Justice Antonin Scalia "Nothing Unconstitutional about executing the innocent."

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

Justice Antonin Scalia "Nothing Unconstitutional about executing the innocent."

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Justice Antonin Scalia "Nothing Unconstitutional about executing the innocent."

Page: [1] 2 3 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Justice Antonin Scalia "Nothing Unconstitutional a... - 9/23/2011 1:04:48 AM

Masta808

Posts: 591
Joined: 1/6/2011
Status: offline

In regards to Troy Davis
Justice Antonin Scalia stated

quote:

This Court has never held that the Constitution forbids the execution of a convicted defendant who has had a full and fair trial but is later able to convince a habeas court that he is “actually” innocent. Quite to the contrary, we have repeatedly left that question unresolved, while expressing considerable doubt that any claim based on alleged “actual innocence” is constitutionally cognizable.

I agree, why should actual innocents matter when he was already convicted of being guilty by a jury of his peers. New evidence and new Facts should not taint our legal system after a person has been convicted. It sends a message to criminals every where that if you didnt commit a crime you may go free. In this case, when deciding whether or not to kill someone, his possible innocence is irrelevant. Justice is blind people, it doesnt see the color of your skin, nor does it see the "facts" or "evidence", it hears them, it feels them. Do you really want to live in a society that allows wrong convicted criminals to go free? What about the victims? When will they get their Justice if we start letting actual innocents taint our legal system?

And dont go linking that clip from Boston Legal where Alan Shore takes on the Supreme Court. Thats fiction not reality.

Post #: 1

RE: Justice Antonin Scalia "Nothing Unconstitution... - 9/23/2011 1:11:18 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

My major pet peeve with the justice system in the US.... "convicted" people sitting in jail after DNA has proven they did not commit the crime.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Masta808)

Post #: 2

RE: Justice Antonin Scalia "Nothing Unconstitution... - 9/23/2011 1:13:55 AM

DeviantlyD

Posts: 4382
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Masta808

Thats fiction not reality.

Actually, I think you're fiction, troll-boy.

_____________________________

Goodnight! And if you dream of me remember I like it rough. 😁

(in reply to Masta808)

Post #: 3

RE: Justice Antonin Scalia "Nothing Unconstitution... - 9/23/2011 1:20:15 AM

Masta808

Posts: 591
Joined: 1/6/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Masta808

Thats fiction not reality.

Actually, I think you're fiction, troll-boy.

Well good for you, maybe next time you can actually add something to topic at hand, Instead of trying deride the thread with character attacks.

(in reply to DeviantlyD)

Post #: 4

RE: Justice Antonin Scalia "Nothing Unconstitution... - 9/23/2011 1:23:38 AM

DeviantlyD

Posts: 4382
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Masta808

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Masta808

Thats fiction not reality.

Actually, I think you're fiction, troll-boy.

Well good for you, maybe next time you can actually add something to topic at hand, Instead of trying deride the thread with character attacks.

I'm sorry you see it as a character attack. Personally I don't see it that way at all. You're a troll and you're a boy. How is that an attack? It's just stating the truth of the matter. *shrugs*

Perhaps I could add hypocriticall to it as well? Given the fact you're asking me to add to the topic at hand, when you yourself have added to the derailment of threads.

< Message edited by DeviantlyD -- 9/23/2011 1:24:08 AM >

_____________________________

Goodnight! And if you dream of me remember I like it rough. 😁

(in reply to Masta808)

Post #: 5

RE: Justice Antonin Scalia "Nothing Unconstitution... - 9/23/2011 1:35:56 AM

Masta808

Posts: 591
Joined: 1/6/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Masta808

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Masta808

Thats fiction not reality.

Actually, I think you're fiction, troll-boy.

Well good for you, maybe next time you can actually add something to topic at hand, Instead of trying deride the thread with character attacks.

I'm sorry you see it as a character attack. Personally I don't see it that way at all. You're a troll and you're a boy. How is that an attack? It's just stating the truth of the matter. *shrugs*

Perhaps I could add hypocriticall to it as well? Given the fact you're asking me to add to the topic at hand, when you yourself have added to the derailment of threads.

