Honesty without outing (Full Version)

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Kalista07 -> Honesty without outing (6/22/2011 6:14:40 PM)

I'm looking for suggestions on wording here.  I'm apparently going forward with the divorce, through my employee assistance provider I am entitled to a free session with an attorney.....and then he will provide services with me at a much discounted rate.

So, I'm looking for suggestions on how to word the situation without outing the man I am currently legally married to or his slave. I have made the decision that I will protect their anonymity at all cost.  I have already been accused of outing them once, and despite the fact that those allegations were proven not true I  lost a great deal in that.......

I'm just looking for suggestions. The grounds I'm planning on asking the attorney to seek the divorce on is 'irreconcilable differences".

Thanks,
Kali



LadyPact -> RE: Honesty without outing (6/22/2011 6:23:02 PM)

I don't even know if I'd consider that "outing".  In a situation like that, I would have to think you'd have attorney/client privilege anyway.  I know you said it was just a consultation, but if you retain this person as your lawyer, that means that anything that you say should be held in confidence.



LafayetteLady -> RE: Honesty without outing (6/22/2011 6:29:51 PM)

For most states, "irreconcilable differences" requires a small waiting period before filing.  In NJ, if memory serves, it is either 3 or 6 months.  There is also an 18 month separation and then no reason is needed at all.

This attorney you are visiting will be able to tell you the rules for your state.  Also, many states are starting to use something called "collabrative divorce."  That is good especially for partners who are in agreement over most of the major issues and can work well with a mediator on the minor ones.  I'm not terribly familiar with the details of your situation, other than she came in as a slave and they decided you were no longer necessary.

If you can speak civilly with your soon to be ex, tell him that you would like to file as irreconcilable differences and this way everyone's protected from "outing."  He should have no trouble agreeing.  The attorney can draw up the filing, and then you can wait the necessary time to file.  The Property Settlement Agreement is where most couple end up really arguing.  That is the portion of the divorce that (obviously) divides marital property.  I realize you have been horribly hurt by this whole situation, and I do understand you might feel the need to just give him everything and get out.  Please do NOT do this.  You put into the marriage, and an equitable distribution is only reasonable. 

Prior to my becoming disabled, I was a Family Law Paralegal for twenty years.  Equitable distribution will help you have the necessary financial means to start over.  I've known a great number of women who just walked away with nothing.  Yes, many of them boasted how they got back on their feet all on their own, but you know what?  This ain't no contest to see who can struggle the most.  I have mediated and negotiated a lot of divorces.  I never recommend anyone try and take their spouse for everything they can, only that each take their fair share of the marital pie.

I don't know if you have children, but if you do, make sure the child support is calculated appropriately, including medical insurance.  Sadly, many states will not permit him to continue to carry you on his medical insurance, but until the divorce, most states do not permit him from removing you either.

I applaud you for wanting to not drag him and this woman through the mud.  Not only would you get awfully muddy as well, but in the end, it really won't change the outcome.  I wish you luck, and if you have any questions, feel free to drop me a line on the other side.



LafayetteLady -> RE: Honesty without outing (6/22/2011 6:37:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I don't even know if I'd consider that "outing".  In a situation like that, I would have to think you'd have attorney/client privilege anyway.  I know you said it was just a consultation, but if you retain this person as your lawyer, that means that anything that you say should be held in confidence.


I wasn't thinking about this part, but LP is quite correct.  Many people will "consult" with all the best attorneys in their area to prevent their spouse from using any of those attorneys since it creates a conflict of interest.

You can tell this attorney anything you want, the whole story, part of it or none of it.  If you are going for irreconcilable differences, it isn't really necessary to tell the attorney anything more than the two of you simply "grew apart."  However, telling the attorney everything could be helpful if your ex wants to fight you over anything.  It will allow the attorney to know what is really going on should the ex not be agreeable and brings up anything.  The attorney is bound ethically to follow your instructions as long as you don't want to do anything illegal.  If the ex brings anything up, the last thing you want is this attorney being blindsided by a cross complaint detailing your life together.



windchymes -> RE: Honesty without outing (6/22/2011 6:41:34 PM)

Of course, the laws are different in every state, but you don't have to spill your guts about the situation to an attorney if you don't want to. Keep it short and simple, "he has someone else, we've decided to divorce, and I just want to get it over with." I don't see any reason the M/s should enter into it. If it does, somehow, just say something vague like, "We participated in some mutually consensual adult actitivies, yes." As you said, just cite "irreconcilible differences" if you have to give grounds.

