RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (Full Version)

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kalikshama -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/21/2011 6:24:29 PM)

quote:

Sometimes i wonder about submission and whether it is about low self esteem or whether it is really a very positive thing, even exploring a higher part of myself.


Getting fabulous sex on a regular basis is great for self esteem. I just happen to be wired to get off on being submissive and masochistic.

Regarding higher self exploration, I couldn't find the Dossie Easton quote I was looking for on BDSM and spirituality, but this book (which I have not yet read) seems on topic and I'm going to order it:

Radical Ecstasy: S/M Journeys to Transcendence

Radical Ecstasy: S/M Journeys to Transcendence chronicles our journeys into S/M spiritual practice. As co-authors and lovers we explore, separately and together, the intersection of S/M and Tantra, in a powerful practice that is becoming known around the world. I have taught workshops and weekends in England, Ireland, Germany, the Netherlands, Canada, and all over the United States. In this book, we describe what we have learned and experienced, and we offer what might be of use to you on your own journeys.

Too many people believe that sexuality and spirituality are mutually exclusive or somehow opposed to each other. Sex is a wonderful manifestation of spirit moving in our lives, in our bodies, and between each other. Sexual sharing creates intense connections and generates great waves of love. Nothing could be more sacred than the sharing of our sexual fire.



stoni23 -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/21/2011 6:43:00 PM)

I have a very strong self esteem and a high level of self confidence, but am very submissive. I don't think self esteem correlates with submission or dominance



peppermint -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/21/2011 6:46:01 PM)

After the husband passed away I was not ready to submit as I had nothing to offer.  It took time to get adjusted to a new way of life.  It took time to be comfortable as a single.  Only when I felt strong did I even consider looking for someone with whom to share my life.  I finally had something I felt was worth offering to another. 

I'm sure there are submissives with low self esteem who can benefit from a D/s or M/s relationship.  I am also sure there are strong self confident submissives who also benefit from a D/s or M/s relationship.  It all depends on the individual, what they seek, and the relationship. 



poise -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/21/2011 6:54:03 PM)

I’ve given this some thought and I find the opposite seems to be more
logical to me. If one already feels so little of herself and that she has
nothing of value to offer someone, where would she gain the confidence
in thinking someone else would want her?
As angelica mentioned, low self esteem may lead them more easily into abusive situations,
but being submissive has very little to do with being abused.

There is a marvelous quote I read somewhere.
Submission isn't thinking less of oneself, but thinking of oneself, less.



gorgeoushair -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/24/2011 3:46:06 AM)

@ Sunshine - Helpful response, thanks. I think that it is healthy to "check in" with one's motivations, on any issue, from time to time. Motivation is not necessarily static and can change.



gorgeoushair -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/24/2011 3:57:19 AM)

@ Poise, thank you for your response. A follow-up question on a slightly different note: What do you think of the notion that allowing yourself to be struck by a crop or flogger or hand, even if consensual and sane and safe, is just not a positive, thing for your body or your spirit, period, and can therefore negatively affect your overall health and well-being? This is something I am tackling/exploring right now...



hangemhigh1953 -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/24/2011 11:59:49 AM)

There's a million different reasons for submission. Low self esteem can be one of them but personally I think it's unhealthy to choose submission solely because you hate yourself.



poise -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/24/2011 2:00:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: gorgeoushair

@ Poise, thank you for your response. A follow-up question on a slightly
different note: What do you think of the notion that allowing yourself to be
struck by a crop or flogger or hand, even if consensual and sane and safe,
is just not a positive, thing for your body or your spirit, period, and can
therefore negatively affect your overall health and well-being?
This is something I am tackling/exploring right now...


I think it is really easy for those that have never experienced being spanked
or flogged, to think that those that consent to such things must have a broken spirit,
or feel so little of themselves that they subject themselves to such harsh treatment.

I don't buy into that notion. For me, it actually enhances my spirit, and it’s far
more an emotional connection/release than a physical one, at least in the beginning.
I like to think of it as him having really rough sex with all my non sexual parts.
Does it hurt? You betcha! Will I bruise? If I’m lucky. But the body is miraculous
in its ability to heal itself quickly, and while it can happen, it’s a very rare
occurrence where one will have to visit a hospital because of a spanking.
Remember the key words. Safe Sane and Consensual.

Since the initial discussion started off regarding submission, I feel it is important
to mention that being submissive does not mean you are also a masochist.
Since you have just recently started exploring things related to this lifestyle, you are going
to come across many many MANY things that you wont ever want to experience.
I also feel it is important for you to know that you are just as individual a submissive
as you are a woman, and you aren’t any less a submissive simply because you don’t like feeling pain.

A great book to read to help you along in your exploration.
Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns :
The Romance and Sexual Sorcery of Sadomasochism by Philip Miller, Molly Devon, William A. Granzig



gorgeoushair -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/24/2011 5:24:28 PM)

@ poise, thanks again for your response and the info. I am not really talking about the severity of the blows, but any blow to the body, no matter how small. Just something I am thinking a lot about lately. I've been on a real health tear and how the mind and body work together, and for the first time added the spiritual (not religious) factor. I think I might be looking at my health and well-being from a completely different point of view now, that's all. And, it may call into serious question whether or not I will be involved in any lifestlye relationship in the future. Just my life and opinion--not anyone else's. I really appreciate your response and everyone else's, too. Adds to what I might consider...




