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RE: Herman Cain....One World Class Buffoon... - 7/17/2011 10:29:42 PM

joether

Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
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So....this guy has proved he's a total idiot on the understanding of the 1st Amendment? Can we move on to dealing with serious things again? Like dealing with the rising unemployment? The US Debt? The budget? Maybe making America the #1 place for science and mathematics? Yes, 'Ha-Ha', we've proved once more the guy is 'a few clowns short of a full circus' like nearly all the other idiots running for the GOP ticket (see the Herman Cain thread of the 'Fair Tax Act' for a decent example).

I thought Wilbe's post was rather ironic...

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
When you are as successful as he is come back and tell us how dumb he is.

If this was true, than, you wouldn't be saying anything bad about President Obama SINCE he was elected President. An that including up to 'now' and proceeding to the end of his two terms of office. Since we've noted MANY instances of you both insulting the President and slamming him on stuff; I don't think you can take the high road on this one.

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 21

RE: Herman Cain....One World Class Buffoon... - 7/17/2011 11:11:59 PM

tweakabelle

Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline

quote:

popeye1250
Then I guess most Americans are "bufoons" as well.

I'm going to need a lot more convincing on that pops. But please don't fret yourself now, with posts such as these to your credit, you'd certainly qualify as a buffoon by any standard. You can't even spell the word! Yeppers a bona fide buffoon.

quote:

popeye1250
Islam is the "religion" that attacked America on 9/11.

Really!!! How surprising! Attacked by a religion? Here was silly me thinking the US was attacked by terrorists who hijacked air planes and flew them into buildings. Do you mean all that was faked - just like Obama's birth certificate or the moon landing?

quote:

popeye1250
We need to de-certify it as a religion and call it what it is, a cult.

Just exactly how do you differentiate between a religion and a cult pops? I'd love to hear your specific suggestions if you have any (which I seriously doubt).

quote:

popeye1250
What other group approves lieing and cheating others outside their group to get their way? The Irish and Italian Mafia's come to mind.

Fox-TV? Any collection of Wall St types? The Republican Party (remember WMDs)?? Used car salesmen? The people who devise the talking points you faithfully reproduce here?

Hows about anyone who make extravagant, obviously false claims about minority groups (eg Muslims) in order to scare people into believing their BS? They'd certainly qualify wouldn't you say pops? Where does that leave you?

How could you not qualify pops?

_____________________________

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 22

RE: Herman Cain....One World Class Buffoon... - 7/18/2011 10:43:16 AM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

I am much more interested in learning about this "decertification" process.Evidence of how ignorant I happen to be,I wasn't even aware that we were certifying religions.
Of course Pops just might be referring to something or other having to do with their tax exempt status.....perhaps he views it as some off shoot of our foreign aid policies...we all know how excited pops can get over that shit.All pops wants is for the eviiiil mooslims to pay their taxes so as not to receive furrin aid.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to tweakabelle)

Post #: 23

RE: Herman Cain....One World Class Buffoon... - 7/18/2011 12:52:24 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

Tweak, would you want a Ku Klux Klan or Neo-Nazi clubhouse in your neighborhood? I wouldn't!
It's like someone who owns a pit bull and three years later it tears someone's leg off, they say; "It was such a nice and quiet dog who never did anything like this. (before)
Try and build a Christian Church or Jewish Temple in any muslim country and see what happens to you. They don't allow them!
Hell, just try and take a bible into a muslim country, they'll seize it from you and burn it as "unclean."
Just who is it that's closed minded?

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to tweakabelle)

Post #: 24

RE: Herman Cain....One World Class Buffoon... - 7/18/2011 12:54:28 PM

Moonhead

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Try and build a Christian Church or Jewish Temple in any muslim country and see what happens to you. They don't allow them!
Hell, just try and take a bible into a muslim country, they'll seize it from you and burn it as "unclean."

Got any cites for either of these?
Or even a specific example of a "muslim country" you can name?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 25

RE: Herman Cain....One World Class Buffoon... - 7/18/2011 1:08:35 PM

joether

Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Tweak, would you want a Ku Klux Klan or Neo-Nazi clubhouse in your neighborhood? I wouldn't!
It's like someone who owns a pit bull and three years later it tears someone's leg off, they say; "It was such a nice and quiet dog who never did anything like this. (before)
Try and build a Christian Church or Jewish Temple in any muslim country and see what happens to you. They don't allow them!
Hell, just try and take a bible into a muslim country, they'll seize it from you and burn it as "unclean."
Just who is it that's closed minded?