If you live in a state that allows "dissolution" as an option rather than divorce, I'd advise taking that. That means, you agree on everything before it goes to court, everything divided up, papers signed and filed, you just show up for the hearing, judge says, "are you sure?", you say "yep" and he stamps the papers. Over and done with in 15 minutes. But you have to agree on EVERYTHING before it goes to court. The hearing is just a formality.

I know it's painful right now, but the quicker you get it over with without drama, the easier it is to start moving on with your life.

Another piece of advice I offer is to not worry so much about protecting THEM. They have each other and will survive. YOU need to worry about YOURSELF. To hell with them. [:)]



angelikaJ -> RE: Honesty without outing (6/22/2011 6:45:31 PM)

Whatever you tell the attorney is between you and him.

However, the simple truth without getting into BDSM stuff is that he is involved with someone else. If your husband then claims that you gave consent for the relationship then he is the one opening that particular door.

(As for poly, while you gave permission for a sister-slave you did not give permission for her to take over his attentions.)



So, reason for divorce: he is involved with someone else. He could have made another choice once you let him know you were unhappy and he didn't.



Kalista07 -> RE: Honesty without outing (6/22/2011 10:45:56 PM)

Thanks everyone for your suggestions......... Despite everything he's done to me I don't want to hurt him and I don't want to be vindictive. 

But I honestly don't know where the line is between me being "nice" and "not vindictive" and allowing them to "run the hell over me".


Kali



DarkSteven -> RE: Honesty without outing (6/23/2011 5:02:40 AM)

This is exactly why you have an attorney in the first place.  Tell him everything, and let him tell you what options you have and their ramifications.  He knows how to present them and how effective they would be.

"Outing" them in what way?  M/s or the fact that he was poly?





Kana -> RE: Honesty without outing (6/23/2011 6:48:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

This is exactly why you have an attorney in the first place.  Tell him everything, and let him tell you what options you have and their ramifications.  He knows how to present them and how effective they would be.



This. An attorney is basically a hired dick, retained to protect the client and the clients interests "zealously to the hilt of the law."
Find a shark. Tell em everything. Then listen and do.
Grins.
Kinda consider the attorney your divorce dom and as long as you've done your background research and picked a good lawyer you should be OK.



DesFIP -> RE: Honesty without outing (6/23/2011 6:51:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

This is exactly why you have an attorney in the first place.  Tell him everything, and let him tell you what options you have and their ramifications.  He knows how to present them and how effective they would be.



This. An attorney is basically a hired dick, retained to protect the client and the clients interests "zealously to the hilt of the law."
Find a shark. Tell em everything. Then listen and do.
Grins.
Kinda consider the attorney your divorce dom and as long as you've done your background research and picked a good lawyer you should be OK.



Agreed.

Kali your ex and his girl don't give a damn about how much you've been harmed, you need to think about yourself instead of them. As long as you're focused on protecting them instead of yourself, you're still enslaved to them. And that's wrong. It's time to move on. Let the attorney decide what needs to be done to give you a fair and equitable settlement.



NuevaVida -> RE: Honesty without outing (6/23/2011 6:56:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

Thanks everyone for your suggestions......... Despite everything he's done to me I don't want to hurt him and I don't want to be vindictive. 

But I honestly don't know where the line is between me being "nice" and "not vindictive" and allowing them to "run the hell over me".


Kali



From experience, I can only say the line leads directly to you, and what is best for you.  Place your thoughts - not on being vindictive or not being vindictive - but on what YOU need to do, to take care of YOU right now.  Seriously.

I began my divorce being all concerned about his well being and not screwing him over.  And in the end, wow, did his own vindictiveness come out and blow me over.  It was shocking and unexpected.

So, shift your focus and think of yourself.  You gotta take care of you right now.  He's gonna take care of himself, and his own.  So it's your job to look out for yourself (not him, not anybody else), and do what's right for you.



angelikaJ -> RE: Honesty without outing (6/23/2011 7:34:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

Thanks everyone for your suggestions......... Despite everything he's done to me I don't want to hurt him and I don't want to be vindictive. 

But I honestly don't know where the line is between me being "nice" and "not vindictive" and allowing them to "run the hell over me".


Kali



It is not vindictive to watch out for your needs.
It is not vindictive to be truthful (without exaggeration or malice) about what happened and how it has affected you and your life.
It is not vindictive to seek out what is fair and actually to get everything within the law that you are entitled to.

To not protect your rights is in my opinion a form of self harm Kali.
It is saying that you don't matter and that you aren't important.

