  Thank you so much for sharing that with us.

Here's the scoop with me.  I am the youngest of 5.  One sister is an hour plane ride away but doesn't have anything to do with us. My other sister is 10 minutes from me but has a terminally ill husband and a special needs son. One brother is 45 min away and the other is just over 2 hours away.

Mom is going to be 78 in a couple of months.  Dad died a few years ago.  Mom is aging, and her health is declining, and she's scared shitless, despite being one of the strongest, wisest women I know.  I'm the only "kid" not married, and I'm local to her (half an hour away).  And while my poor sister (the one nearby) does what she can, she is limited because of her own circumstances.

So it falls on me.  I take her to the doctors.  I balance her checkbook.  I figure out all the issues with her phone bill, her cable bill, the water heater that went out earlier this year, the AC unit that went out over the summer, all her insurance stuff, etc., etc., etc.

My brothers claim they are too busy.  Personally, I am growing more and more resentful each year, which is something I struggle with.  Not resentful of Mom, but of the assumption from others that I'll take care of it all for her.  Resentful of their lack of involvement.  Sure, they call occasionally but what the hell is that, in bigger picture?  It would be nice if once in awhile they could rearrange some things in their lives to come spend time with her. 

She's scared.  She's lonely.  She misses my dad.  She keeps herself busy, goes out with friends, and tries to continue to be as self sufficient as she can.  But she knows - more than anyone else, I would think - that the future is going to find her more and more dependent, and that there aren't a lot of people she can rely on.

Her will/living trust is complete.  Her funeral expenses already pre-paid.  I'm a cosigner on most of her accounts.  What she needs is to spend time with her kids.  She knows she made grave mistakes as a mother, and she can't bear to think about them, because she can't forgive herself when she does. She is forgetful, and is more easily confused lately.  She knows her time is limited on this earth now - more limited than ever before.  And she wants to feel like her kids care about her.

If I can suggest anything, it's go visit your mother.  And when you can't, call regularly - like twice a week, at least.  And don't take the sibling who IS taking care of things for her for granted.  Express your appreciation that he/she is there, making his/her own sacrifices for her. 

I sometimes wish I could just move away and let everyone else step up to the plate, but I love her too much.  So I'll continue to miss time off work for her, to care for her after medical treatments (surgery last week, in fact), to drive the hour (commute traffic) after work to go see her, to take her shopping for the obscure stuff, to get the oil changed in her car, and so on - -  because I love her, and because she needs the help.  It would be nice, though, if the others offered more than a phone call every week or so. 

Eek, didn't mean to make this a rant.  It's just that I, and several people I know, have ended up being the caretaker because the others lived far away, and I think those who live far away don't realize what's entailed in that.  Call often.  Visit as much as you can.  Express your concern, love, and appreciation.  It will make a huge difference.


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RE: Elderly parents - 10/12/2011 10:52:01 PM   
littlewonder


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NuevaVida, I feel for you because you sound like my one sister who takes care of our mom. She took care of dad while he was dying as well and now feels she's "stuck" with taking care of another parent because she's simply the only one who still lives in our hometown within 5 minutes of my mom...oh wait..I can't say that. There is one other sister but none of us have spoken to her in many years now and she has nothing to do with the rest of the family either. My sister complains about having to do all the work and I hate that she has to do it alone but other than phone calls and visits a couple times a year and sending money home from time to time to help mom out I'm not sure what else we can do. Mom refuses to move in or closer to the rest of us and none of us have any desire or way to move back to our hometown where jobs are scarce and the winters even scarier.

I feel for you though. It's a terrible burden for one family member to carry it all and do everything and it's not fair. Have you talked to your siblings about how you feel? Maybe just politely ask if they could come visit and give you a small break from time to time?



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RE: Elderly parents - 10/12/2011 11:36:52 PM   
Snort


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

This is something I live.



Thank you for shifting my perspective. Your words were beautiful and truly gave me pause.

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RE: Elderly parents - 10/12/2011 11:45:04 PM   
NuevaVida


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Hi littlewonder,

Thanks for the understanding.  Yes, I've talked to my brothers, and I've asked them to step up.  Actually I called my semi-local brother last week to tell him I'm starting a new job this week and unavailable to take time off to take mom to her follow up doctor appointments, so I need him to.  He actually did it, but it's the first time I've asked that he didn't say no.

