GOP....Death-Panel-Party....

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Owner59 -> GOP....Death-Panel-Party.... (9/14/2011 6:01:23 PM)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yva0VSN1_T4 Protect Your Care, an outside political group that advocates for health care reform, launched a new campaign targeting Republicans over an eyebrow-raising incident that occurred at Monday night's GOP presidential debate. HuffPost's Sam Stein relays background on the situation that unfolded at the forum: A bit of a startling moment happened near the end of Monday night's CNN debate when a hypothetical question was posed to Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas). "What do you tell a guy who is sick, goes into a coma and doesn't have health insurance? Who pays for his coverage? Are you saying society should just let him die?" Wolf Blitzer asked. "Yeah!" several members of the crowd yelled out. Paul interjected to offer an explanation for how this was, more-or-less, the root choice of a free society. He added that communities and non-government institutions can fill the void that the public sector is currently playing. The Los Angeles Times reports that Protect Your Care Communications Director Eddie Vale said the moment offered "a disturbing view into the Tea Party’s extreme right-wing position on health care when members of the audience clapped and cheered the idea of letting someone without health insurance die." He added, "Even worse, none of the Republican candidates on stage expressed a word of disapproval as the Tea Party audience literally clapped for blood. This was a spectacle one would have expected back in the gladiatorial combat of ancient Rome, not at a presidential debate." In the aftermath of Monday night's debate, NBC News reported that Texas Governor Rick Perry said he was "taken aback" by the way in which the debate audience reacted to the exchange. "We're the party of life. We ought to be coming up with ways to save lives," he explained" http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/14/protect-your-care-campaign-uninsured_n_962115.html

Lucylastic -> RE: GOP....Death-Panel-Party.... (9/14/2011 10:17:05 PM)
see my tag line, watch Jon, Daily Show, Comedy Central sept 13... I cant remember the timing, but its the interview with one of his "roving reporters" I so have a Jon Stewart and Anderson Cooper bondage cbt fantasy:)

Owner59 -> RE: GOP....Death-Panel-Party.... (9/14/2011 10:32:15 PM)
I would like more candidates get pressed on this and not allowed to squirm out. A fundimental question any society must face is do we have a safety net or a sink or swim policy. Do we value life or do we let some die for lack of money. We`ve evolved over the years to what most modern/1st world societies have now,a basic tendency to save and keep people alive, for as long as possible,rich or poor. But that seems to be at risk now, with cons making it ok, to let someone poor get sick/sicker or die.

Kirata -> RE: GOP....Death-Panel-Party.... (9/14/2011 10:42:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 several members of the crowd Several members! Holy fuck. That's serious. I mean damn, everybody knows that there is no better or more certain way to judge a group, be it political, racial, or religious, than by what "several members" say. Who's got the rope? Somebody get some rope. K.

Owner59 -> RE: GOP....Death-Panel-Party.... (9/15/2011 12:07:39 AM)
And how did the candidates react to the cheers? I didn`t see anyone scowling in disapproval. Again,I want to see the cons pressed on this.Or anyone advocating that we desolve the safety net. No weasel words or obfuscating. They have to follow thier morbid scenarios to their ends and and answer the logical questions that come up. Like what do we do with people with no means of support who are sick?Let them die or help them?I`m not sure I want to live in a world like the former. Time to put on the man-pants and answer the damm question.

rulemylife -> RE: GOP....Death-Panel-Party.... (9/15/2011 12:32:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 several members of the crowd Several members! Holy fuck. That's serious. I mean damn, everybody knows that there is no better or more certain way to judge a group, be it political, racial, or religious, than by what "several members" say. Who's got the rope? Somebody get some rope. K. You and I both know how many teabaggerrs feel exactly the same way. But you want to deny it based on your support of them.

Kirata -> RE: GOP....Death-Panel-Party.... (9/15/2011 12:59:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Like what do we do with people with no means of support who are sick?Let them die or help them? However, that wasn't the question... Let me ask you this hypothetical question. A healthy 30-year old man, has a good job, makes a good living, but decides, 'you know what? I'm not going to spend two hundred or three hundred dollars a month for health insurance... I don't need it, I'm healthy'... But okay, nevermind the details. He gets sick, and we'll assume he's poor. Now what? Well we aren't going to let him die. If he dies, it's going to be because the doctors let him die. It's going to be because the doctors decided, 'you know, this guy can't pay me, fuck him.' And in my opinion, any doctor who would say that deserves whatever he gets as a consequence. But you, you don't feel that way. No, you accept that as perfectly reasonable. Who in their right mind would treat someone for free! As Blitzer, too, pointedly asks, "Who's going to pay?" That's the only issue you and Blitzer are worried about: ...but you know, something terrible happens, all of a sudden he needs it. Who's going to pay? So stuff your sanctimonious crap about caring for people. You don't. It's all about money for you, that's all. Who's going to pay? I think that reflects a very sick view of humanity and the value of human life. I hope the rest of us never come to share it. K.

