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RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/1/2011 8:21:56 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Face it. There are enough subjective things on that 'field sobriety test' that if the officer is in a mood to make an arrest, you WILL fail.

PERIOD

If you pass the Blood
Alcohol, then, the DA will start his hammering for a plea bargain.



If you pass the blood test, the DA will drop the case.   If he doesn't, hire a defense attorney and watch him eat the DA for lunch.

Most cases that are 1st time DUI and the driver was cooperative with officers will get plea bargained down to wreckless driving even with a blood test that says drunk.   Assuming the DUI driver actually hired an attorney to represent him.


Not here in the bible belt. The DA asks for and gets extensions. I had an attorney but untill someone has to testify, all he can do is file.. I finally got sick of missing work and said "Your honor, Mr DA, I will plead guilty to doing 48 MPH in a 45 MPH zone and that is IT. If you want to go to the grand jury, someone is gonna look stupid."
In the bible belt, a first time, there is no plea bargain if they have the numbers on you. You WILL do 2 days in jail and you WILL lose the license for a year.

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(in reply to Muttling)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/2/2011 12:28:39 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		To the OP, this is about ten years old. If not it has been redone.

And that's my advice, keep your goddamn mouth shut. If you REALLY know what you're doing you might do yourself a teentsy weentsy bit of good, by apearing friendly and cooperateive, but other than that it is just more nails in your coffin.

Hmmm, was I about twelve ? maybe thriteen when I learned that ? Not sure.

T^T

(in reply to Outlier2)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/2/2011 4:36:21 AM   
Muttling


Posts: 1612
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Face it. There are enough subjective things on that 'field sobriety test' that if the officer is in a mood to make an arrest, you WILL fail.

PERIOD

If you pass the Blood
Alcohol, then, the DA will start his hammering for a plea bargain.



If you pass the blood test, the DA will drop the case.   If he doesn't, hire a defense attorney and watch him eat the DA for lunch.

Most cases that are 1st time DUI and the driver was cooperative with officers will get plea bargained down to wreckless driving even with a blood test that says drunk.   Assuming the DUI driver actually hired an attorney to represent him.


Not here in the bible belt. The DA asks for and gets extensions. I had an attorney but untill someone has to testify, all he can do is file.. I finally got sick of missing work and said "Your honor, Mr DA, I will plead guilty to doing 48 MPH in a 45 MPH zone and that is IT. If you want to go to the grand jury, someone is gonna look stupid."
In the bible belt, a first time, there is no plea bargain if they have the numbers on you. You WILL do 2 days in jail and you WILL lose the license for a year.



I live in the bible belt as well and it happens all the time in Tennessee.   Sounds like an issue with your particular DA.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/2/2011 7:39:49 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		It goes with out saying that Ken has a duty to call 911 and report his intoxication-  because if he did not it would hinder the investigation, and thus be unlawful. 

(in reply to Muttling)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/2/2011 7:55:20 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Actually this talk of Miranda just about makes me laugh. It's all a bunch of bullshit. Anything you say anywhere at anytime can and will be used against you.

Loose lips sink ships.

T^T

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/2/2011 8:43:27 AM   
flcouple2009


Posts: 2784
Joined: 1/8/2009
Status: offline 		In Florida you have the right One time with no criminal penalty.  The DMV will suspend your DL for a year which you can appeal within 10 days.

That's your one (sort of) get out of jail free card.


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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/3/2011 5:25:50 PM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline 		One of my exes is an attorney. She always told me that if law enforcement asks for my identification and I have it in my possession then I should show it to them but beyond that say as little as possible. She said if I was pulled over for speeding to never admit to any particular speed - "I thought I was traveling at the speed limit, officer". She advised never - under any circumstances - admit that you have been drinking. Basically her advice was to keep my mouth shut and call her immediately.

Good thread. The wide array of legal advice shows why you should never rely on internet forums for legal advice.


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(in reply to flcouple2009)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/3/2011 8:39:25 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Don, technically you are saying to not take internet advice not to take internet advice LOL.

