Discrimination, much? (Full Version)

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GreedyTop -> Discrimination, much? (6/24/2011 5:05:15 AM)

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/06/23/2281924/air-passenger-dressed-in-womens.html




flcouple2009 -> RE: Discrimination, much? (6/24/2011 5:42:22 AM)

What a fucking idiot.  Be an attention whore somewhere else. 

There is a time and place for everything. Parading around the flight where families and children are trapped  with your bad behavior is ridiculous.

So a 20 year old gets tossed off a plane because the flight crew decide they can see too much of his boxers.  Yet this "Rocky Horror Picture Show" wanna be struts his junk all over the airport and plane and the answer is "nothing we can do".






GreedyTop -> RE: Discrimination, much? (6/24/2011 5:48:32 AM)

yep

ETA: to clarify

while I have no issue with the dude flying semi nekkid, I just find it absurd that the airline would deny a MOSTLY dressed (ok, fully... but who the hell wants to see someones undies unless theyre about to have sex??) passenger, and allow the mostly UNDRESSED passenger.  Sadly, I see racial profiling combined with overly PC crap going on./

of course, that may just be me.




kalikshama -> RE: Discrimination, much? (6/24/2011 6:03:01 AM)

I support consenting adults doing whatever they chose in PRIVATE!

Administer standards fairly, dammit.

Not kicked off plane:
[image]http://media.miamiherald.com/smedia/2011/06/23/20/42/tPLy4.Em.56.jpg[/image]

Kicked off plane:
[image]http://newsone.com/files/2011/06/Deshon-Marman.jpg[/image]




OttersSwim -> RE: Discrimination, much? (6/24/2011 6:16:39 AM)

You know, I just wish he wouldn't.

This sort of "in your face" gender expression simply perpetrates the stereotype of sensationalism that surround people's impressions of those of us who are other gendered.  Gender expression is just fine as long as it is in a sideshow or used for shock value...

I have flown en'femme - dressed in age appropriate clothing and fully covered.  It was delightful.  People were polite and kind.




ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Discrimination, much? (6/24/2011 6:31:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

You know, I just wish he wouldn't.

This sort of "in your face" gender expression simply perpetrates the stereotype of sensationalism that surround people's impressions of those of us who are other gendered.  Gender expression is just fine as long as it is in a sideshow or used for shock value...

I have flown en'femme - dressed in age appropriate clothing and fully covered.  It was delightful.  People were polite and kind.



Otter, you said it better than I could have, so ty.




barelynangel -> RE: Discrimination, much? (6/24/2011 6:37:18 AM)

You know, i have no sympathy for the kid who was kicked off.  All he had to do was pull up his pants.  He decided not to and try and still fly.  The airlines don't NEED to allow anyone on their flights.  The kid from what i understand was being beligerant and such when asked to pull up his pants.   The kid should have pulled up his pants or left the flight if he didn't want too.  And handled it differently and he wouldn't have gotten arrested. 

Be careful of thinking he was kicked off the plane because of his pants. He wasn't -- they asked him to pull them up and would have allowed him on the plane.  It was his reaction and refusal that got him kicked off the plane.

I am not saying this idiot should have been allowed to fly, he shouldn't have been.  This to me is more offensive to the average traveler than any thing the kid was wearing.  The thing is, if the kid had just either pulled up his pants or left the plane, he would have had this story to use against what they asked him to do.  But the thing is, he wasn't kicked off the plane for what he was wearing, he was kicked off because he refused to do as the airline asked.

The fact of the matter is this man wasn't asked to change.  If he was and didn't, i am sure he would have had the same consequences of being kicked off the flight.

Was it discrimination?  I don't think so.  I think it was just stupidity on every part -- the airline in both situations, and the kid for his reaction and this guy for being a attention whore.

Again, i am not condoning the dishing out of the rules differently, but in this day and age, if the airlines ask you do to something, do it or leave the plane.  Deal with the issue another way.  When you don't, i don't have any sympathy for your arrest or negative consequences.

I am curious if this guy would have changed if he was asked too.  To me, you can't really compare these situations because this guy wasn't asked to change and the kid got arrested for his negative reaction to being asked to pull up his pants.


angel





DomImus -> RE: Discrimination, much? (6/24/2011 7:10:24 AM)

I'm curious as to why the kid with the boxers was asked to pull them up. Yes, it looks stupid as hell but is it somehow a security risk? The story didn't expand on that. They did mention that the lingerie dude does cover up when asked, whatever that means. I think they're both pretty fucked up if you ask me.  




barelynangel -> RE: Discrimination, much? (6/24/2011 7:54:05 AM)

If I remember correctly they asked him to pull them up because it said it was so low his genitals were almost showing. He refused and argued withthe crew and the captain asked police to arrest him. He remained uncooperative and resisted arrest thereafter.

It was stupid if they allow this guy but in the end he wasn't kicked off for his clothes he was kicked off for his response.