My other brother's wife called me to ask if my sister & I have talked about who mom will live with when she can't live alone anymore (as though it's just up to my sister & I).  I said "Yes - she's going to live with you!" 

But other than that, they talk a lot about how much they'll jump in, but there's always a reason they "can't."

What I've seen many times in families, is the one person taking care of the surviving parent eventually can't take anymore, throws up her hands (usually it's a daughter) and walks away from it, which angers the other siblings enough to create an irreparable rift between them all.  It's a sad thing.

I'm sorry for your dilemma, as well.  Often it's just too scary for a parent to pick up and move away like that.  My mom has a community of friends, and doesn't want to leave the home and life she created with her husband - understandably, although eventually we all know it will have to come to that.  Meanwhile, us kids have lives of our own (or are trying to!) yet feel that tug to be there for our parents. 

My only thought is if you're unable to jump in very much and a sibling is doing most of the "in person" stuff, thank them for it once in awhile, or check in to see how THEY'RE doing (rather than what my brother does - calls me to ask how's mom?  um, call and ask her yourself!!).


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RE: Elderly parents - 10/13/2011 8:00:59 AM   
Iamsemisweet


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I couldn't agree more, Lockit gave me some insight. I do think my mom is still relatively physically strong, but she used to be sharp, a cArd shark for instance. She was a grand master bridge player, but she as given it up because she doesn't feel her mind works well enough to be competitive. It must be sad to give up something you love like that. Not to mention that she must dread the phone ringing. More often than not, it is news of some friend or relative dying.
I certainly have had my issues with my mother, she was emotionally abusive at times. I want to keep things light and positive between us, though, and be of more practical help. I also spent a lot of time getting her to talk about family members I never met, like my great grandparents. Not just that they were so and so's mom and dad, but what they were really like. She liked talking about that stuff.
quote:

ORIGINAL: nancygirl34652

Ms Lockit, that was one of the most profound, moving things i have ever read....here or anywhere.

How beautiful and loving to share such personal feelings and thoughts with us...so very, very caring of You.

May we all listen to what You have said and really, truly hear.


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The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
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RE: Elderly parents - 10/13/2011 8:05:42 AM   
Iamsemisweet


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A health care directive is important too. How much end of life care do they want? Just pain management? Respirators? Artificial nutrition? Thank god my mom and dad took care of all that, I would hate to have to try to figure out what she would want while I am in a emotional state.
quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

My mom doesn't own anything and has no money so the whole idea of a Will is basically useless so we haven't even bothered with any of that.



Unless your mother is living in a box, naked, she has stuff. Might not be stuff of great value, or even things that you would want, but she has stuff.

A will is NEVER useless, and not meant only for those who have a significant estate to distribute. The big double "Ds" are two things that bring out the absolute worst in people, Divorce and Death.

Even if you get a simple will from a stationary store and fill it out, better to have that than nothing. You said your sister writes her checks for her, so she has a bank account. Want it frozen after her death? Does she have a life insurance policy? Who is going to take responsibility for that cost?

More goes into a will than simply saying who gets your stuff. Having one is in your mother's and you and your siblings best interest.


_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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RE: Elderly parents - 10/13/2011 8:08:47 AM   
Iamsemisweet


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she does have a pet, and it has made a huge difference. After a lifetime of literally hating cats, she got one. She loves it, and talks about it all the time. I wasn't so sure it was a good idea, but now that I see how happy it makes her, I have changed my mind.
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet
Anyone else dealing

Does she have any pets? Imo, someone with a pet has a different attitude since the pet depends on them and so they have to be taken care of, it motivates the person and keeps a routine, its companionship, someone to talk to, someone to spoil. My mother had a small dog until she died from heart failure about 2 years ago.

Also, my brother renovated his basement and put in a full one bedroom suite with a kitchen so she could live there (she moved about 2000 miles). She had her dog and her own life but he was there when she needed to be driven to the store, someone for her to cook sunday/holiday dinner for, etc. She did give him her car and some money too i believe to compensate him for the renovation, etc. My brother is both a lawyer and an accountant and so she would ask his advice on things, she would still make up her own mind tho and she did her own investing (not thru a stock broker that pushes people into broker biased stocks).