Kirata -> RE: GOP....Death-Panel-Party.... (9/15/2011 1:56:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife You and I both know how many teabaggerrs feel exactly the same way. But you want to deny it based on your support of them. We do, eh? Would that be all the one's NOT yelling, too? Tell me, do you imagine yourself a mind-reader or are you just lying? Looks like both, to me. I don't "support" the Tea Party. I just object to idiots who stereotype entire groups or classes of people. Get used to it. K.

Termyn8or -> RE: GOP....Death-Panel-Party.... (9/15/2011 2:06:02 AM)
"Paul interjected to offer an explanation for how this was, more-or-less, the root choice of a free society. He added that communities and non-government institutions can fill the void that the public sector is currently playing." You know what is the more fucked up tng about this, it reminds me of GHWB's thousand points of light. And you know what's worse, Ron Paul is right, we don't owe anyone healthcare at all. Fukum. Me too, don't think I'm special or anything. Die. T^T

Marc2b -> RE: GOP....Death-Panel-Party.... (9/15/2011 8:19:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife You and I both know how many teabaggerrs feel exactly the same way. But you want to deny it based on your support of them. We do, eh? Would that be all the one's NOT yelling, too? Tell me, do you imagine yourself a mind-reader or are you just lying? Looks like both, to me. I don't "support" the Tea Party. I just object to idiots who stereotype entire groups or classes of people. Get used to it. K. General Reply. I’ve have had RuleMyLife on Block/Hide for some time now but glimpsed his statement in Kirata’s post and felt compelled to comment on it. This statement sums up perfectly what is wrong with the human race, the substitution of bigoted subjective conjecture for objective reality. The objective reality is that there is simply no way to know what any of the people who did not clap were thinking, no way to know what their beliefs or concerns are simply by looking at them. People are individuals, they are unique and to judge them by the actions of others is simply wrong (NOTE: being human myself I make no claims to immunity from this… but, damn it, I try). This can be demonstrated by simply substituting any number of other words to teabaggers in that statement: You and I both know how many Libtards feel exactly the same way. You and I both know how many Neocons feel exactly the same way. You and I both know how many Muslims feel exactly the same way. You and I both know how many Catholics feel exactly the same way. You and I both know how many S&M perverts feel exactly the same way. You could go on and on, substituting all sorts (usually derogatory) terms to describe groups of people Ya know, I’m not sure why I’m writing this… just venting I suppose. I am generally an optimist but it saddens me how many people insist on living in their “us good/them bad” fantasy world… how many people fail to see that they are no different from the very people they excoriate. NOTE: In fairness to RML I’m going to remove him from my Block/Hide list, at least for a little while, so he may respond but it should also be noted that I am not singling him out on this… like I said, it is a problem of the human race.

Owner59 -> RE: GOP....Death-Panel-Party.... (9/15/2011 8:49:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Like what do we do with people with no means of support who are sick?Let them die or help them? However, that wasn't the question... Let me ask you this hypothetical question. A healthy 30-year old man, has a good job, makes a good living, but decides, 'you know what? I'm not going to spend two hundred or three hundred dollars a month for health insurance... I don't need it, I'm healthy'... But okay, nevermind the details. He gets sick, and we'll assume he's poor. Now what? Well we aren't going to let him die. If he dies, it's going to be because the doctors let him die. It's going to be because the doctors decided, 'you know, this guy can't pay me, fuck him.' And in my opinion, any doctor who would say that deserves whatever he gets as a consequence. But you, you don't feel that way. No, you accept that as perfectly reasonable. Who in their right mind would treat someone for free! As Blitzer, too, pointedly asks, "Who's going to pay?" That's the only issue you and Blitzer are worried about: ...but you know, something terrible happens, all of a sudden he needs it. Who's going to pay? So stuff your sanctimonious crap about caring for people. You don't. It's all about money for you, that's all. Who's going to pay? I think that reflects a very sick view of humanity and the value of human life. I hope the rest of us never come to share it. K. Doctors and hospitals/clinics get fee-for-service reimbursements to pay for care given but not payed for.Those are payed with tax dollars. I`m ok with that system and so are most Americans. The "who`ll work for free" argument is a ploy to avoid the issue.So is avoiding the issue by confusing the question. We all know what the question is. Answer the fuck`n question. Do we let poor folks go without care or do we help them as much as we can? If I`m sanctimonious with concern for poor slobs who can`t afford healthcare,what does that make you? Can we put you in charge of telling them they are out of luck?That might be your niche skill-set. So, after the poor slobs are on the street,what exactly do we do them? Forget about them,pretend they aren`t languishing there? Build more bridges for them to live under? Or how about dehumanizing those dirty smeally money grubbing bums, so we don`t feel so bad about forsaking them? Or how about avoiding the question all together and pussing out? What`s your solution,brave guy?

