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TENS Unit Trouble! - 8/22/2011 12:46:35 PM   
EmeraldQueen


Posts: 11
Joined: 5/24/2010
Status: offline 		I've just started dabbling in Electric play not to long ago, and Im already hooked. But my biggest question, would be if it was safe to use TENS pads or the Zeus clips on the breasts or nipples of a sub or myself.

I've seen it on Wiredpussy.com and I wanted to know if it was safe to use. Im VERY interested in new sensations with electric play, so anyone with experience in the matter, please help me out!

<3

EQ
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RE: TENS Unit Trouble! - 8/22/2011 12:50:52 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Maybe, kinda ya, no not really.

How old how is the heart (you if no health probs, ok I see you are 24) turn it way way way down..................it is not the bestest of ideas to run that bitch across the heart. Piss poor idea, in fact.........nevertheless, folks do it.


So if you ain't up to explaining it to the EMTs or being on the nightly news, you want to really work on the caution aspect, cuz it just takes that one little time............know whadda mean, vern?


So! I am gonna say a qualified, uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh......


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RE: TENS Unit Trouble! - 8/22/2011 12:52:50 PM   
EmeraldQueen


Posts: 11
Joined: 5/24/2010
Status: offline 		Noooot really.

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RE: TENS Unit Trouble! - 8/22/2011 1:23:12 PM   
mummyman321


Posts: 2102
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Dusseldorf
Status: offline 		The answer to your question is simple. Never play above the waist with electricity. It simply is not safe. Many people do it and are fine but there is no way to guarentee you will be okay. Even if using isolated probes it still is not safe above the waist. Please see PES (Largest BDSM Electro Company) on safe play below.

Interestingly and sadly, the police are seeing more deaths in the use of Police tasers. What was once thought to be a safe option versus a gun, Police and taser manufacturers are now being sued for wrongful death due to tasers stopping the heart.

PES's cautions on Electro Play (read the 2nd paragraph):http://www.peselectro.com/pescontent/index.php?route=information/information&information_id=22


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RE: TENS Unit Trouble! - 8/22/2011 1:38:26 PM   
Muttling


Posts: 1612
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		I would be especially nervous about a tens unit on the breasts/ nipples.  Electricity finds a pathway through the body and connection to both breast is running it right across the heart.

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RE: TENS Unit Trouble! - 8/22/2011 2:43:32 PM   
stoni23


Posts: 178
Joined: 1/14/2010
Status: offline 		you should never do electric play on the chest. I don't see a problem using a shock collar on a neck, seeing as how nobody has died doing that yet, but the heart is almost perfectly between your nipples, and you're putting two electricity points there.... Looks like a perfect path for me. I'm no doctor though, but it just seems logical to me to avoid such a thing.

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RE: TENS Unit Trouble! - 8/22/2011 3:39:59 PM   
CynthiaWVirginia


Posts: 1915
Joined: 2/28/2010
From: West Virginia, USA
Status: offline 		EmeraldQueen...thanks for bringing this up.  I have no experience with electrical play yet but have definite plans...

My sub has some experience with it being used on him, but only from the waist down.  I have heard for years that electrical play from the waist up is not safe and have no plans to go there.  Le sigh.  It would have been so fun to use it on his nipples.

*****
mummyman321, thank you for the link.  I read some of it twice and have questions, so I am going to toss them out in this thread and hope that someone can give me some answers.  I will also hunt through books like SM 101, but this way is often the fastest.

(A quote from the site)

quote:

Never use an anal stimulator as a urethral stimulator. They can be cleaned and disinfected, but not entirely, and there is a possibility of infection. Both anal and urethral electrodes should be used by only one person, and never shared, to help eliminate the possibility of infection.

Huh?  My sub had an electrical device used on him...and one of the gadgets it came with was an e-stim butt plug.  It was safe, and he liked it.  Surely not all of these things are impossible to clean thoroughly between use.  Normally I would put it inside of a condom, but...  What about non-latex condoms?  Has anyone used these on e-stim insertables?  Are some brands easier to clean than others?  (For example, does one brand use something that is a bit porous...?  Dumb idea, but ya never know.)  I am not even considering using something from butt to urethra, but still, it made me think about germs.

Also, I am having a WTF moment over this from that site:
quote:

Do not apply to any body piercing.
My sub had e-stim done by his ex on his piercings and had no trouble with it.  If this can cause complications or damage, I would like to hear more about it now.  It is a shame that the article didn't get more specific.  

Also, I am wondering at what setting...that problems with piercings come up...

*****
edited because part of my post was not in bold and was smaller than the rest.

< Message edited by CynthiaWVirginia -- 8/22/2011 3:46:08 PM >

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RE: TENS Unit Trouble! - 8/22/2011 4:00:08 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Hey there, I got Uncle Abduls book called Juice and thoroughly enjoyed his website on health issues and safety
Here is the link to some issues, but the whole site is worth reading, altho its not a snappy website, it gives the info you might need want and be happy for
http://www.uncleabdul.com/UAweb17.htm
have fun


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RE: TENS Unit Trouble! - 8/22/2011 4:24:19 PM   
mummyman321


Posts: 2102
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Dusseldorf
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CynthiaWVirginia

(A quote from the site)

quote:

Never use an anal stimulator as a urethral stimulator. They can be cleaned and disinfected, but not entirely, and there is a possibility of infection. Both anal and urethral electrodes should be used by only one person, and never shared, to help eliminate the possibility of infection.