Isn't it cute that he tries to hide his hatred and ignorance?

Pops, if the KKK or NN's wanted to buy a house in the neighborhood, that's their business. Last I checked, if we start putting restrictions on where one can live due strictly to their religious and/or political beliefs....wouldnt that run counter to the typical conservative mantra of 'no goverment in our lives'? Not to mention a clear violation of the US Constitution?

Oh, I get it, its 'ok', if we violate the US Constitution as long as it advances the conservative agenda, right?

Likewise, I'm under no law or obligations to bake 'em a cake and welcome 'em to the neighborhood. I dont have to associate with them either. Funny, you seem to think that if someone joins your neighborhood you instantly have to invite them to 'Thursday Night Poker Games' at your house?

What other countries do with religions is their business pops. Your arguement is a silly child's excuse "If all the other countries jump off a cliff, so does the United States!" Notice there are muslims that come to this country BECAUSE they like the idea of people learning to live with one another and FREE of the theocracy that does little to advance humanity?

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 26

RE: Herman Cain....One World Class Buffoon... - 7/18/2011 1:10:56 PM

Moonhead

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
Notice there are muslims that come to this country BECAUSE they like the idea of people learning to live with one another and FREE of the theocracy that does little to advance humanity?

Of course3 he doesn't notice that: the only Muslims he's ever noticed in America knocked over a couple of ugly buildings in New York...

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to joether)

Post #: 27

RE: Herman Cain....One World Class Buffoon... - 7/18/2011 11:58:57 PM

tweakabelle

Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Tweak, would you want a Ku Klux Klan or Neo-Nazi clubhouse in your neighborhood? I wouldn't!
It's like someone who owns a pit bull and three years later it tears someone's leg off, they say; "It was such a nice and quiet dog who never did anything like this. (before)
Try and build a Christian Church or Jewish Temple in any muslim country and see what happens to you. They don't allow them!
Hell, just try and take a bible into a muslim country, they'll seize it from you and burn it as "unclean."
Just who is it that's closed minded?

I'd say the person who wrote your post is the one being closed minded.

The deranged lunatics who did 9/11 are as typical of Muslims as Timothy McVeigh is of Americans.
The deranged lunatics who did 9/11 are as typical of Muslims as the deranged lunatics who bomb abortion clinics and murder abortion doctors are of Christians.

To imply or argue that all Muslims are of the same mind set as the 9/11 nut cases is blatantly Islamophobic and just plain ignorant. These facts have been made clear to you many times, yet you continue to ignore them because it doesn't suit your agenda of hate and intolerance.

The problem is fundamentalism. Whether that's the AQ variety or the Zionist colonist/settler on the West Bank variety or the Westboro Baptist variety doesn't make a lot of difference.

I couldn't care less which religion sets up in my neighbourhood. As long as they respect my space and my rights, I'll respect theirs.

_____________________________

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 28

RE: Herman Cain....One World Class Buffoon... - 7/19/2011 4:21:33 AM

SilverMark

Posts: 3457
Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline

Oh please popeye, your paranoia is showing!

Freedom for one church freedom for ALL CHURCHES,

It's America, you bigot!

_____________________________

If you have sex with a siamese twin, is it considered a threesome?

The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along.
- Arnold H. Glasow

It may be your sole purpose in life to simply serve as a warning to others!

(in reply to tweakabelle)

Post #: 29

RE: Herman Cain....One World Class Buffoon... - 7/19/2011 4:38:30 AM

Moonhead

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
The problem is fundamentalism.

Actually, in the cases you cite the problem is fuckwits using fundamentalism as an excuse.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to tweakabelle)

Post #: 30

RE: Herman Cain....One World Class Buffoon... - 7/19/2011 6:11:44 AM

Aylee

Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Try and build a Christian Church or Jewish Temple in any muslim country and see what happens to you. They don't allow them!
Hell, just try and take a bible into a muslim country, they'll seize it from you and burn it as "unclean."

Got any cites for either of these?
Or even a specific example of a "muslim country" you can name?

KSA

Kingdom of Saudi Arabia

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 31

RE: Herman Cain....One World Class Buffoon... - 7/19/2011 6:28:19 AM

Aylee

Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

Oh please popeye, your paranoia is showing!

Freedom for one church freedom for ALL CHURCHES,

It's America, you bigot!

Mark, this is the part that is getting me.