Did you even bother to read what I posted? This is the politics and religion part of this message board is it not? I posted on something that is going on in current American politics but all you can do call me a troll. Good job of actually adding substance to the topic. Which would bring to mind that you are the one trolling by trying to derail the current thread using Ad Hominem attacks. Since you dont know what Ad Hominem are, here is some help for you.

Abusive ad hominem (also called personal abuse or personal attacks) usually involves insulting or belittling one's opponent in order to attack his claim or invalidate his argument, but can also involve pointing out factual but apparent character flaws or actions that are irrelevant to the opponent's argument. This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and negative facts about the opponent's personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent's arguments or assertions. Examples:

"You can't believe John when he says the proposed policy would help the economy. He doesn't even have a job."
"Candidate Jane's proposal about zoning is ridiculous. She was caught cheating on her taxes in 2003."
"John's argument on LeBron James' failures in the NBA finals aren't worth reading, everyone knows he is a "LeBron" hater."

An abusive ad hominem can apply to a judgment of cultural works or academic efforts based on the behavior or unconventional political beliefs of an artist, author, or musician, or the taste of an infamous person who loved a certain work. Examples:

Jimi Hendrix died of a drug overdose, so his music was worthless.
This person is a troll boy, so his article is worthless
Leni Riefenstahl was a Nazi, so her film The Triumph of the Will is devoid of merit.
Sylvia Plath was a depressive who eventually committed suicide, so her works are unreadable.
That Boris Godunov was the favorite opera of Joseph Stalin indicates the worthlessness of the opera.
What Ted Kaczynski wrote about boundary conditions in mathematics is shown false due to his crimes.
What Jenny said about Axel in third period wasn't true because she got breast implants.

But knowing you will disregard what I have posted and continue to post that I am a troll, thus proving my point.

< Message edited by Masta808 -- 9/23/2011 1:37:07 AM >

(in reply to DeviantlyD)

Post #: 6

RE: Justice Antonin Scalia "Nothing Unconstitution... - 9/23/2011 1:37:58 AM

DeviantlyD

Posts: 4382
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

You have a point? How funny.

Edited to add:

Given the low quality and antagonistic nature of your past posts, why on earth would I take anything you have to say seriously? If you had posted intelligent, thoughtful responses, that would be a different matter. But pretty much everything you've posted is inflammatory.

< Message edited by DeviantlyD -- 9/23/2011 1:45:50 AM >

_____________________________

Goodnight! And if you dream of me remember I like it rough. 😁

(in reply to Masta808)

Post #: 7

RE: Justice Antonin Scalia "Nothing Unconstitution... - 9/23/2011 1:43:08 AM

Masta808

Posts: 591
Joined: 1/6/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

You have a point? How funny.

Thats all you have to add?

(in reply to DeviantlyD)

Post #: 8

RE: Justice Antonin Scalia "Nothing Unconstitution... - 9/23/2011 2:08:45 AM

Masta808

Posts: 591
Joined: 1/6/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

You have a point? How funny.

Edited to add:

Given the low quality and antagonistic nature of your past posts, why on earth would I take anything you have to say seriously? If you had posted intelligent, thoughtful responses, that would be a different matter. But pretty much everything you've posted is inflammatory.

And apparently you dont pay attention to American politics

(in reply to DeviantlyD)

Post #: 9

RE: Justice Antonin Scalia "Nothing Unconstitution... - 9/23/2011 5:36:22 AM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Masta808

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

You have a point? How funny.

Edited to add:

Given the low quality and antagonistic nature of your past posts, why on earth would I take anything you have to say seriously? If you had posted intelligent, thoughtful responses, that would be a different matter. But pretty much everything you've posted is inflammatory.

