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RE: Masochism vs. service orientation - 6/16/2011 5:06:06 AM

LillyBoPeep

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dvart

For me it's domination, control and humiliation that I crave.
Pain can be instrumental in achieving that but it isn't an end in itself.
This is a very interesting topic.
Seems to me that a Sadist doesn't necessarily want to dominate and a masochist may not want to be dominated even if she calls herself a slave.
It may simply be a question of hurting and being hurt.
Or is that too obvious ?

for some that's certainly true; not all Sadists and masochists are involved in power dynamics. some people really just want the S&M.
i do enjoy domination, and maybe that's what i'm not factoring into my calculations. for me, the servicey feelings are often how i respond to feeling dominated. and the fact that "he wants to do this, so he's going to do it" turns me on, i think is a statement of desiring domination.
i don't generally get a humiliation feeling from pain, perhaps a smidge if i start crying, but not as strong of a feeling like i get from other things.

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RE: Masochism vs. service orientation - 6/16/2011 5:25:24 AM

Kana

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She is service oriented. Her pleasure comes not from the pain, but that she is doing it/taking it for/from me.

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RE: Masochism vs. service orientation - 6/16/2011 4:19:14 PM

OwnedFemaleFlesh

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I definitely get that doing it for him is hotter, rather than just doing it. When single, I rarely hurt myself for pleasure. But at the same time, I'd much rather be doing s&m things for him, than non-s&m things, such as service. Also, I find myself wanting the s&m things for my own pleasure and benefit, I feel cheated if I go too long without impact or pain play.

My way of figuring out which side of the submissive / masochistic line I or others are on, is to ask - if you had to be in a purely s&m relationship without D/s, or in a purely D/s relationship without pain, which one would it be? For me, it would be the s&m relationship. I like D/s, it does make it hotter, but the s&m is essential, and the D/s is optional. I would find a purely service or control based relationship deeply boring and unsatisfying, so I define myself as a masochist who likes to submit.

owned xxx

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RE: Masochism vs. service orientation - 6/16/2011 4:54:12 PM

LillyBoPeep

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you really should post more often; you have a wonderfully honest way of posting, without pretense, snarkiness, dramatics, or anything else but the point. i'm beginning to like you very much =)

for me, that would be a difficult decision. i have the S&M thing with my Top friend, along with casual service (cleaning) sometimes, but he isn't interested in domination, and he very clearly makes the distinction that he prefers to do straight-up mutually enjoyable things, instead of "i'm doing this because i want to do this" things. and he's a super spectacular friend who i hope to never lose, but i do still miss the D/s with "you are mine to do with as i please" overtones. but i'm a masochist, and i crave pain, and i crave someone who really WANTS to hurt me, so i don't know if i could do a D/s relationship with someone who wasn't into S&M at all. though i can't say for sure because i've never had a personal experience of being dominated by someone without S&M involved somewhere. i mean, sure, telling me to do X, Y, and Z chores isn't an S&M experience, but there's always been S&M with sex.
that's a very difficult one for me -- totally worth pondering... hmmmm.....

< Message edited by LillyBoPeep -- 6/16/2011 5:04:01 PM >

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RE: Masochism vs. service orientation - 6/16/2011 5:00:23 PM

aromanholiday

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It's more service than masochism for me, although the term "service" isn't a perfect fit for this experience--for me. I see service as more neutral than experiencing pain. The terms I use for the latter are suffering, sacrifice, making an offering, experiencing my place, and, occasionally, atonement. Yes, I have an ex-Catholic eye, but there is a religious feel to the bearing of pain that simple service, however meditative, peaceful, and pregnant with insight it sometimes can be, lacks.

The closest I get to masochism is that a little sadist inside me adores the perversity of the experience of being hurt, physically or emotionally, by someone I adore. And sometimes I have an automatic physical response to the pain, kind of a like a dog salivating at the smell of food, but I am not consciously aware of any sensations of arousal. (I only feel arousal toward pain when I think about it at times when I am not in pain.)

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RE: Masochism vs. service orientation - 6/16/2011 5:14:41 PM

hematitan

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I hesitate to label myself as a masochist because I don't feel like pain is really the draw for me. There are types of pain I enjoy, and there are things I like, such as spanking, where I feel there needs to be some pain involved in order for me to get a kick from it. But if I had to explain my kinks, I think it's more about humiliation, vulnerability, and the illusion of someone else being in control of me.

But only the illusion. I definitely don't see myself as submissive, at least in that the thought of being in an actual power exchange isn't appealing to me at all. My independence and being in control are far too important to me, but I think that's what makes the idea of being submissive appealing, and something I like exploring. But because I'm more interested in exploring that in a top/bottom dynamic, where I (mostly) have equal input on what happens and how, I would not call myself submissive.

But am I service-oriented? I'd say yes to an extent. When I'm crazy about someone, I want to do things for them. I like to please people, and I'm quick to try. For me, I don't see it as a kink thing, though, and I don't know that I see it as a submissive thing, either.

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RE: Masochism vs. service orientation - 6/17/2011 3:01:10 PM

OwnedFemaleFlesh

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep
you really should post more often; you have a wonderfully honest way of posting, without pretense, snarkiness, dramatics, or anything else but the point. i'm beginning to like you very much =)

Aww, what a nice thing to say *beams smugly*

I love your picture. You're just gorgeous, colourful, original. You are the exact shape of woman that I think is perfect *is jealous* And I'm not even looking at your boobs. Much :-P

owned xxx

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Post #: 27

RE: Masochism vs. service orientation - 6/17/2011 3:42:43 PM

heartfeltsub

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It is a combination of both for me. There is a level of pain that I enjoy and when not in a D/s relationship and the play is just topping and bottoming, I only go as far with the pain as I like and enjoy. However, that leaves me feeling dissatified because it is not meeting the need to submit. When I am in a D/s relationship, I take far more pain than I personally like or enjoy out of submission and that feeds me in a way that bottoming can not even begin to feed me. I am also a submissive who is very service oriented and I see submitting to pain greater than I like or want to experience as a service to my Dominant.

heartfelt

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RE: Masochism vs. service orientation - 6/17/2011 4:50:11 PM

kalikshama

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quote:

the fulfillment in "taking something for someone,"

Aha, this sheds some light into a dynamic I was in last fall, where he wanted this and I struggled.