LPslittleclip -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/25/2011 1:11:51 PM)

as a collared slave i was not lacking in self esteem but guidance. it was the relationship with my Mistress that has guided me and allowed me to be more focused even my wife likes the changes in me and sometimes reccomends i spend time with my Mistress.



Arpig -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/25/2011 1:35:37 PM)

From the opinions expressed in this thread and your Well-being thread, it is pretty obvious that you think submission is akin to self-harm.

Why is that?



Firebirdseeking -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/28/2011 5:15:03 PM)

I had submissive feelings all my life and never knew what they were. I was 5 when I saw The King and I, and from that point forward, I was fascinated with a certain type of man. Having said that, there are many things in our culture that keep us from embracing our submissive feelings; speaking as a female sub, I would say that there are all the societal messages that we should have broad shoulders now, bring home the bacon, do it all, not "need" a partner, not be "needy". I bought this at one level. I did not understand that one can be dominant, for example, professionally; but at a personal level, need something very different. Once I realized there was a word for the feelings I had, I no longer felt different and somehow "less than" for wanting a relationship where I was not in charge. So I feel, once having embraced my submissive needs, that my self esteem really took a sharp growth curve. I also understand that some people submit because they feel they are not worthy, but that is also not really what I call submissiveness, it is having low self esteem and no backbone.



PeonForHer -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/28/2011 5:30:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

How about an analogy?  There are people who deliberately dress in baggy, unattractive clothes.  Some people would say that is proof of their low self-esteem.  However, perhaps there is a different reason.  Perhaps it is a woman who was recently raped, and this is one of her (very healthy) ways of managing the aftermath.  Perhaps it is someone who recently had surgery and the rubbing of the cloth hurts.   Perhaps it is someone who just feels more comfortable in those clothes or they work in a job where those types of clothes are wiser than others.  Perhaps this is the sweatshirt that her father used to wear, and she is grieving his death.  When we look at the person, and we see them in unattractive, baggy clothes, we may label them as "having low self esteem."  However, that may very well NOT be the case. 


Two more examples:

I wear my glasses when I go out in thin t-shirts or vests.  I want to 'balance' my face against my muscles. 

And I take the p out of myself - I crack jokes at my own expense.  I've always taken self-deprecating humour as a sign of strength in anyone.  It makes me feel stronger in myself every time I do it.

Nah.  Forget it.  Truth is, I submit because I enjoy it.  It makes me very, very, *very* horny.




newdeep -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/29/2011 6:24:03 AM)

I agree with the people on here saying it's individual and not related to the "role". Well, it can be, but in all the different combinations.

Thinking about it ... actually, I have more self-esteem when I am submitting. Sometimes I'm in a bad mood, not very proud of myself, and that's when I am not really feeling the desire to submit. It is like I need to be ok with me to really submit.

Make sense?



PeonForHer -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/29/2011 7:26:22 AM)

Yep.  Absolutely. 



g2011 -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (8/29/2011 1:20:23 PM)

My very limited experience has always led me to a peaceful,focused mindset.Once I get past all the crap that seems to clutter my brain.I never felt any lacking of selfesteem ,altho I do question why I am wired this way,sometimes!



gorgeoushair -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (9/1/2011 3:43:50 AM)

@ Arpig -

Nope.  Just exploring new information that has come my way, new ideas and new feelings.  In the long run, it may be that the lifestyle will not be my way of life.  Maybe yes, maybe no.  i have not been involved in it very long.  Can't a girl wonder, ponder, raise questions about her experience and her ideas, here?  Thanks for your response, as always ... [:D]



gorgeoushair -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (9/1/2011 3:51:59 AM)

@ Firebirdseeking --

Thanks for your thoughtful response.  i can relate. i am a very strong person.  i have met career challenges, carried and carry enormous responsiblities and faced mountains of strife.  It is fascinating what happens in submission.  Sometimes, though, i wonder/question whether the lifestyle is for me (please, no "you just need a good spanking/whipping respones"...lol), and i get a lot from everyone's responses ... thanks again.    [;)]



gorgeoushair -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (9/1/2011 3:53:30 AM)

@ newdeep --

Absolutely, and thanks!   [:D]



Firebirdseeking -> RE: Submission - Low Self Esteem or Something Higher (9/1/2011 4:15:39 AM)

Georgeoushair, years ago someone told me that men who say things like that are not strong enough for me. A strong woman needs an even stronger pair of shoulders behind her. I can also relate to what you are saying. Also, for some here, D/s is all about the sexual dynamic (there is a difference between D/s and Top/bottom); in other words, there are bedroom Dommies and bedroom subbies. I was looking for a man capable of leading in all areas of his life, so I did not have to. It took years but I found it. I had my "epiphany" on another site - not here. I got here when I was ready. And even then, I wondered.



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