Huh?  My sub had an electrical device used on him...and one of the gadgets it came with was an e-stim butt plug.  It was safe, and he liked it.  Surely not all of these things are impossible to clean thoroughly between use.  Normally I would put it inside of a condom, but...  What about non-latex condoms?  Has anyone used these on e-stim insertables?  Are some brands easier to clean than others?  (For example, does one brand use something that is a bit porous...?  Dumb idea, but ya never know.)  I am not even considering using something from butt to urethra, but still, it made me think about germs.

*****


Hi Cynthia,
The point they are trying to make is that never use something that you have put up the butt on the urethra. Unless you Autoclave the device there is no way to guarentee its sterile. Anything being put in the urethra should be sterile or it can cause an infection. So basically they recommend using dedicated toys for the urethra only. And a good rule is a person should have their own personal insertable toys.

Condoms on insertables works well but you cannot do that for electro play because electricity cannot pass through the condom.

< Message edited by mummyman321 -- 8/22/2011 4:25:28 PM >

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RE: TENS Unit Trouble! - 8/22/2011 4:37:20 PM   
CynthiaWVirginia


Posts: 1915
Joined: 2/28/2010
From: West Virginia, USA
Status: offline
Thank you, Lucylastic.  From what I read from other sources, the Violet Wand was safe...thank goodness for this site letting me know about problems that could come up and how I can prevent them.  Not that I have a Violet Wand.  Yet. 

I am about to go offline until much later tonight (early a.m. hours), so I will do more reading then.  With a little luck, I will find some info about e-stim and piercings as well.

Again...thanks bunches.  Your help was very appreciated, and yes, I will add that book to my must buy list.

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RE: TENS Unit Trouble! - 8/22/2011 4:42:03 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		There are some new violet wands being introduced by a company called kinklab..they are new units and have about four of the little glass attachments, . They look to be retailing for around 130-150 bucks. Im looking at them for myself. If anyone has any info, I sure could use them, But Cynthia, you are MOST welcome:) its been an interest for a long time, so Ive researched a lot:)

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RE: TENS Unit Trouble! - 8/22/2011 4:46:32 PM   
MistressDarkArt


Posts: 5178
Status: offline 		If you look carefully at Wired Pussy, you will see they put electrodes to each side of a nipple from the same channel, isolating the current to flow the short distance through the nipple and not across the chest. For more in-depth discussion of electro on the nipples, do a search on www.smartstim.com. Lots of extremely smart cookies on that board.

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RE: TENS Unit Trouble! - 8/22/2011 4:46:44 PM   
mummyman321


Posts: 2102
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Dusseldorf
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CynthiaWVirginia

Also, I am having a WTF moment over this from that site:
quote:

Do not apply to any body piercing.
My sub had e-stim done by his ex on his piercings and had no trouble with it.  If this can cause complications or damage, I would like to hear more about it now.  It is a shame that the article didn't get more specific.  

Also, I am wondering at what setting...that problems with piercings come up...



This is a little harder to answer. Basically your skin acts as a resistor. Thus when an electrode is applied to the skin it will resist the flow (current) of electricity. A piercing has very little resistance and will allow full current to reach deeper in the tissue. The higher current can cause muscles to severly jerk or contract. The higher current can also damage certain soft tissue. Here the site is being safe because there is no way they can say it is safe. The location of the piercing and the amount of current greatly influence if this is harmful or not.

One example I can give is the common 9 volt battery. You can touch the electrodes of a 9 volt battery to a persons chest and cause no harm and virtually feel nothing. Now put your tongue across the electrodes of the 9 volts battery and your tonque tinkles and jerks away. A wet tongue has a lot lower resistance. Now if you were to attach the 9 volts battery to lets say a piercing through a each thumb. There is now enough current flowing through the body to stop the heart! A simple 9 volt battery can and does produce enough current to kill a person but only if that current can get through the high resistance of the skin. I hope this make a little more sense now.

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RE: TENS Unit Trouble! - 8/23/2011 3:12:48 AM   
MalcolmNathaniel


Posts: 1394
Joined: 9/20/2010
Status: offline 		Warning: Long, and way too boring.

Electricity is a lot more complex than most people realize. The human body can be electrically modeled far simpler than most people realize. But still complex enough that if you don't _really_ know what you are doing you can seriously harm or kill someone.

mummyman321 is partially correct about the skin acting as a resistor, although the thing about piercings is fear mongering if the piercing is fully healed. At that point the current is simply using the piercing post as an electrode and the scar tissue around it has the same electrical characteristics as skin.

That only works with DC current though. When you get to AC it's a completely different thing.