Mr. Cain is correct in saying that the 1st Amendment allows a community to ban a religious building. The 1st Amendment just says that the federal government is NOT allowed to establish a religion. Add in the 14th Amendment and the states are not allowed to establish a religion either.

Mr. Cain is an idiot talking about 'Separation of Church and State.' That is phrasing from the supreme court. So is 'Benevolent Neutrality," by the way.

As long as it passes the three prong test it is not a church/state issue.

Anyway, the banning of building a religious building would fall under the building permit laws and zoning laws. Which are local laws. I have a feeling that much like buying/selling a house or apartment, there are rules that say something to the effect of 'does not discriminate on the basis of sex, race, color, religion, or creed,' in it.

Of course, trying to change the building permit and zoning laws to ban mosques would NEVER make it through the court system as acceptable.

But, this is not an establishment clause issue.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to SilverMark)

Post #: 32

RE: Herman Cain....One World Class Buffoon... - 7/19/2011 6:51:27 AM

Anaxagoras

Posts: 3086
Joined: 5/9/2009
From: Eire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
Anyway, the banning of building a religious building would fall under the building permit laws and zoning laws. Which are local laws. I have a feeling that much like buying/selling a house or apartment, there are rules that say something to the effect of 'does not discriminate on the basis of sex, race, color, religion, or creed,' in it.

Of course, trying to change the building permit and zoning laws to ban mosques would NEVER make it through the court system as acceptable.

I would assume so. I got the impression from the Fox interview that his concern was with terrorism. Thats a legitimate concern as there are mosques associated with Wahhabism that seem to foster extremism, and if the founders of a prospective mosque have dubious connections then there would be a legitimate concern but objecting to a mosque simply for its religious association with Islam is going a bit far.

(in reply to Aylee)

Post #: 33

RE: Herman Cain....One World Class Buffoon... - 7/19/2011 6:51:43 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

"Mr. Cain is correct in saying that the 1st Amendment allows a community to ban a religious building."

That`s a pretty dumb thing to say.....or to think.You may be in Cain`s target audience.He`s shooting low.

Nowhere in our Constitution does it say that,imply that nor has that ever been an interpretation.

This is the exasperating thing with buffoons rewriting our Constitution.They attract other buffoons.

To the non-buffoons...the laws protecting our religious rights trump most other laws that might restrict those rights,even zoning laws,at every level.Here in Jersey some years ago,a mega-church from Montclair wanted to develop a property that was environmentally sensitive in Rockaway and move there.

The town didn`t want it nor did most of the residents.The extra traffic on the nearby roads would have gone up several times and caused problems.They were talking about thousands of new people coming in and the impacts.The land was on a watershed area which also limited what could be built and how big.The town also had a very high church(non-taxable property)to residence/commercial(taxable property) ratio.They couldn`t afford another church.

But because of laws protecting religion,those local concerns and zoning rules were over-ridden.No other entity would get that kind of special treatment if it wasn`t a religious one.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 7/19/2011 6:56:18 AM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Aylee)

Post #: 34

RE: Herman Cain....One World Class Buffoon... - 7/19/2011 6:59:49 AM

Aylee

Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

"Mr. Cain is correct in saying that the 1st Amendment allows a community to ban a religious building."

That`s a pretty dumb thing to say.....or to think.You may be in Cain`s target audience.He`s shooting low.

Nowhere in our Constitution does it say that,imply that nor has that ever been an interpretation.

This is the exasperating thing with buffoons rewriting our Constitution.They attract other buffoons.

To the non-buffoons...the laws protecting our religious rights trump most other laws that might restrict those rights,even zoning laws,at every level.Here in Jersey some years ago,a mega-church from Montclair wanted to develop a property that was environmentally sensitive in Rockaway and move there.

The town didn`t want it nor did most of the residents.The extra traffic on the nearby roads would have gone up several times and caused problems.They were talking about thousands of new people coming in and the impacts.The land was on a watershed area which also limited what could be built and how big.

But because of laws protecting religion,those local concerns and zoning rules were over-ridden.No other entity would get that kind of special treatment if it wasn`t a religious one.

Owner, a community banning a religious building does NOT equal the establishment of a state religion.

The establishment clause has nothing to do with building permits and zoning laws.

Much like the law that says my dogs have to have rabies vaccinations does not prevent me from running red lights. Because there are different laws dealing with that.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 35

RE: Herman Cain....One World Class Buffoon... - 7/19/2011 7:07:19 AM

Moonhead

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Try and build a Christian Church or Jewish Temple in any muslim country and see what happens to you. They don't allow them!
Hell, just try and take a bible into a muslim country, they'll seize it from you and burn it as "unclean."

