Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (Full Version)

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gorgeoushair -> Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/21/2011 6:46:17 AM)

Sometimes i wonder about submission and whether it is about low self esteem or whether it is really a very positive thing, even exploring a higher part of myself. Anyone else have thoughts about this? (i have no idea what that vanilla icon is or how to get rid of it...lol.)






DesFIP -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/21/2011 6:51:15 AM)

You lose the ice cream cone after 26 posts. Don't fret about it.

Some submissives have low self esteem and some have high. Just like some submissives are tall and some are short. No correlation between your preferred role in an interpersonal relationship and self esteem.




angelikaJ -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/21/2011 6:52:45 AM)

I don't think it is an either/or answer.
It is an individual as the people.

I had lower self esteem prior to this relationship with the man who became my Master. In my case I don't think submission had anything to do with low self-esteem, but my selection of partners did: seeking domineering partners who tended to be abusive (back when I was in a couple of vanilla relationships) instead of dominant ones.

My Master did not see me as a fix-it project but he has guided me and that guidance has given me direction and that direction has brought me other positive changes.




Lockit -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/21/2011 6:56:24 AM)

I have seen a number of dominant's that had low self esteem. I doubt it is a role thing and is more of a personal thing.




Tantriqu -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/21/2011 7:01:34 AM)

I wouldn't want a masochist with low self-esteem and who needs constant reassurance, which is just this side of narcissism [think of all the beautiful Hollywood barbie-dolls in abusive relationships]. I want a happy good man, who gets aroused at the thought of Serving.




erieangel -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/21/2011 7:07:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

I don't think it is an either/or answer.
It is an individual as the people.

I had lower self esteem prior to this relationship with the man who became my Master. In my case I don't think submission had anything to do with low self-esteem, but my selection of partners did: seeking domineering partners who tended to be abusive (back when I was in a couple of vanilla relationships) instead of dominant ones.

My Master did not see me as a fix-it project but he has guided me and that guidance has given me direction and that direction has brought me other positive changes.



That's me too. Well, all but the last paragraph. I'm still looking for a master. But my career path has done wonders for my self esteem. [:)]




lally2 -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/21/2011 7:48:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

I don't think it is an either/or answer.
It is an individual as the people.

I had lower self esteem prior to this relationship with the man who became my Master. In my case I don't think submission had anything to do with low self-esteem, but my selection of partners did: seeking domineering partners who tended to be abusive (back when I was in a couple of vanilla relationships) instead of dominant ones.

My Master did not see me as a fix-it project but he has guided me and that guidance has given me direction and that direction has brought me other positive changes.
  

quoting because thats how it has been for me too.

the journey has taught me a whole lot about myself and how as a sub im not weak at all, if anything im way stronger than i ever imagined.

now im going into a relationship where im really strong and self assured, with total self esteem, total personal power and im actually a little concerned that i might just be a bit too self empowered... lol.  but then its been a while....! im sure itll be fine.

but no, i dont think self esteem is the issue for everyone who is sub, i think it is, as angelikaJ has said, all about finding confidence in who you are and one of the best ways to do that is to find the right 'mirror' for you.  its then that youre confidence soars and the changes that come about from that are amazing.  if it was self esteem for everyone then it stands to reason that every sub that ever was, would not be the strong, self assured, confident and happy individuals that ive come across over time.




LillyBoPeep -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/21/2011 7:49:48 AM)

my self-esteem was a lot lower before my last relationship. feeling "normal" and getting to know myself better definitely helped build it up. 




sunshinemiss -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/21/2011 7:50:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gorgeoushair

Sometimes i wonder about submission and whether it is about low self esteem or whether it is really a very positive thing, even exploring a higher part of myself. Anyone else have thoughts about this?



I think your question is a very common one - the wondering that is.  If one does something that, at first blush, looks like something we've been told should be labeled "low esteem action" then it is natural to wonder at some point if it is in fact a manifestation of low self-esteem.  However, it is about going beyond what is obvious that one realizes the reality. 