To me. That is the very significant differences. The kid should have handle it differently. Again I am not advocating this guy being allowed on. But in the end the call is the airlines. Don't like it. Don't use that airline.

Angel




flcouple2009 -> RE: Discrimination, much? (6/24/2011 8:04:29 AM)

The difference is the Captain had a bug up his ass over the "thug".

This one should have been told, "oh but hell no" before even getting pass the gate.




Aneirin -> RE: Discrimination, much? (6/24/2011 8:31:01 AM)

I wonder if a poll was taken of people, what would be the majority result if the question was put how should someone dress in the public arena, at a guess I would suspect most people wouldn't be bothered what someone wore, but if pointed questions were asked regarding what people didn't want to see, then I suspect most would prefer it if people in the public arena dressed conservatively, i.e. covered.

Now, I have lived in the middle east and whilst I was there, I was educated to what is expected in the public arena and what is not and to be fair, I do agree with it, so I complied when out in public, so as not to cause offence, and I did not get scorched by the sun. Now I have seen Brits there that have ignored the ettiquette and wore '' in the sun clothes'', usually vest and shorts but I have also watched the police take an interest in them, so, is it worth the hassle in the end. But to be perfectly honest, how would one like it, if they were presented with a sweaty arm pit or seeing up someone's shorts in a resturaunt, why provide the distraction to be liked or disliked and in the latter case possible admonishment for the direction your eye naturally takes when presented with the image in the wrong enviroment.

I do believe in dress standards and I also believe in individuality, but which should reign I believe is always down to a compromise between the two and in that, people should care about their affect on others, not think''' fuck em, I shall do as I please'', as all that engenders, is selfishness and possibilities of malcontent.

Now, as to the OP, if the airline had a dress code, then travellers who choose to use that airline should comply with the requirements for flying, although I have yet to hear if such a thing exists with any travel company in the western world. So, if no rules are posted, then the chap had every right to display his individuality upto a point where it does not offend others. Now if the airline staff had received complaints about this person's attire, then perhaps then to ensure harmony of the majority, the person concerned should have been informed of the complaints and there complied for the comfort of the majority, but if one person took offence where others did not, then that is upto him to either ignore or do something about it to cure his offence, but the person should not be hiding behind his uniform to enforce his personal beliefs, as that invites possible trouble for his employer, as in this case public exposure in a way which could be damaging to the company.

As to the other pillock in his demonstration, all I can say, is what a cock, as he risks causing more damage to people's individuality by being so stupid and flaunting in people's faces.

Clothing, there are the correct times and the correct places, idiots who push the envelope risk arsing it up for everyone if idiotic actions lead to dress codes being posted and when dress codes are posted, they run the risk of being an infringement on personal liberties if the requirement carries authoritarial actions.




SubSlutTea -> RE: Discrimination, much? (6/24/2011 8:54:53 AM)

I don't see anything wrong with a guy wearing female clothing on a plane... he's covered.. sorta, but not in a 'lewd' way. He's not harming anyone else, nor is he being disrespectful, he's simply doing something that he enjoys. If he was asked to cover up, he does. As for the other guy, really? If they're gonna cause that much of a fuss over underwear, they should've had a FIT over this guy. That's underwear, and his genitals are pretty easily outlined. Now, what the difference is is really up for debate. Racial profiling, the way they act, who knows. But, the point is, as with most things, if there's a rule, it's a rule. Everyone should be subjected to it. In the article I read from that football player, the rule was "no indecent exposure which included underwear". Now, maybe it was a different airline, but if that's the rule, Howard shouldn't be allowed to wear lingerie. Now, yeah, I agree the football player should've sucked it up and pulled his pants up, big deal. But when I fly, I see TONS of kids with their pants far too low for anyone's pleasure and no one mentions a thing. So, I guess it depends on which person has had a bad day and feels like making someone else's horrible. But, either way, I think that people should be allowed to wear what they want as long as they're not butt naked, or causing serious harm to someone else, which neither of these people are/were doing.




thishereboi -> RE: Discrimination, much? (6/24/2011 10:33:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

What a fucking idiot.  Be an attention whore somewhere else. 

There is a time and place for everything. Parading around the flight where families and children are trapped  with your bad behavior is ridiculous.

So a 20 year old gets tossed off a plane because the flight crew decide they can see too much of his boxers.  Yet this "Rocky Horror Picture Show" wanna be struts his junk all over the airport and plane and the answer is "nothing we can do".