And apparently you dont pay attention to American politics

Well I don't know if he pays attention to American politics, but he obviously pays attention to the forums here because he nailed you in his replys. But then again you didn't create this screen name to be taken seriously did you? So what's the problem

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert

This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to Masta808)

Post #: 10

RE: Justice Antonin Scalia "Nothing Unconstitution... - 9/23/2011 5:50:30 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

Your thread header contains a lie, that is not a Scalia quote. Scalia was discussing previous Supreme Court rulings in a professional, intelligent, and factual manner and you managed to reduce the discussion down to farglebargles and mnots level of sewer politics at the very beginning of the thread.

Congratulations.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Masta808

In regards to Troy Davis
Justice Antonin Scalia stated

quote:

This Court has never held that the Constitution forbids the execution of a convicted defendant who has had a full and fair trial but is later able to convince a habeas court that he is “actually” innocent. Quite to the contrary, we have repeatedly left that question unresolved, while expressing considerable doubt that any claim based on alleged “actual innocence” is constitutionally cognizable.

I agree, why should actual innocents matter when he was already convicted of being guilty by a jury of his peers. New evidence and new Facts should not taint our legal system after a person has been convicted. It sends a message to criminals every where that if you didnt commit a crime you may go free. In this case, when deciding whether or not to kill someone, his possible innocence is irrelevant. Justice is blind people, it doesnt see the color of your skin, nor does it see the "facts" or "evidence", it hears them, it feels them. Do you really want to live in a society that allows wrong convicted criminals to go free? What about the victims? When will they get their Justice if we start letting actual innocents taint our legal system?

And dont go linking that clip from Boston Legal where Alan Shore takes on the Supreme Court. Thats fiction not reality.

< Message edited by Sanity -- 9/23/2011 5:51:08 AM >

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Masta808)

Post #: 11

RE: Justice Antonin Scalia "Nothing Unconstitution... - 9/23/2011 6:13:00 AM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Masta808

In regards to Troy Davis
Justice Antonin Scalia stated

quote:

This Court has never held that the Constitution forbids the execution of a convicted defendant who has had a full and fair trial but is later able to convince a habeas court that he is “actually” innocent. Quite to the contrary, we have repeatedly left that question unresolved, while expressing considerable doubt that any claim based on alleged “actual innocence” is constitutionally cognizable.

I'm far from a legal expert. But let me interpret as best I can. The second sentence is the crux. In it, Scalia (Sanity disputed the source but I'll ignore him here and simply play ball with Masta808) states that the court's determination of innocence vs guilt must suffice. There can be no claim of "facts" that override a court of law because the purpose of the court is to weigh various facts which may even be conflicting and determine the truth to the best of its abilities.

The first statement is weak because it omits mentioning that a full and fair trial includes provisions for appeal if it is found that the process for arriving at its verdict was flawed. There are provisions for do-overs.

The entire statement could be translated as "The US court system is designed to produce the fairest verdict possible. People may disagree with it, but it works."

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Masta808)

Post #: 12

RE: Justice Antonin Scalia "Nothing Unconstitution... - 9/23/2011 6:19:58 AM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: Masta808

In regards to Troy Davis
Justice Antonin Scalia stated

quote:

This Court has never held that the Constitution forbids the execution of a convicted defendant who has had a full and fair trial but is later able to convince a habeas court that he is “actually” innocent. Quite to the contrary, we have repeatedly left that question unresolved, while expressing considerable doubt that any claim based on alleged “actual innocence” is constitutionally cognizable.

I'm far from a legal expert. But let me interpret as best I can. The second sentence is the crux. In it, Scalia (Sanity disputed the source but I'll ignore him here and simply play ball with Masta808) states that the court's determination of innocence vs guilt must suffice. There can be no claim of "facts" that override a court of law because the purpose of the court is to weigh various facts which may even be conflicting and determine the truth to the best of its abilities.

The first statement is weak because it omits mentioning that a full and fair trial includes provisions for appeal if it is found that the process for arriving at its verdict was flawed. There are provisions for do-overs.

The entire statement could be translated as "The US court system is designed to produce the fairest verdict possible. People may disagree with it, but it works."

And what everyone is overlooking is this is a dissenting opinion.