How about an analogy?  There are people who deliberately dress in baggy, unattractive clothes.  Some people would say that is proof of their low self-esteem.  However, perhaps there is a different reason.  Perhaps it is a woman who was recently raped, and this is one of her (very healthy) ways of managing the aftermath.  Perhaps it is someone who recently had surgery and the rubbing of the cloth hurts.   Perhaps it is someone who just feels more comfortable in those clothes or they work in a job where those types of clothes are wiser than others.  Perhaps this is the sweatshirt that her father used to wear, and she is grieving his death.  When we look at the person, and we see them in unattractive, baggy clothes, we may label them as "having low self esteem."  However, that may very well NOT be the case. 

The same is true with submission.  And frankly, many (if not most / all) submissives question their behavior, question the meaning of the role that seems to fit them.  We can't pretend that our culture, our fairy tales, our norms, the peer pressure, parental demand, the media don't affect us.  They do.  Sometimes in wonderfully positive ways, sometimes in ugly ways. 

Service to others is generally accepted as a positive thing in many cultures - some more than others.  Even within those cultures there are neighborhood norms, religious norms, familial norms, even the norms of one person - not everybody in the family does things the same way after all! 

Here is a website that discusses the way many religious view service to others - in a very positive light, by the way. 

There are any number of studies on people helping others and what it does for the helper.  No action is in and of itself anything in particular.  It is only what we ascribe to it.

Best,
sunshine




chiaThePet -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/21/2011 9:08:49 AM)


My opinion on E-steem, or internet facials as otherwise known, (mind out of the gutter Ron)
is that technically they are great for pore cleansing and stimulating blood flow. The addition
of stimulants or alcohol can definitely take one higher but is ultimately discouraged due to
the risk of....................................

Excuse me?

It's about what?

Ohhhhhhh.

Nevermind.

chia* (the pet)




littlewonder -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/21/2011 9:32:59 AM)

it's neither. It's simply a personality trait for me. 




Ninebelowzero -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/21/2011 9:34:26 AM)

I've seen both extremes on subs & Dommes tbh, Some folk are born energy &/or emotion vampires & their kink incorporates that personality element & some have a very confident positive persona & that is inherent in their play too. You takes your pick.




slaveluci -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/21/2011 10:21:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

In my case I don't think submission had anything to do with low self-esteem, but my selection of partners did: seeking domineering partners who tended to be abusive (back when I was in a couple of vanilla relationships) instead of dominant ones.


Ditto! In seeking to be dominated, I allowed myself to be abused. Big difference. Huge............luci




MistressDarkArt -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/21/2011 2:52:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu

I wouldn't want a masochist with low self-esteem and who needs constant reassurance, which is just this side of narcissism [think of all the beautiful Hollywood barbie-dolls in abusive relationships]. I want a happy good man, who gets aroused at the thought of Serving.


This. And this again!!




sexyred1 -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/21/2011 3:23:16 PM)

It is not low self esteem. It is not seeking a higher part of ourselves.

For some people it is how we get off.

Nothing more, nothing less.

There is a tremendous amount of grey in the world, so trying to make it black or white does not always work.




gorgeoushair -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/21/2011 4:24:04 PM)

Lally:
I like your "all I have to do is please him" especially the improbable part...and serving tea...
Thanks for your response. Thanks to everyone.




gorgeoushair -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/21/2011 4:26:49 PM)

Actually, it was not meant to be a real either or question. I know that things are gray, not black and white. Just presenting points along the spectrum to get the discussion going. ;))




fallon0627 -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/21/2011 4:34:20 PM)

For me I had lower self esteem before I acted on my submissive feeling. And even though my Dom is into humiliation my self esteem is constantly improving and my self image is healthier. For me being submissive has only improved my life. It also helps that I have a good Dom.




DomImus -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/21/2011 5:00:20 PM)

I've never seen any direct correlation between submissive tendencies and low self esteem. I know some submissive folks who clearly have a few esteem issues and many others who do not. 




HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/21/2011 5:09:43 PM)

I had very low self esteem before I submitted. It's through submitting that I have found my confidence and my sense of self worth.




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