That is what happened with my mother, apart from her heart, she did pretty good.


_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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RE: Elderly parents - 10/13/2011 9:58:30 AM   
kalikshama


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: dovie

Came back to add this piece. Not all of us had parents that treated us kindly. I can't imagine having to care for someone that abused you in some shape or form and forgiveness has not happened in your life or is not possible for you because of the hurt that was done.

dovie



There is a bumper sticker that I absolutely love, that says, "be good to your kids; they'll choose your nursing home."

Sometimes there isn't a lot of obligation, at the back end of the deal.


I've made my peace with my childhood, but won't be helping my father. I would probably feel the same way even if he didn't have other children, money, and an ex wife who helps him out now.

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RE: Elderly parents - 10/13/2011 10:02:54 AM   
kalikshama


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quote:

But other than that, they talk a lot about how much they'll jump in, but there's always a reason they "can't."


If your siblings have a long history of not stepping up don't make yourself crazy expecting them to now.

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RE: Elderly parents - 10/13/2011 10:17:18 AM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko


quote:

ORIGINAL: nancygirl34652

Ms Lockit, that was one of the most profound, moving things i have ever read....here or anywhere.

How beautiful and loving to share such personal feelings and thoughts with us...so very, very caring of You.

May we all listen to what You have said and really, truly hear.



Agreed. Thank you for that, Lockit.


Agreed again. Thank you for sharing that so beautifully, Lockit.

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RE: Elderly parents - 10/13/2011 10:17:27 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

I couldn't agree more, Lockit gave me some insight. I do think my mom is still relatively physically strong, but she used to be sharp, a cArd shark for instance. She was a grand master bridge player, but she as given it up because she doesn't feel her mind works well enough to be competitive. It must be sad to give up something you love like that. Not to mention that she must dread the phone ringing. More often than not, it is news of some friend or relative dying.
I certainly have had my issues with my mother, she was emotionally abusive at times. I want to keep things light and positive between us, though, and be of more practical help. I also spent a lot of time getting her to talk about family members I never met, like my great grandparents. Not just that they were so and so's mom and dad, but what they were really like. She liked talking about that stuff.

Imo, she should get back to playing cards & other games as that would help to keep her mind working and those brain cells regenerating.

Just a thought but,.. perhaps you should have your mother record on a tape recorder all that stuff about family you dont know much about and draw up a family tree, etc so your kids and grand kids & eventually their kids can learn more about where they came from, the stories, the hardships & success your family went thru, etc. My ex wanted to do that with his mother but I dont think he ever did, which is too bad.

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RE: Elderly parents - 10/13/2011 10:26:44 AM   
kalikshama


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When my grandfather was declining, Mom was two hours away with a special needs minor son. She did visit, but not regularly. Reluctantly, my grandfather agreed to have someone come in once a week. He surrendered his license after some incidents (surprising he wasn't killed) and Judy came in twice a week and started taking him on errands. She was a friend of a friend and a really good match. I think he had a crush on her towards the end. She eventually became full time, and at the very end he had someone around the clock.

I realize not everyone has the resources for this, but there is long term care insurance you can buy to help defray the cost. Unfortunately, I believe it gets more expensive as you age, and people don't like to plan for this eventuality when they are young enough for a reasonable rate.

As my ex's Dad was dying, he flew up regularly to help out and still goes regularly to help his Mom, who is physically active but diminishing in capacity. I've been encouraging him for years to find help but he is afraid caregivers will take advantage. His brother visited a few times a year but did not shoulder any of the burden. R is self-employed and has the flexibility to do this.

This spring, I moved back to MA to be available for my mother, who is 73, and my brother, who has special needs, but I was ready to leave Florida anyway so this was an easy choice. I'm now 45 minutes away. I had wanted to be closer, but I think this is better - I'd turn into my brother's chauffeur otherwise.

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RE: Elderly parents - 10/13/2011 10:28:55 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
There is a bumper sticker that I absolutely love, that says, "be good to your kids; they'll choose your nursing home."

Sometimes there isn't a lot of obligation, at the back end of the deal.

