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Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The Police! - 5/1/2011 3:26:03 PM   
Outlier2


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This is not a political post it is an information post.

This law school class presentation in 2 parts came to my attention
because a friend recommended it.  The information I found to be insightful
and valuable because of the reasons given in the videos.  I sincerely hope
to never have any use for this information; but I would rather know it than not.


This is a 50 minute law school class presentation in 2 parts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE&feature=related

The first part is by James Duane a law professor and past criminal defense attorney.
The second part is by Officer George Bruch a 3rd year law student who is a
police officer with over 1000 felony investigations and a 98% conviction rate.  

They both give the same advice and many reasons why: Never Talk To The Police!

No matter if you are innocent or not: Never Talk To The Police!

Even if you think you have an airtight alibi: Never Talk To The Police!

They quote past Attorney Generals: Never Talk To The Police!

They quote a Supreme Court Justice: Never Talk To The Police!

They give the reasons why and quote court decisions including
The Supreme Court, why you should:

NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE!

Obviously to attack what they say because of who they are would be
an ad hominem argument; both fallacious and a hijack.  I am interested
in what anyone has to say about the reasons they give not their politics.

However in the interest of full disclosure I will say that these are not a
bunch of left wing anarchist nuts. They are a bunch of right wing Christian nuts.
Specifically this presentation was given at Regent Law school which is
Pat Robinson's law school (yes that Pat Robinson).  Among other people,
past Attorney General John Ashcroft is associated with this school.

But the infromation is the same no matter your politics.
So what is your opinion of what they say?  

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RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/1/2011 3:31:06 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Failure to cooperate with the police, even if you are innocent and uninvolved, is obstruction of justice and can get you jail time.

The time to not talk is if they mirandize you. Nothing you say before being mirandized is admissable if they try to charge you with a crime.

(in reply to Outlier2)
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RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/1/2011 3:35:00 PM   
Slavehandsome


Posts: 382
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Status: offline 		A Tennessee Highway Patrol veteran, fed up with the new policy where officers are no longer empowered to make a judgement call on the side of the road, made a video that has already been pulled off YouTube. He named it How To Avoid A DUI. In it, he detailed the 3 key things everyone needs to train their autopilot on: 1. Don't Walk (refuse all field sobriety tests, because it never plays into your defense but instead always and only as evidence against you), 2. Don't Talk ("Sir have you been drinking tonight?" your answer should be "Do I have to answer that question?" instead of "well I've had 3 beers over the course of the night" because now if you answer affirmatively, they are required to begin DUI proceedings with you), and Don't Blow (If you refuse the breathalyzer on the side of the road or once they take you downtown, and did not participate in field sobriety tests, the state has no evidence against you other than the heresay that you were swerving etc, and you might lose your license for a period of time but the important thing is that you will not get a DUI).
Everyone, have a talk with your autopilot, and remember these 3 things: Don't Walk, Don't Talk, and Don't Blow.

This public service announcement brought to you by American Taxpayers For A Free America.

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RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/1/2011 3:38:27 PM   
Slavehandsome


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Status: offline 		Ken, you're incorrect. When I got a DUI, the cop initially asked me "Sir have you had anything to drink tonight?" which I answered yes, and told him how many drinks I'd had over how long. Fast forward a year, and in court, the cop repeated my words as evidence against me. The judge didn't throw out that evidence, and I was found guilty.


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RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/1/2011 3:54:17 PM   
DesFIP


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Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		In this state, if they believe you are drunk and you refuse both a field test and a breathalyzer, they have the right to transport you to the hospital to have a blood alcohol level test done.

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RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/1/2011 4:12:21 PM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

In this state, if they believe you are drunk and you refuse both a field test and a breathalyzer, they have the right to transport you to the hospital to have a blood alcohol level test done.
Here, too.


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RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/1/2011 4:36:11 PM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Slavehandsome

Ken, you're incorrect. When I got a DUI, the cop initially asked me "Sir have you had anything to drink tonight?" which I answered yes, and told him how many drinks I'd had over how long. Fast forward a year, and in court, the cop repeated my words as evidence against me. The judge didn't throw out that evidence, and I was found guilty.