The 20 year old was asked to change and he didn't. According to the article, when Howard is asked to cover up he does it. See the difference. Now I am not sure why they didn't ask him to cover up in this case, but apparently they didn't. If I had been in charge, I know I would have for the very reasons you stated in paragraph 2.






needlesandpins -> RE: Discrimination, much? (6/24/2011 10:52:12 AM)

if i saw a woman dressed like he is going to get on a plane i'd think she just looks cheap and nasty in a bad way. i think the same of him. in fact, whilst i'd have no problem with it in the right setting, i'd say he's worse. everything is on show and i wouldn't want that paraded in my face if i were on my own, let alone if i had kids with me. there is a time and a place for everything and that is just not on. i dread to think what he looked like from the back.

the last time i was at the LAM i saw a guy very much like this one, dressed in almost the same things, just pink. all kudos to the guy, get your kink on and you're in the right place for it. however, what did make me feel awkward was that the venue was a hotel and while the room was private the rest was not. to get outside to smoke, or to use the loos we had to go out through the general public. this guy passed myself and a mother with her, about 8yr old, daughter. there was nothing left to the imagination and it's really not something you want your kids seeing. if he'd just been dressed as a female then cool, but in just panties that showed everything....it's just not on. given it wasn't his fault that we had to go out of the room to use facilities, but he could have covered up somewhat knowing that.

this guy also shouldn't have needed telling to cover up, he should have more about him. as he clearly lacks that then he most definately should have been asked to cover up.

needles




CalifChick -> RE: Discrimination, much? (6/24/2011 10:52:49 AM)

Apparently numerous people in the gate area complained to airline staff, but staff refused to do anything since he was covered.

When I first saw reports on this a couple of days ago, I wrote a complaint to the airline that "covered up" does not cover all situations and they should drop the political correctness and take a stand and say "we are a family-friendly airline, and this is not okay".

Now I didn't say it in my complaint, but if they think his attire is okay, then perhaps they should have all of their flight attendants, male and female, dress that way. [:)]

There are dozens and dozens of places where the scantily-clad of either gender would be asked to leave and come back when they were "appropriately" attired - restaurants, banks, stores, etc. I don't think we have to get into a huge discussion about the definition of "appropriate"... although I can see it coming.

Cali




LadyConstanze -> RE: Discrimination, much? (6/24/2011 10:53:31 AM)

Bah, seriously, with the horrors you see at airports on a regular basis, both those guys wouldn't shock me.

A guy being asked to pull up his pants and making a big fuss in an airport or on a plane is just a freaking idiot, sorry, but that's about as smart as starting to argue with custom officers, great way to miss your flight... If he's too good to pull up his pants because he's a football player and needs to act all macho, he might consider driving instead of flying.

I couldn't care less if a guy is wearing panties, bra and stockings in an airport, if kids ask what is going on, the parents can always explain that he's most likely going to a fancy dress party, big deal. I mean why is it not OK for the guy to wear that but a seriously obese woman can wear a mini skirt, a tank top and let all hang out and that's appropriate? Or how about those tourists in shorts with wife beater vests that don't have enough material to cover their flabby bellies? If they are appropriate then a guy in lingerie is also appropriate, especially if he covers up when being asked to.




LadyHibiscus -> RE: Discrimination, much? (6/24/2011 10:58:50 AM)

I had no idea that airlines had a dress code. Because I was not raised by wolves!! I would not get on an aircraft in a bikini, because it's not appropriate! Criminy.




CalifChick -> RE: Discrimination, much? (6/24/2011 11:18:21 AM)

From a longer story on this:

quote:

He says he works as a business consultant and rarely has issues with other passengers or the airlines about his clothing fetish.

"It has never been my intent to put people in a situation where they feel uncomfortable," he told the paper. "I try to respect other people's opinions. As long as my dress is not indecent from a legal perspective, and so long as the airline does not object, I have the right to wear what I wear."


1, I would never hire him as a consultant unless my business was "how to be inappropriate". They say even bad press is still press, but I say bullshit.

2, I think he's lying... I think it is exactly his intent to make other people uncomfortable.

Cali




LadyConstanze -> RE: Discrimination, much? (6/24/2011 11:37:53 AM)

Look, I wouldn't hire him, I wouldn't board a plane in a bikini (I'm not 20 anymore, heaven knows I'd like to be but alas I am not) but you know there are so many people who are dressed inappropriately at airports, why get upset about a guy in stockings?
I'm all for telling him to dress up and cover up, but please d tell it the other people too who are wearing far too little clothes for far too much body mass.




CalifChick -> RE: Discrimination, much? (6/24/2011 11:45:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

Look, I wouldn't hire him, I wouldn't board a plane in a bikini (I'm not 20 anymore, heaven knows I'd like to be but alas I am not) but you know there are so many people who are dressed inappropriately at airports, why get upset about a guy in stockings?
I'm all for telling him to dress up and cover up, but please d tell it the other people too who are wearing far too little clothes for far too much body mass.


I have and I do. A lady was wearing white thong underwear and a lace swimsuit coverup and nothing else except her shoes and a smile. I told her she may not be aware, but her dress was quite see-through and not really appropriate outside of a nude beach. She said "it's fine", so I reported her to the gate agent who did nothing, so I went to a supervisor and complained. Miraculously, the lady found other clothes in her carry-on to put on.

Yeah, I'm one of THOSE people.

Cali




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