The Court ruled otherwise.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 9/23/2011 6:26:31 AM >

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 13

RE: Justice Antonin Scalia "Nothing Unconstitution... - 9/23/2011 6:42:19 AM

Iamsemisweet

Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline

Too true Rule. Although sometimes the most interesting opinions are the dissents.

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 14

RE: Justice Antonin Scalia "Nothing Unconstitution... - 9/23/2011 7:46:01 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Your thread header contains a lie, that is not a Scalia quote. Scalia was discussing previous Supreme Court rulings in a professional, intelligent, and factual manner and you managed to reduce the discussion down to farglebargles and mnots level of sewer politics at the very beginning of the thread.

Congratulations.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Masta808

In regards to Troy Davis
Justice Antonin Scalia stated

quote:

This Court has never held that the Constitution forbids the execution of a convicted defendant who has had a full and fair trial but is later able to convince a habeas court that he is “actually” innocent. Quite to the contrary, we have repeatedly left that question unresolved, while expressing considerable doubt that any claim based on alleged “actual innocence” is constitutionally cognizable.

I agree, why should actual innocents matter when he was already convicted of being guilty by a jury of his peers. New evidence and new Facts should not taint our legal system after a person has been convicted. It sends a message to criminals every where that if you didnt commit a crime you may go free. In this case, when deciding whether or not to kill someone, his possible innocence is irrelevant. Justice is blind people, it doesnt see the color of your skin, nor does it see the "facts" or "evidence", it hears them, it feels them. Do you really want to live in a society that allows wrong convicted criminals to go free? What about the victims? When will they get their Justice if we start letting actual innocents taint our legal system?

And dont go linking that clip from Boston Legal where Alan Shore takes on the Supreme Court. Thats fiction not reality.

This is the sort of shitlicking lying nutsucking gaybashing that sanity is famous for.

Never fact, never reason, never credible citation.

If it didn't travel from Limbaughs ass to Sanities tongue, you aint gonna hear anything from him.

But in essence Sanity is right:

This Court has never held that the Constitution forbids the execution of a convicted de-fendant who has had a full and fair trial but is later able to convince a habeas court that he is “actually” innocent. Quite to the contrary, we have repeatedly left that ques-tion unresolved, while expressing considerable doubt thatany claim based on alleged “actual innocence” is constitu-tionally cognizable. See Herrera v. Collins, 506 U. S. 390, 400–401, 416–417 (1993); see also House v. Bell, 547 U. S. 518, 555 (2006); District Attorney’s Office for Third Judi-cial Dist. v. Osborne, ante, at 18.

It was SCALIA AND THOMAS who said it.

(this btw is the prior case that the Supreme Court actually heard, not the denial of hearing the last one and staying execution further...) where the guy went to District Court (thats the 172 page decision quoted earlier; the infamous 'SCOTUS' decision from Southern GA District Court) to overturn a Federal Court decision which in essence was decided that although this guy could do that, the issue would only delay reality in that there was no relief grantable at the district court from the federal decision, so it was like getting a blowjob while wearing a rubber (italics my words interpreting, not SCOTUS')

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 9/23/2011 8:04:30 AM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 15

RE: Justice Antonin Scalia "Nothing Unconstitution... - 9/23/2011 8:16:24 AM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

FR

Lest recent posts might be obfuscating things, the dissenting opinion did not say that Davis should have a new trial or should have his execution stayed. It said that the SCOTUS should not even have bothered sending it back to the District Court because it has no power to grant the relief that Davis petitioned for.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 16

RE: Justice Antonin Scalia "Nothing Unconstitution... - 9/23/2011 8:21:13 AM

Hillwilliam

Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

If it didn't travel from Limbaughs ass to Sanities tongue, you aint gonna hear anything from him.

But in essence Sanity is right:

I'm sorry to repost this (OK Im not) but the above is just fuckin' funny.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 17

RE: Justice Antonin Scalia "Nothing Unconstitution... - 9/23/2011 8:50:10 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Masta808

In regards to Troy Davis
Justice Antonin Scalia stated

quote:

This Court has never held that the Constitution forbids the execution of a convicted defendant who has had a full and fair trial but is later able to convince a habeas court that he is “actually” innocent. Quite to the contrary, we have repeatedly left that question unresolved, while expressing considerable doubt that any claim based on alleged “actual innocence” is constitutionally cognizable.

