Masochism vs. service orientation (Full Version)

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LillyBoPeep -> Masochism vs. service orientation (6/15/2011 7:05:35 PM)

A while back, I posted something on Fetlife about the fulfillment in "taking something for someone," like sensation/impact/whatever play, even though i self-ID as a masochist. LuckyAlbatross wrote, as i'd often seen her write (and which i agree with) that sometimes what's more at work than masochism is a service orientation; and for some types of people, that would be a better fit than a masochist.

While i may call myself a masochist, i know that all pain doesn't instantly translate into pleasure for me (the idea that it does is a myth for many, many people) -- there are all sorts of flavors of masochism when you really start looking at it. =p a lot of times, it doesn't give me quite the rush if the pain isn't "real;" it's a scary place to go at times because part of my brain DOESN'T want to go there, and the other part REALLY wants to go there.

but i also know that i don't get the same enjoyment from casual scenes that i got during my last committed relationship, just because the power dynamic and "doing this for him" were important concepts to me.

so for you (if you're a masochist or a person who engages in S&M), how does it stack up for you? is it more motivated by the masochism, or by seeing the activity as a fun type of service, or some combination of the two? i know that not all masochists are submissive, and not all masochists are even involved in power dynamics or have service orientations. i'm just generally interested in people's responses.

(apologies if there has been a recent topic like this; i searched but found nothing recent that was along the lines i was aiming for.)

i know that there have been times i coached myself through something in order to endure it, but that the fact that i wasn't really enjoying it was enjoyable? =p sometimes i don't even really understand what's going on. haha



HisPet21 -> RE: Masochism vs. service orientation (6/15/2011 7:14:45 PM)

That's actually a really interesting discussion topic. I, personally, would have a hard time identifying as a masochist. Pain in and of itself doesn't turn me on, yet I fantasize about being spanked, whipped, etc. and I think it may be because of the distinction you are describing. It's really the submission/domination dynamic that I enjoy, so taking pain for someone or feeling my dom's dominance though pain really does it for me. What an enlightening topic...



IrishMist -> RE: Masochism vs. service orientation (6/15/2011 7:16:08 PM)

It's all about the pain for me. I don't get sexually aroused by it...What I get out of it is the knowing that I am alive and can still feel.



ParappaTheDapper -> RE: Masochism vs. service orientation (6/15/2011 7:20:25 PM)

The idea of "service submission" has never resonated with me. I can understand on an intellectual level why people enjoy it, but I'm not hardwired to experience it viscerally as an erotic urge.

I do quite enjoy doing things for people I care about to make them happy or to make their lives easier. I just don't experience this as erotic love, although it is an aspect of romantic love for me. I wonder....do you find erotic fulfillment in acts of "service submission" or is the pleasure more based on the emotional fulfillment of doing things for someone you love?

If I were to classify myself, by the way, I'd say I'm a masochist with a strong personality who is submissive to certain women in the confines of long term relationships. The service aspect, when it's there, is a combination of the submissive side of me that certain women bring out and my natural desire to be a good friend to people I care about.

This is all somewhat muddled, because it's always hard for me to accurately sketch what's going on in my brain when it comes to romance and power exchange.



catize -> RE: Masochism vs. service orientation (6/15/2011 7:27:16 PM)

To me, the line is blurry. I identify as a submissive who is also masochistic.
There is a difference between “I'm gonna beat your ass because I want to' and 'I'm gonna beat your ass (if that's all right with you)'. Although top/bottom is fun, there is a higher satisfaction for me with a D/s dynamic.



juliaoceania -> RE: Masochism vs. service orientation (6/15/2011 7:29:32 PM)

quote:

so for you (if you're a masochist or a person who engages in S&M), how does it stack up for you? is it more motivated by the masochism, or by seeing the activity as a fun type of service, or some combination of the two? i know that not all masochists are submissive, and not all masochists are even involved in power dynamics or have service orientations. i'm just generally interested in people's responses.


I do not consider submissiveness a "service orientation", so I do not know how to answer that part of it.

I am a masochist, meaning I enjoy sensual pain. I used to puzzle over these things, but anymore I do not. I only enjoy pain if the person giving it to me enjoys it to. I want it to be a mutual thing for both of us... we are serving each other and we are enjoying our sex life. This is not about submission to me.

My submission has its roots in having a man directed relationship. I define how it works with a partner. I do not have a partner presently, so I cannot define it. The term "service submissive" has no meaning in my life. I think people serve each other and their relationship, and if they do not do that in whatever ways are pleasing to them, they don't have one. I am not a particularly servile person... but one of my greatest joys is having parties and giving my friends a good time by being a good hostess, but even then, I am in control over the party, I am the one directing it, and I am not enjoying the interaction as an "inferior", but as probably a "top"... I am being generous with food and beverage and my home.