Got any cites for either of these?
Or even a specific example of a "muslim country" you can name?

KSA

Kingdom of Saudi Arabia

And people have had bibles confiscated and burned in Saudi Arabia when?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Aylee)

Post #: 36

RE: Herman Cain....One World Class Buffoon... - 7/19/2011 7:15:57 AM

Anaxagoras

Posts: 3086
Joined: 5/9/2009
From: Eire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Try and build a Christian Church or Jewish Temple in any muslim country and see what happens to you. They don't allow them!
Hell, just try and take a bible into a muslim country, they'll seize it from you and burn it as "unclean."

Got any cites for either of these?
Or even a specific example of a "muslim country" you can name?

KSA

Kingdom of Saudi Arabia

And people have had bibles confiscated and burned in Saudi Arabia when?

If Aylee don't object to me answering: http://plancksconstant.org/blog1/2010/09/muslims_burn_bibles_routinely_and_often.html

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 37

RE: Herman Cain....One World Class Buffoon... - 7/19/2011 7:18:31 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

Though there are those who would like to drag us down to the level of the Saudis (and other despotic backward societies),we are NOT the Saudis.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 38

RE: Herman Cain....One World Class Buffoon... - 7/19/2011 7:21:47 AM

joether

Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
Anyway, the banning of building a religious building would fall under the building permit laws and zoning laws. Which are local laws. I have a feeling that much like buying/selling a house or apartment, there are rules that say something to the effect of 'does not discriminate on the basis of sex, race, color, religion, or creed,' in it.

Of course, trying to change the building permit and zoning laws to ban mosques would NEVER make it through the court system as acceptable.

I would assume so. I got the impression from the Fox interview that his concern was with terrorism. Thats a legitimate concern as there are mosques associated with Wahhabism that seem to foster extremism, and if the founders of a prospective mosque have dubious connections then there would be a legitimate concern but objecting to a mosque simply for its religious association with Islam is going a bit far.

If Mr. Cain was as serious as he claims on terrorism. Then explain why he isn't as strong attacking white, middle class, folks that once served in the US Military? Since that *IS* the discription that could be attached (among other things) to Mr. Timothy McVeigh. Last I checked, he was accused of of the Oklahoma City Bombing back on April 15, 1995 (and found....GUILTY). And you know why he doesnt do that? Because he would never get nominated for the GOP ticket.

BTW,

"...banning of building a religious building would fall under the building permit laws and zoning laws."

...has '1st Amendment challenge' written all over it. If this was true, religious warfare would be the norm in this country, not the extreme practice (as every group fights for every inch of property). Folks from one religion would lash out at a community that was opposed to them for nothing more than the religious viewpoint of the first group. After all, we allow Mormons and Scientologists to have churchs in this country. If what you say is true, than those two groups would NEVER be able to have the properties they have today (not to mention muslims, buddists, taoists, or any non-Christian religions/philosophies).

(in reply to Anaxagoras)

Post #: 39

RE: Herman Cain....One World Class Buffoon... - 7/19/2011 7:28:03 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

Oh please popeye, your paranoia is showing!

Freedom for one church freedom for ALL CHURCHES,

It's America, you bigot!

Mark, this is the part that is getting me.

Mr. Cain is correct in saying that the 1st Amendment allows a community to ban a religious building. The 1st Amendment just says that the federal government is NOT allowed to establish a religion. Add in the 14th Amendment and the states are not allowed to establish a religion either.

Mr. Cain is an idiot talking about 'Separation of Church and State.' That is phrasing from the supreme court. So is 'Benevolent Neutrality," by the way.

As long as it passes the three prong test it is not a church/state issue.

Anyway, the banning of building a religious building would fall under the building permit laws and zoning laws. Which are local laws. I have a feeling that much like buying/selling a house or apartment, there are rules that say something to the effect of 'does not discriminate on the basis of sex, race, color, religion, or creed,' in it.

Of course, trying to change the building permit and zoning laws to ban mosques would NEVER make it through the court system as acceptable.

But, this is not an establishment clause issue.

Banning the building of a specific building at a specific place for purely secular reasons is ok. Banning all buildings of one religion, which is what Cain wants, is an unconstitutional endorsement of religion and is not allowed.

(in reply to Aylee)

Post #: 40

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