I agree, why should actual innocents matter when he was already convicted of being guilty by a jury of his peers. New evidence and new Facts should not taint our legal system after a person has been convicted. It sends a message to criminals every where that if you didnt commit a crime you may go free. In this case, when deciding whether or not to kill someone, his possible innocence is irrelevant. Justice is blind people, it doesnt see the color of your skin, nor does it see the "facts" or "evidence", it hears them, it feels them. Do you really want to live in a society that allows wrong convicted criminals to go free? What about the victims? When will they get their Justice if we start letting actual innocents taint our legal system?

And dont go linking that clip from Boston Legal where Alan Shore takes on the Supreme Court. Thats fiction not reality.

I'm convinced you are what is known as a Loki troll. Time to fess up to who you actually are.

(in reply to Masta808)

Post #: 18

RE: Justice Antonin Scalia "Nothing Unconstitution... - 9/23/2011 9:38:45 AM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Masta808

In regards to Troy Davis
Justice Antonin Scalia stated

quote:

This Court has never held that the Constitution forbids the execution of a convicted defendant who has had a full and fair trial but is later able to convince a habeas court that he is “actually” innocent. Quite to the contrary, we have repeatedly left that question unresolved, while expressing considerable doubt that any claim based on alleged “actual innocence” is constitutionally cognizable.

I agree, why should actual innocents matter when he was already convicted of being guilty by a jury of his peers. New evidence and new Facts should not taint our legal system after a person has been convicted. It sends a message to criminals every where that if you didnt commit a crime you may go free. In this case, when deciding whether or not to kill someone, his possible innocence is irrelevant. Justice is blind people, it doesnt see the color of your skin, nor does it see the "facts" or "evidence", it hears them, it feels them. Do you really want to live in a society that allows wrong convicted criminals to go free? What about the victims? When will they get their Justice if we start letting actual innocents taint our legal system?

And dont go linking that clip from Boston Legal where Alan Shore takes on the Supreme Court. Thats fiction not reality.

I'm convinced you are what is known as a Loki troll. Time to fess up to who you actually are.

You only just became convinced of that? It was obvious from his first post, except that he kept getting confused and slipped into lib talking points now and then.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 19

RE: Justice Antonin Scalia "Nothing Unconstitution... - 9/23/2011 1:15:30 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Masta808

In regards to Troy Davis
Justice Antonin Scalia stated

quote:

This Court has never held that the Constitution forbids the execution of a convicted defendant who has had a full and fair trial but is later able to convince a habeas court that he is “actually” innocent. Quite to the contrary, we have repeatedly left that question unresolved, while expressing considerable doubt that any claim based on alleged “actual innocence” is constitutionally cognizable.

I agree, why should actual innocents matter when he was already convicted of being guilty by a jury of his peers. New evidence and new Facts should not taint our legal system after a person has been convicted. It sends a message to criminals every where that if you didnt commit a crime you may go free. In this case, when deciding whether or not to kill someone, his possible innocence is irrelevant. Justice is blind people, it doesnt see the color of your skin, nor does it see the "facts" or "evidence", it hears them, it feels them. Do you really want to live in a society that allows wrong convicted criminals to go free? What about the victims? When will they get their Justice if we start letting actual innocents taint our legal system?

And dont go linking that clip from Boston Legal where Alan Shore takes on the Supreme Court. Thats fiction not reality.

I'm convinced you are what is known as a Loki troll. Time to fess up to who you actually are.

You only just became convinced of that? It was obvious from his first post, except that he kept getting confused and slipped into lib talking points now and then.

I tend to ignore new posters and subliterate posters so I've only read a few of his posts.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 20

Page: [1] 2 3 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Justice Antonin Scalia "Nothing Unconstitutional about executing the innocent."

Page: [1] 2 3 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.125