I know you want to take the "high road" and that is admirable but as long as you are true to yourself and stick with the truth you are taking the high road.
It is not malicious to be self-protective.
Malice is seeking to do them harm.

Have they treated you with honesty and integrity?
She has done things to undermine you from the beginning.
There is no reason to belive that that is going to change/stop now and because of that you *do* need someone who is going to look out for your best interests.
You deserve nothing less.

Have you thought of talking to a Kink Aware Attorney?



Muttling -> RE: Honesty without outing (6/23/2011 7:39:54 AM)

Will this be a contested or non-contested divorce.   If it's non-contested then you don't have to worry about outing him at all and irreconcilable differences should be the only grounds listed and the only issue will be separation of marital assets/ debts.   If it's contested then it may get messy.



WinsomeDefiance -> RE: Honesty without outing (6/23/2011 11:11:10 AM)

You still have to live with 'you' when this is over, so I think it is good that you want to approach this so very negative situation from a positive position. Remember, though, it isn't wrong to look out for your best interests. Tell your lawyer your concerns, your wishes and the whole story so that he is equipped with the knowledge he needs to manuever around the law while serving your needs and wishes.

PS - I had this all written and ready to send but was called away to take my son to work - if this has been said, just consider it a second (Or third or fourth) opinion.

WinD



LadyConstanze -> RE: Honesty without outing (6/23/2011 12:19:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

Thanks everyone for your suggestions......... Despite everything he's done to me I don't want to hurt him and I don't want to be vindictive. 

But I honestly don't know where the line is between me being "nice" and "not vindictive" and allowing them to "run the hell over me".


Kali




Kali,

my guess is that for them you being "nice" and not vindictive" is letting them run the hell over you! Who the hell knows what they are saying about you anyway, I mean they accused of outing them and you didn't - well, I'd say you have to protect your own interests as well. Nothing wrong with being nice and civil, if both parties are, being flattened by them because you were the one being nice - I'd reconsider that. I would want to see some goodwill and trustworthy behavior from their side, before I'd risk my own neck, just saying...



Kalista07 -> RE: Honesty without outing (6/23/2011 9:12:32 PM)

Well I want to thank you all for your advice and words of wisdom......At this time I've decided that what I more than likely need to do is offer to pay him some sort of financial support.

Kali



LadyConstanze -> RE: Honesty without outing (6/24/2011 2:38:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

Well I want to thank you all for your advice and words of wisdom......At this time I've decided that what I more than likely need to do is offer to pay him some sort of financial support.

Kali




Is he not capable of working? Maybe my relationship is a bit odd, but if we'd break up, we wouldn't even dream about asking the other for financial support, we'd split up who paid for what, who keeps what and it would all be fine, then we'd talk about who gets the pets and it would be bloody murder, a bit like an ugly custody fight...



angelikaJ -> RE: Honesty without outing (6/24/2011 2:45:39 AM)

Kali,

You had to move out of your home and buy transportation.

I know there is information etc. that I just don't know but it just isn't making sense to me why you would have to pay him?



kalikshama -> RE: Honesty without outing (6/24/2011 4:40:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

At this time I've decided that what I more than likely need to do is offer to pay him some sort of financial support.

Kali

Add the above to the list of things to discuss with your lawyer.

Keep Anjelika's words in mind:

quote:

To not protect your rights is in my opinion a form of self harm Kali.



ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Honesty without outing (6/24/2011 5:02:19 AM)

Most wonderful advice:

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ



It is not vindictive to watch out for your needs.
It is not vindictive to be truthful (without exaggeration or malice) about what happened and how it has affected you and your life.
It is not vindictive to seek out what is fair and actually to get everything within the law that you are entitled to.

To not protect your rights is in my opinion a form of self harm Kali.
It is saying that you don't matter and that you aren't important.

I know you want to take the "high road" and that is admirable but as long as you are true to yourself and stick with the truth you are taking the high road.
It is not malicious to be self-protective.
Malice is seeking to do them harm.

Have they treated you with honesty and integrity?
She has done things to undermine you from the beginning.
There is no reason to belive that that is going to change/stop now and because of that you *do* need someone who is going to look out for your best interests.
You deserve nothing less.

Have you thought of talking to a Kink Aware Attorney?


Please let me reiterate: find a good attorney and tell them *everything.* Your attorney is on your side, and they will be wonderfully pragmatic in a situation that you just can't be, b/c you are too close to it. Absolutely tell them about the kink, (not to out anyone) so you don't get blind sided in court.





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