Aylee -> RE: GOP....Death-Panel-Party.... (9/15/2011 10:18:55 AM)
If it is not okay to pull the plug on a hypothetical guy in a coma, why was it okay to pull the plug on Terri Schiavo? And it was only one guy that yelled out "yes." Probably because he just does not care if a person that does not exist in the first place, dies. I cannot say that I care too much about non-existent people dying either.

slvemike4u -> RE: GOP....Death-Panel-Party.... (9/15/2011 10:26:24 AM)
Well I guess we will have to do away with asking hypothetical question than.....I mean that is the basis of hypotheticals isn't it?They usually deal with non existent people....don't they?

Aylee -> RE: GOP....Death-Panel-Party.... (9/15/2011 11:21:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Well I guess we will have to do away with asking hypothetical question than.....I mean that is the basis of hypotheticals isn't it?They usually deal with non existent people....don't they? Or. . . and I know that THIS will just sound all sorts of clazy. . . we could not make social policies based on sob stories about hypothetical people.

slvemike4u -> RE: GOP....Death-Panel-Party.... (9/15/2011 11:25:40 AM)
It was a fucking question...not an attempt to make social policy.What better way to gauge how a candidate might feel about some of the days issues than to pose a hypothetical question meant to elicit a response demonstrating how said candidate thinks on some issue or another?

Kirata -> RE: GOP....Death-Panel-Party.... (9/15/2011 11:41:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u What better way to gauge how a candidate might feel about some of the days issues than to pose a hypothetical question Pose a question based on a real situation? K.

slvemike4u -> RE: GOP....Death-Panel-Party.... (9/15/2011 11:46:32 AM)
That just might work....of course it is much easier to fashion hypotheticals than it is to research actual human tragedies....besides who is going to offer up their sob story so that the whole nation can ponder their stupidity ?

Kirata -> RE: GOP....Death-Panel-Party.... (9/15/2011 12:16:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u of course it is much easier to fashion hypotheticals than it is to research actual human tragedies.... Much easier indeed, because a hypothetical tends to exist in an ill-defined context. Real situations are never quite so simple. Garbage in, garbage out. K.

joether -> RE: GOP....Death-Panel-Party.... (9/15/2011 12:42:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u What better way to gauge how a candidate might feel about some of the days issues than to pose a hypothetical question Pose a question based on a real situation? K. How about you ANSWER questions based on reality for a frakking change? Can you or any of your conservative friends do that? Its a constant annoyance. A question is asked, and EVERY conservative does its best 'Rumsfield denies he stated there were WMDs in Iraq shortly after saying he did'. You duck, dodge, evade, side step, misdirect, 'kill the messenger', hide, jump (over and around), run away, fallback, retreat, and just say nothing. Its absurd that a political philosophy like conservatives have, blasts liberals, Democrats and the President on petty things (or things he has no involvement in to begin with). But yet, give a total pass to the people they vote for. Where is all that 'good goverment' calls when you and others hold absolutely no responsibility or accountibility of Republicans? So the questions I have, are based on reality: Why do conservatives give a free pass with Republicans but absolutely attack Democrats over petty things? Why do conservatives not hold Republicans/Tea Party to the same standard it holds Democrats? Conservatives rail at the President for his recent Jobs Bill. And yet, do not even a complaint to Republicans who promised over a year ago, that if elected in the 2010 mid term election, would push such a thing through Congress. If Democrats did that, would you have given them a free pass? Oh hell no! You would be attacking Democrats whenever and however you could regarding it. Why are you not holding the Republican/Tea Party to the same level of accountibility or responsibility?

Moonhead -> RE: GOP....Death-Panel-Party.... (9/15/2011 12:57:59 PM)
Is Kirata as conservative as all that? It isn't like he's in the same mindset as the rabid Rusheviks who speak for the conservative massive in here, after all. He seems to give considered answers, rather than cut and pasting some line of bullshit a talking head spouted on Fox, or a wingnut posted on a blog from an armed militia camp, for a start.

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