I know people get caught up in labels about things... and if people do not find me submissive enough for them, they are probably right, I'm not, and I am okay with that.

I like to bottom in the bedroom, I like to be directed outside of it for the benefit of the relationship.

If I had a partner I could be more specific about it all.



LillyBoPeep -> RE: Masochism vs. service orientation (6/15/2011 7:34:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

To me, the line is blurry. I identify as a submissive who is also masochistic.
There is a difference between “I'm gonna beat your ass because I want to' and 'I'm gonna beat your ass (if that's all right with you)'. Although top/bottom is fun, there is a higher satisfaction for me with a D/s dynamic.


that's it for me, too. =p i very much get off on the "because I want to."
i can enjoy pain for pain's sake though, so the line is also very muddy for me, too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ParappaTheDapper
I wonder....do you find erotic fulfillment in acts of "service submission" or is the pleasure more based on the emotional fulfillment of doing things for someone you love?


for me, it isn't always erotic, no, and it isn't always a product of being in love with someone. i have a casual service agreement with a Top friend of mine, to do some housecleaning and generally be a helper-outter. we're great friends but i'm not in love with him because he's married which prevents our relationship from ever growing in that direction.
however, i enjoy functioning in that capacity for someone. i feel a pretty great amount of satisfaction when i finish the dishes at his house. =p



leadership527 -> RE: Masochism vs. service orientation (6/15/2011 9:42:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ParappaTheDapper
I do quite enjoy doing things for people I care about to make them happy or to make their lives easier. I just don't experience this as erotic love, although it is an aspect of romantic love for me. I wonder....do you find erotic fulfillment in acts of "service submission" or is the pleasure more based on the emotional fulfillment of doing things for someone you love?

For Carol there's no "erotic" in it. It's just the love and the desire to please me. That love drives her to say "OK" a lot when I tell her to do shit so it seems like "submissive" is a fair enough word -- at least at the social level.



MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Masochism vs. service orientation (6/15/2011 10:32:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

...sometimes what's more at work than masochism is a service orientation



Kind of a "chicken" and "egg" thing, isn't it?  I mean... are you willing to "serve" in that way because you're a "masochist", or are you a "masochist" because you're willing to "serve" in that way?!! [:(]




HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Masochism vs. service orientation (6/15/2011 10:49:02 PM)

I'm not a masochist in any way, so to me it is entirely a service thing. I get my kick because I'm doing it for Hanners.



myotherself -> RE: Masochism vs. service orientation (6/15/2011 11:04:37 PM)

I'm a submissive masochist.

I deliberately sought a sadistic Dom because I know 'pain play' is important for me for sexual arousal. No pain means that, for me, sex becomes...meh. I'd rather be celibate than have meh sex with someone I love.

But this is where it gets a little complicated in my head. Please bear with me if it's a little disorganised. [:)]

I rarely do 'play' with others because although the pain bit is fun for a while (it hurts, but I like the buzz I get), that's where it ends. I might get as much fun out of a shopping trip or a massage, so I don't seek out casual play.

With Master it's different. He's a real pain-lover (on me, not him, lol). The pain play turns me on (as does he). But there'll come a point when I want it to end (although well within my boundaries, limits, whatever) But he's not ready to finish - he's still having fun!

That's when it tips over into the 'service' part for me. I continue to take the pain because he's enjoying it. I know he won't damage me, and I know he knows my limits. The fact that he's enjoying it actually gives me my second wind - I start to enjoy it again.

And at the end of the session, when I'm a sweaty, panting heap of pain and pleasure, I know he's on a high and I know I've made him happy. And that's an even bigger buzz!



fadedshadow -> RE: Masochism vs. service orientation (6/15/2011 11:09:19 PM)

i'm just a masochist, i don't really care to serve people personally



NuevaVida -> RE: Masochism vs. service orientation (6/15/2011 11:24:39 PM)

It's both for me.  I used to loathe pain - in fact, it pissed me off.  But over the years I grew to enjoy it. I think it's because of the power behind it, which inflicts it on me.  It's not really the pain that does it for me, it's that he's doing it, and I can feel his power behind it.

I hate it while it's happening, yet as soon as it stops, I crave more. 



HannahLynHeather -> RE: Masochism vs. service orientation (6/16/2011 1:34:24 AM)

as far as this question goes, i'm a masochist. i phrase it that way, because i'm also a sadist. i'm a complete fucking switch. 



sunshinemiss -> RE: Masochism vs. service orientation (6/16/2011 2:13:21 AM)

I'm a hot tamale.  Bite me.