I'm into other kinds of service, but not pain related. I'd rather take it for him because I have "no choice." Bondage accomplishes this mental state nicely.

I'm also unable to hurt myself during phone sex. Just doesn't work for me. Now, if he were to tell me how he'd hurt me, that I'd enjoy.

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Post #: 29

RE: Masochism vs. service orientation - 6/17/2011 5:12:58 PM

DesFIP

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Pain gives me nothing positive at all. With that said, I won't safeword from it, but I don't try to take it for him. I figure he'll stop when I'm crying in pain. Which he always does since he doesn't get off on reducing me to that state.

If he was the sort of person who got a rush from that, we wouldn't be compatible.

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RE: Masochism vs. service orientation - 6/17/2011 5:16:13 PM

LillyBoPeep

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i'm a big fan of bondage for the "no choice" aspect of it, too. i like the feeling of restraints or constriction in general, but the taking away of any options is definitely a big part of it. it's always just interesting how lots of people do lots of the same things with lots of the same techniques but with a variety of different reasons.
doing it "for someone" isn't necessarily like service like cleaning or something either -- it's part of the "this is what i want to do because i want to do it" thing, and having no choice IS part of that for me.
i think along the lines of consensual nonconsent quite a bit of the time.

i like being pushed to crying in general; it's scary for me to get there and sometimes i don't like whatever's happening right in the moment, but afterward i'm glad it all happened.

< Message edited by LillyBoPeep -- 6/17/2011 5:17:44 PM >

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RE: Masochism vs. service orientation - 6/17/2011 5:23:27 PM

DesFIP

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The Man, not being a sadist, prefers I get something positive out of play. The only thing I got out of it last night was that he was happy. We had a discussion about this in the car today and I said if it was always like that, if I never had my needs met, that wouldn't be okay. But if last night was all about him and in a couple of weeks it's all about me, I'm fine with that. You just need things to balance out overall.

Sort of like picking a movie. If I get to pick, we're going to see something at the Indie theater next town over. If he gets to pick it's an action movie. Eventually we'll both be happy.

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RE: Masochism vs. service orientation - 6/17/2011 5:23:57 PM

PetiteOralSub

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I did not think I was a masochist,
but then I lost my soul to a sadist.

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Post #: 33

RE: Masochism vs. service orientation - 6/17/2011 5:26:27 PM

LillyBoPeep

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i think you're right Des, and it's important for people to know what their needs are, in order to see that there's a balance. i mean even someone who is a straight up service sub can be unhappy because sometimes someone doesn't WANT a service sub at all.
like i don't consider myself one of the really hardcore service submissives; i get fulfillment from it, but not like some people do.
one of the misconceptions about service-oriented people is that that is their only need, and it isn't.
so it's important for people to really know what their needs are and to have a balance, however that works out for them.

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Post #: 34

RE: Masochism vs. service orientation - 6/17/2011 11:48:42 PM

foxling

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep
so for you (if you're a masochist or a person who engages in S&M), how does it stack up for you? is it more motivated by the masochism, or by seeing the activity as a fun type of service, or some combination of the two? i know that not all masochists are submissive, and not all masochists are even involved in power dynamics or have service orientations. i'm just generally interested in people's responses.

All of the above?

I often really like/get off on the physical sensations of pain. I also really like knowing that he likes hurting me, and so I get the satisfaction of making him happy. It's true though that sometimes I really don't want to, and I talk myself through enduring in order that he can get what he wants, much more service-y than masochism. I'm recently coming to see masochism as more of a bedroom thing, whereas power exchange is more ongoing and continuous, but if I'm honest all that train of thought is doing is confusing me anyway!

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RE: Masochism vs. service orientation - 6/18/2011 5:13:23 AM

lally2

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My way of figuring out which side of the submissive / masochistic line I or others are on, is to ask - if you had to be in a purely s&m relationship without D/s, or in a purely D/s relationship without pain, which one would it be?

niether.. lol.

i know its cheating to say that but i just wouldnt be fulfilled in either situation.

im not enough of a masso to need pain or inflict pain on myself or seek out casual play partners. i only start to want to submit to it when im with someone i want to submit to.

to have no pain play in a relationship would take the edge off it. knowing he can hurt me and will, creates that physical and mental connection that just every day service doesnt provide.

its the being up close and intimate with an unpredictable sadist that pings my ping.

i can serve him all day, take care of him, look after him, make his life happy and easy and relaxed and be perfectly happy with that. but i need to know that the happy, easy going guy sitting there can just as easily turn the tables right around and make me struggle.

ive always seen that as me being some sort of masso, but its only there when im in submission to some sort of sadist.

just to add, its not me submitting to pain, its me submitting to my D.

< Message edited by lally2 -- 6/18/2011 5:15:40 AM >

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RE: Masochism vs. service orientation - 6/19/2011 1:07:13 PM

txurinal

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Whenever asked why i like pain, my first answer is always "i don't like it". Yet i constantly crave it. i guess it is like an addiction, the more you get, the more you want it.

i crave bondage, the more restrictive, the more i "enjoy" it

i am definitely a service oriented submissive. i actually get off on providing service for a Dominant

So i guess i am both masochist and service slave

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 37

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