Many moons ago I went out with a lady who was a lawyer and she said the same thing, "don't say anything."
As for DWI's a $100 cab ride is much cheaper than a DWI!

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RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/1/2011 4:38:37 PM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Slavehandsome

Ken, you're incorrect. When I got a DUI, the cop initially asked me "Sir have you had anything to drink tonight?" which I answered yes, and told him how many drinks I'd had over how long. Fast forward a year, and in court, the cop repeated my words as evidence against me. The judge didn't throw out that evidence, and I was found guilty.



You were stopped by the police terefore you were technically under arrest. You should have invoked the 5th but as you weren't informed of your rights before being questioned a decent lawyer would have gotten the case kicked. Never expect a trial judge to even know the Constitution. You have to be prepared to appeal on stuff like this.

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RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/1/2011 4:53:35 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		(Let me preface by saying I learned my lesson and have not DUI since.)

I didn't cooperate and ended up with an obstruction of justice, which was preferable to the DUI I deserved. It cost me $200 and a night in jail, where I did Sun Salutations to keep warm cuz they keep them so flipping cold. Once they put me in with other women, I convinced them to huddle. Oh, and I had my period and all the staff would give me was pads, which was awkward as I was wearing a skirt and no underwear. I was actually happy to get the prison clothes for that reason. My ex was trying to bail me out immediately but had to drive all over Broward County as they kept moving me around.

I learned my lesson and have not DUI since!

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RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/1/2011 5:01:42 PM   
shannie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Failure to cooperate with the police, even if you are innocent and uninvolved, is obstruction of justice and can get you jail time.

The time to not talk is if they mirandize you. Nothing you say before being mirandized is admissable if they try to charge you with a crime.


Not true.  If you are not in custody, or if you are in custody and simply volunteer information, it will be used you in court, whether you were Mirandized or not. And what's to stop the cops from saying you volunteered it, even if you didn't?  Or lying and saying that your statement came after Miranda, and not before?  There is only one solution:  Don't talk to the police, ever.   I saw a t-shirt once that said, "Anything you say can and will be miscontrued and used against you in a court of law."  :)

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RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/1/2011 5:18:43 PM   
FitExpDomwPic


Posts: 15
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		Obstruction of Justice is, by definition, _interfering_ with police/investigative work. Remaining silent rarely, if ever, constitutes "interference." Lying to police or investigators, especially under oath, is what most "obstruction" charges are. Proving someone is willfully lying can actually pretty tough. Just ask Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald re: Karl Rove.

Politely declining to answer police questioning is not going to get you an Obstruction of Justice charge or get you jail time.

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RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/1/2011 5:20:10 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Not in NYS. In fact, here in Albany our local PD Spokesman ( w/ 19 years in ) got busted for DUI ( after a fellow APD officer warned him not to drive ) and surprise, surprise, surprise -- he didn't take a breathalyzer.



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RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/1/2011 5:20:34 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
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quote:

In this state, if they believe you are drunk and you refuse both a field test and a breathalyzer, they have the right to transport you to the hospital to have a blood alcohol level test done.
I'm only about 85% sure of this, but I believe that in Ontario refusal to take the breathalyzer results in an automatic conviction of DUI.

We have some fascistic tendencies here in the Great White North.


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RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/1/2011 5:25:44 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		The last time I was arrested, the cop told me before reading me my rights, that if I was smart I'd keep my mouth shut till I spoke to my lawyer.
When I got to the jail, they told me that I'd get a chance to call my lawyer in a while, and in the mean time if I was smart, I'd just shut up.

These were cops telling me not to say anything to them. Mind this was an arrest for a technicality which I had surrendered my self over, rather than a real crime, so that may have changed their attitude somewhat.


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RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/1/2011 5:27:43 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		Wanna see a pissed off cop? After they do the whole rigamarole and arrest, breathe into the breathalyzer and it shows 2/3 the legal limit.

Fucker did all that paperwork for NOTHING.

Still cost a night in jail, 3 court dates (cause the fucker wouldn't show) and $1000.