With AC your skin can be modeled by a small network of resistors and capacitors. The end result is what is called, in electrical engineering jargon a "band-pass filter." The band it passes is between 50 and 240 Hertz (cycles per second.) This is why the AC in your house can be so flipping dangerous. The TENS means Transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation. Transcutaneous is the word we are most concerned with here. It basically means that it works in exactly the range of frequencies that the skin acts as a band-pass filter for. If you want to think of it another way: your skin is completely transparent to the TENS.

Once inside the body the two major pathways for current to pass is through the cardiovascular or neural networks. Both of these systems are filled with electrolytes. It doesn't take much current to start major trouble. About 5 thousands of an Ampere or so. At about 50 mA cause major burns or death.

But it gets worse!

Your heart goes THUMPthump...THUMPthump...THUMPthump because an electrical pulse goes through your nerves from just under your left shoulder down to about your liver. It works at a very specific frequency. If you want to know that frequency check your pulse. It doesn't have a lot of current, but it's enough to make your heart chambers work in a specific order. If you look at it on an oscilloscope it looks like a big sine wave followed by a small sine wave and a pause.

However, a larger current across that area makes your heart go THUMPTHUMPTHUMPTHUMP in a constant sine wave. That's called fibrillation. The thing with the paddles that EMTs carry and you've seen in television shows is a defibrillator.

Guess what? Your heart rate is going to be between 50 and 240 Hertz. And what frequency does a TENS unit work at?

This is why you never ever play with electricity anywhere near the heart, brain or spinal column.

So why can't anyone give you numbers on what is safe? Remember back near the beginning of this very long post I said that the nervous and cardiovascular systems are full of electrolytes? That's just a fancy word for salts. So if you take a break and give your sub a Gatorade the same thing you were just doing can now be deadly.

Sorry for the long post, but this is the short version of how electrocution works.

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RE: TENS Unit Trouble! - 8/23/2011 4:25:53 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline 		Actually it was really interesting. Thank you MN!

#7

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RE: TENS Unit Trouble! - 8/23/2011 9:52:42 AM   
DommeKeliDallas


Posts: 311
Joined: 1/27/2008
Status: offline 		NO.

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RE: TENS Unit Trouble! - 8/23/2011 2:24:20 PM   
CynthiaWVirginia


Posts: 1915
Joined: 2/28/2010
From: West Virginia, USA
Status: offline 		Thank you, MalcomNathaniel and mummyman321, for the lessons in electricity.  I barely grasped some of it, other than reinforcing not to do anything above the waist...and that what level is safe at one time might be dangerous after taking a break and giving my sub something salty.

The Violet Wand Lucylastic mentioned sounds lovely, but it would be something for his entire skin and would be a separate thing from the other.  I heard it gives a tingle and makes hair stand up and is relaxing.  I intend it for light sensations only and was surprised that someone could give second degree nipple burns.

MN, about the piercings...   They are restricted to his genitals. Getting him hard whenever I want or/and/ forcing him to cum when I want sounds fun, I have no plans to use electrical devices for interrogation type scenes.   

His other piercings are still fresh and he is getting eight more this week, so I will have to move getting that electrical gadget lower on our list until he has healed.

The last time someone used electricity on him, he had fresh piercings and the settings were low enough that he liked it and had no damage done.  Unfortunately, I cannot remember right now which electrical gadget was used, whether it was a TENS or not.  I am glad she had him remove his piercings because it was so much fun being there with him while they were redone; I am talking about the frenum ladder and not the PA.  The PA was left intact. 

The PA, ladders, a Hadafa, a Gooch, and a set of three rings...one at the pubic bone and one at each side of his scrotum...these are the piercings I will limit myself to.  There will be no nipple piercings. 

This thread has been a lot of fun.    Thanks, everyone.

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RE: TENS Unit Trouble! - 8/23/2011 2:33:31 PM   
mummyman321


Posts: 2102
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Dusseldorf
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MalcolmNathaniel

mummyman321 is partially correct about the skin acting as a resistor, although the thing about piercings is fear mongering if the piercing is fully healed. At that point the current is simply using the piercing post as an electrode and the scar tissue around it has the same electrical characteristics as skin.



My appologies if it sounded like I was fear mongering that was not my intent. I was simply trying to explain why PES would say not to use it on Piercings. They have to cover their butt so to speak from people who do dumb things. And I am sure there are people who go get a piercing and are playing with electricity before it is healed properly.



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RE: TENS Unit Trouble! - 8/23/2011 2:36:31 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DommeKeliDallas

NO.


Huh? Why did you respond to my post with this?


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RE: TENS Unit Trouble! - 8/23/2011 2:45:54 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		From My understanding, all types of human cells have the potential to pass current.  It's the type of cell that determines the resistance factor.  This is why scar tissue is more conductive than normal skin cells.

Electricity will always take the path of least resistance.  Scars offer that path and allow the electricity to go where it wasn't intended.  Same thing with open wounds. 

Malcolm was bang on about the subject of fibrillation.  The very same electricity that can jump start a heart when it isn't pumping is the same electricity that can stop a heart when it's beating properly.  Frequency has much to do with this and it's why you'll hear folks talk about the difference in currents between the TENS and the violet wand. 


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