Aileen1968 -> RE: Masochism vs. service orientation (6/16/2011 4:24:49 AM)

I don't view taking a punch as a service. I view doing his laundry, cooking, cleaning, etc. as service.
The sadism/masochism aspect of our relationship is directly related to our sexuality and that is never a service, just pure fun.
A punch 99% of the time will lead to fucking.
My motivation is him. There is nothing like that look in his eyes when he's hitting me.



LillyBoPeep -> RE: Masochism vs. service orientation (6/16/2011 4:42:15 AM)

it's not just the taking of the punch that i'm talking about (hooray! someone else who likes punching!), though maybe it is. it all gets very tangled up for me, so i can't ever make cut-and-dry replies. as a masochist, i enjoy the punching, and i enjoy the interaction with someone who totally wants to punch because he has the drive and the urge to do it. i guess i'm mostly saying at some point when i can no longer particularly tolerate it, the service orientation is what kicks in and takes me into the phase where i actually start spacing out and to the end; but then the masochist comes back and says "wow, that was crazy! but awesome!" after the fact?
i dunno; this may be another example of being hyperanalytical. =p who knows, who cares.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

I hate it while it's happening, yet as soon as it stops, I crave more. 



i can totally relate to this because i do sometimes get to points like this, too.



Aileen1968 -> RE: Masochism vs. service orientation (6/16/2011 4:50:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

i guess i'm mostly saying at some point when i can no longer particularly tolerate it, the service orientation is what kicks in and takes me into the phase where i actually start spacing out and to the end; but then the masochist comes back and says "wow, that was crazy! but awesome!" after the fact?
i dunno; this may be another example of being hyperanalytical. =p who knows, who cares.



It's not service taking over for me. It's because I don't have a choice to stop it.
Literally. No safe words. It stops when he feels like stopping.
I suppose thinking about his laundry at those times would possibly be helpful in getting my screaming brain distracted from what I was physically feeling?
That's as close to service as I could come to. [:)]



dvart -> RE: Masochism vs. service orientation (6/16/2011 4:57:17 AM)

For me it's domination, control and humiliation that I crave.
Pain can be instrumental in achieving that but it isn't an end in itself.
This is a very interesting topic.
Seems to me that a Sadist doesn't necessarily want to dominate and a masochist may not want to be dominated even if she calls herself a slave.
It may simply be a question of hurting and being hurt.
Or is that too obvious ?



needlesandpins -> RE: Masochism vs. service orientation (6/16/2011 5:02:51 AM)

fr

pain as pleasure has been a really strange concept for me due to a couple of things. firstly i had suffered daily pain since i was thirteen and it wasn't until i was in full stage labour without med, hooked upto a monitor as things weren't going well that i was questioned. the midwife was very concerned that i showed no outward sign of pain at all while the monitor told her my contractions were so strong i should have been and probably begging for drugs. i explained that i was feeling the pain but that i had had this everyday for 9 years so it was no biggy to deal with. "seriously, you really need to speak to your dr about this, this is wrong and you shouldn't have to put up with it" no shit sherlock, i'd been asking them to do something for years but with no avail.

a couple of years later i had a really bad riding accident that left me with nerve damage in my shoulder from the spine. i would never have thought that one nerve could work in such a strange way when damaged. it makes my skin hypersensitive to light touch so that what is a normal touch for someone will tickle me in a very bad way. on the flip side, some things that shouldn't hurt just do.

coming up five years ago i had a hysterectomy. the difference that has made to my life has been astounding. one of which is how my body reads pain now compared to then. previously i couldn't bare to have my nipples even played with nicely (that made my mouth itch) let alone have pain inflicted on them. since the op though i love it......infact with my current playmate it's fantastic and he seems to relish inflicting the pain too. i had never let myself be spanked or flogged when with my ex but have done with my pm. the flogging can be two things, either soft but heavey weighted which sends thrills of pleasure, or it gets to be full on whacking. the full on stuff is still pleasurable but in a different way and i think this goes back to my 'pain control method' from when i was in pain all the time. the first time we used the flogger and he got rather heavy handed with it he said afterwards that he had expected me to react more like i do when he inflicts upon my nipples. thinking about it afterwards, i hadn't done because i was concentrating on controling the pain myself. i still got pleasure from it, but more the challenge of seeing just what i could take from him. it's also not a localised pain as with the nipples or a bite.

i guess this sort of thing is also something else i couldn't do casually. my enjoyment of pain has alot to do with who and how it is dished out. for instance the biting, my ex was ok but it just lacked something. but then i was never giving myself over to him either in a submissive way. my pm is exceptionally good in how he dishes out pain and his bite is wonderful. but i do think alot of it comes down to how he is with me and that i do put myself over to him completely.

i'm not sure if that makes sence.

needles



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