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RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/1/2011 6:39:14 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Wisconsin has an 'Implied consent' law. Failure to take a breath test is implying that you are impaired.

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RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/1/2011 6:48:08 PM   
outhere69


Posts: 1302
Joined: 1/25/2011
Status: offline 		In Ohio life is a bit harsher:

In Ohio, Driving Under the Influence (DUI) and Driving While Intoxicated (DWI) are grouped under the umbrella heading of Operating a Vehicle under the Influence (OVI).

If you are stopped by a police officer and suspected of OVI, you will be asked to take a BAC or chemical test, sometimes referred to as a sobriety test.

If you fail the test by having an unacceptable reading, an Administrative License Suspension (ALS) will automatically begin. This means that you will lose your right to drive from anywhere from 90 days to three years, depending on your driving history. Your license will be confiscated from you on the spot. All of this is separate from any other form of punishment you'll face in court, including extra suspension time.

If you refuse to take the BAC test, your license will automatically be suspended from one year up to five years. And they'll still do the test. In fact, if you've had two or more OVI (or equivalent offenses) convictions, law enforcement officials must obtain a chemical alcohol or drug test by any sort of reasonable measure.
I don't drive under the influence, but I know I'm impaired if I have a migraine.  I would flunk some of the field sobriety tests because I can't walk heel-to-toe anymore due to nerve damage in my feet.  I can see it now... "But officer, stick a pin in my feet and see if I squawk!"


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RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/1/2011 7:22:49 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		Face it. There are enough subjective things on that 'field sobriety test' that if the officer is in a mood to make an arrest, you WILL fail.

PERIOD

If you pass the Blood
Alcohol, then, the DA will start his hammering for a plea bargain.

That's why I had to go to court 3 times (cop never was willing to show his face). The DA wouldn't let it go and kept requesting (and getting) extensions.

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RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/1/2011 8:10:12 PM   
Muttling


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Joined: 9/30/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Slavehandsome

Ken, you're incorrect. When I got a DUI, the cop initially asked me "Sir have you had anything to drink tonight?" which I answered yes, and told him how many drinks I'd had over how long. Fast forward a year, and in court, the cop repeated my words as evidence against me. The judge didn't throw out that evidence, and I was found guilty.




You were stopped by the police terefore you were technically under arrest. You should have invoked the 5th but as you weren't informed of your rights before being questioned a decent lawyer would have gotten the case kicked. Never expect a trial judge to even know the Constitution. You have to be prepared to appeal on stuff like this.


Your information is VERY incorrect concerning Miranda rights.    Miranda only applies if the person is already in custody.   If an officer walks up to you and asks a question (such as asking if you have been drinking during a traffic stop), your response is admissible in court and WILL be used as evidence.

In response to the posts above you.....it is NOT obstruction of justice to refuse to answer an officer's question.    Obstruction of justice is direct effort to prevent justice from happening instead of simply refusing to assist a police officer in an investigation.   In Tennessee, examples of obstructing justice include "resisting or evading arrest, obstruction of service of a legal writ or process, compounding a crime, escape from a penal institution, and failure to appear in court when required to do so."

On a final note, refusing to answer an officer's question is likely to result in your arrest and certain to result in a longer time in handcuffs while the officer investigates the situation.   You don't HAVE to help his investigation, but he IS allowed to detain you until he has determined that your not a part of a crime.   Habeas corpus doesn't kick in for several days (at a minimum) so you can be jailed for a few days without being charged.   If you were a muslim in late 2001, habeas corpus may have taken more than a year to kick in.

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RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/1/2011 8:13:26 PM   
Muttling


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Joined: 9/30/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Face it. There are enough subjective things on that 'field sobriety test' that if the officer is in a mood to make an arrest, you WILL fail.

PERIOD

If you pass the Blood
Alcohol, then, the DA will start his hammering for a plea bargain.



If you pass the blood test, the DA will drop the case.   If he doesn't, hire a defense attorney and watch him eat the DA for lunch.

Most cases that are 1st time DUI and the driver was cooperative with officers will get plea bargained down to wreckless driving even with a blood test that says drunk.   Assuming the DUI driver actually hired an attorney to represent him.

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