Thats funny.. cuz i remember a lot of seniors were driving around in their fancy RVs with bumper stickers saying that they are spending their kids inheritance..


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RE: Elderly parents - 10/13/2011 10:36:42 AM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: dovie

Came back to add this piece. Not all of us had parents that treated us kindly. I can't imagine having to care for someone that abused you in some shape or form and forgiveness has not happened in your life or is not possible for you because of the hurt that was done.

dovie



There is a bumper sticker that I absolutely love, that says, "be good to your kids; they'll choose your nursing home."

Sometimes there isn't a lot of obligation, at the back end of the deal.


I've made my peace with my childhood, but won't be helping my father. I would probably feel the same way even if he didn't have other children, money, and an ex wife who helps him out now.


Extended family members have told my sibs and I, "If my Dad had done half the crap to me that yours has done to you, I'd have nothing to do with him". Looking at him now I dont see the co-dependent narcissist of my youth, I see a man losing touch with reality more often, with few friends living in a pack-rat's house. It's easier to forget the emotional and verbal abuse.

When he can't live alone any longer I think we'll all pull together, the way we did when my Mom became terminal with cancer. My brother is the only sib at a dinstance, but he'll do what he can, too.


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RE: Elderly parents - 10/13/2011 10:50:25 AM   
Lockit


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When I first moved to that big building, I was just glad that I was saved from the way I had to live after 911 killing my business. I was stubborn and determined and not dead yet, but suddenly I had lost everything and that wasn't part of the plan. I very quickly got a death sentence and was no longer fighting for my life, but fighting to finish my life. In the following years, I lived in a little pull behind trailer, a garage that looked like it would fall down in a big wind and you know, I loved those places, even if in the garage, I froze my ass off... but I would rather have been there than any place else because it was mine and no one was telling me what to do. I wasn't yet ready to be in a nursing home and to look at me, you knew I was able and strong and yet I couldn't change the situation. I wasn't bad enough for any assistance and some thought me worthless because I couldn't be productive, not in any way that fit working for an employer.

I was still planning on coming back up, but I needed a safe spot in which to pull everything together and this tower building found me. In an unlikely place I found out about it and when I was pacing in the cold Dec. wondering if I had the nerve to stand in front of a moving train... I heard about this place. Having worked with people in crisis and knowing about the need for assistance, I knew there had to be a waiting list, but still... it was cold out there and my private income of less than five hundred a month wasn't going to get me into anything else. In one day and with less than three hundred dollars I had a place, warmth and safety at last.

I was very blessed to meet these people. I felt it an honor to know them and to get a glimpse into their lives, the ones they lived and the ones they were now living. I decided that people needed to know about this about how these brilliant minds that were going bad and these wonderful hearts were fading and yet still pretty amazing. Yet, I didn't believe anyone would read about them or wish to hear about them. It is like something you fear and avoid. You run here and there in life and you prepare for the later years, but you really don't know them until it touches your life. These people educated me, loved me and cried with me when my son was brain damaged and they all worried that it all would kill me. But my time there saved me. Their love and loving them saved me.

They weren't useless... just a bit diminished. They still had a wealth of information and love to impart and yet, society and life was too busy and people overwhelmed, to take notice of what they were missing. From the wife of a farmer who couldn't keep up, to the local brilliant mind that had done so much for the community, to a big building everyone noticed but didn't know what it was. Each day the ambulance came and took someone we might know away. Someone new came to take their place. They really tried to make things better for the people there, but some couldn't make it to the elevator to go to the one meal a day, that added up to some money you couldn't really afford. No one wanted to join in on the parties held as we weren't children and no one but a child would have liked that. They had one computer way down on the bottom floor that few would use because it was so hard to be there. They had one place we were allowed to go sit outside with enough space or seating for about ten people. That was the place where we learned of others stories and who might need a bit of help. That was where we noticed who was having visitors and who had people that cared. They were the lucky ones and we all knew it and were glad for them and yet... you could see that others wanted a visitor too.

Some of us got better and got out and some had situations where they had to leave, but if you go there today, you will see some of the same people, living there for ten or twenty years, still fighting to get something out of life. I miss those people and sometimes actually wish I were still there.

I'm not as bad off as many were and I slow down, but I am still here taking care of grandchildren, taking care of my son and meeting men that tend to reject me because we know things are going to go bad, we just don't know when. They are bad enough that I am not accepted by most, but I really do have much more to give. We are afraid of what is to come, we don't have time in trying to survive or live our lives to add the extra of someone that's a challenge to take care of. We are afraid to see, afraid to live it and its just a bit easier to not face it. Some do and they take too much on... I really feel for them, but the ones I feel more for are those that don't because at some point they have to face the guilt or the walking away or bury it and one day when they are there, they will feel that maybe something they did or failed to do, was why they would one day suffer too.

So many could be helped and live much better lives with just some small changes. I have a computer that keeps me from being too alone when I am alone and I keep my mind going with games, online mind stimulation puzzles, reading and taking part in lives outside my small life here. My amazing daughter, just 24 is facing taking on not just my son, but maybe even me one day and doesn't blink an eye and shows me I am appreciated. I live in a mobile home park, with a yard I can no longer take care of because of the lack of medical care, but I see many of these places filled with older people struggling to stay right where they are, lonely, isolated and yet wanting to hold on dear to their independence and it is a sad thing when a mobile home gets repaired and new people are there because you know... something bad took that person away.

I watched people that had given up because life had changed so much and yet... with some pretty simple helps... their minds and bodies would have been stronger. Computers... mind puzzles, interacting with people even if only online, knowing that someone finds worth in the mind power you still have and mostly your heart are all things that save us. We need something to do. Someone to love that loves us too. I am a lucky one now that I am here somewhere close to my daughter as I know she has my back. Others... they have no one and just these simple things will keep them going much longer and they will be happier and far less of a challenge to deal with. They just give up on themselves thinking too much has happened and they feel unloved and think they can't learn... well I taught a few to use a computer and they were much happier. They had the means to buy a computer, they did well. I had to force some to believe that while we learn slower and may forget, we can learn new things that will help us as we age.

Get your loved ones active in something that stimulates the mind and the heart and it will be far easier for you and for them.

I don't mean to sound preachy. I just had a glimpse of life that some might not know or see until it is one of those times and I saw a lot of people wasting away that didn't have to. They need purpose, activity that would interest an adult mind, contact with other people where they still have some independence and to love and be loved. If sharing all this... and believe me I am not preaching... I am begging actually, helps just one person see and one person be helped it is worth it and any embarrassment I feel in the sharing. Begging people to see that with a few helps and love strong enough to notice we aren't being as honest about our issues because we are afraid and just as new parents have things to deal with, so do these old folks and there are ways to help them other than simply making sure they don't hurt themselves or forget to pay bills.

I know a group of people from 65 to their nineties that join online, have found love and acceptance and while they may live with family and know and are treated like they are a burden and some live alone unable to do things they need to do... these people are success stories because they continue on the best they can and they have a wealth of love and interesting stories. One is an older dom I met after my son was injured and that is how I found them. Just a computer and online service is really changing their lives and some can't remember to tie their shoes... lol... believe me, they are benefiting. Then there are seniors centers that some can go to, but can't get to. There are simple things you can do to help them and yourself in seeing that they are cared for.

I'm stopping now... I'm sorry if I went off, but there can be life even after dementia or age effects us and we aren't needing a headstone just yet.




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(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Elderly parents - 10/13/2011 11:16:09 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

But other than that, they talk a lot about how much they'll jump in, but there's always a reason they "can't."


If your siblings have a long history of not stepping up don't make yourself crazy expecting them to now.


Oh I absolutely don't.

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(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Elderly parents - 10/14/2011 3:27:42 PM   
quietlyforward


Posts: 2
Joined: 12/27/2010
Status: offline
When my mother's decline started, I moved back to the state where I am from.  It was rough, but I didn't want the entire burden to fall on my sisters who were here.

Each of us has to decide how we deal with this.

Until I moved back, I did several things that made me feel better:
-I arranged for someone to check on my mom regularly
-I made certain her doctor and the local hospital had my contact information.
-I put together a full list of her medications, doctors and care plan and had a her approve in writing permission for me to speak to her health care providers.

Good luck with this.


(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Elderly parents - 10/14/2011 3:29:13 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline
Thank you.

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The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to quietlyforward)
Profile   Post #: 40
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