But it's true, don't volunteer anything, unless you did something and it is a courtesy card. Never admit to anything. You know nothing except you were going along minding your own business. But don't use those particular words.

And don't call them "Sir" more than twice if you're over 35 :-)

T^T

(in reply to DomImus)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/4/2011 4:19:53 PM   
Outlier2


Posts: 258
Joined: 11/12/2007
Status: offline 		I am glad that some of you liked the thread.  What I find most
telling is that no one made a single comment about any of the reasons
given in the videos. 

Everybody was quick to give their opinion about the title, but
no one explicitly addressed the content, except to say it was 10
years old.  And I am not sure that was accurate because of some
of the references in the videos. 

Thank you all for your comments.  I will say that I learned more
about how the system works and some of the reasons why!  That
information will make me much more likely to do the right thing
should I ever be in a position to need this information.


_____________________________

Posting for Outlier _ Avatar xkcd.com

"A happy sex life may take years to achieve, but it’s worth it in the long run.
Worth the time, the thought - or rather, the thoughtfulness -and, often, the waiting."
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(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/4/2011 5:44:42 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Sorry about the vids, can you get a transcript ?

I don't know if I ever brought it up before here, but here is another little thing. In Cleveland, usually they stop you and for some reason they ask you the year of your car. Well they go back to their cruiser and of course run the plates and everything and then they come back. Then they ask again " What year is this car ? " in a different tone of voice.

The fact is they are TRAINED. They are trained to watch your eyes, your ears, everything, period. Every word. Even if you don't remember saying something, it might be on tape.

Why would anyone not know what year the car they are driving was made ?

T^T

(in reply to Outlier2)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/4/2011 6:01:01 PM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline 		The cop's information was quite good and well delivered. I don't know if his intent was to show how sneaky and devious cops can be during interrogation but he showed that side of them quite effectively. The police and prosecutors/district attorney's offices are much less about truth and justice as they are about convictions (courtroom convictions - not those associated with personal integrity).

The lawyer probably had some good points but he spoke too fast and was too unbearable to listen to. Reminded me of that really annoying dude on the infomercials with the hideous $$$ suit that hawks his books about how to get free government money. I had to click past him after only a few minutes. I doubt that I would retain the guy as counsel. I didn't get anything from the videos that I had not already learned from my attorney ex-girlfriend and she was a really good fuck on top of it all.




_____________________________

"Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable." Sidney J. harris

(in reply to Outlier2)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/4/2011 6:55:22 PM   
Outlier2


Posts: 258
Joined: 11/12/2007
Status: offline 		I will definitely agree that this guy is no where near as good
as pillow talk from a bright woman.  NO CONTEST!

Two points he made really impressed me.  One, was the
fact that if you make a long statement that is 99% favorable
and say "well it is true that I didn't like the guy" to seem to
be reasonable.  That sentence is all that they will put into
testimony unless you are willing to take the stand and open
yourself to cross examination.  The rest is hearsay.

It what you say is not hearsay if it hurts you, but it is if it helps you.
You cannot help yourself and you will say something they will use
to hurt you.

The second was an example he gave of a real case where 2 attorneys
went into the hall of a courthouse to discuss a case.  The female said
the male grabbed her in a way that was assault.  The male attorney
made the mistake of talking to the police.

Fast forward to the trial, the attorney saying he never admitted anything,
the officer saying the attorney admitted touching her but not grabbing her.
The attorney was convicted!  Because she had the police backing her up!
Without the police testimony it was a "she said - he said" that probably
never goes to trial.

By talking to the police he opened the door to this possibility.  So the
only safe option is: Call an attorney, NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE!

< Message edited by Outlier2 -- 5/4/2011 7:40:59 PM >

_____________________________

Posting for Outlier _ Avatar xkcd.com

"A happy sex life may take years to achieve, but it’s worth it in the long run.
Worth the time, the thought - or rather, the thoughtfulness -and, often, the waiting."
Pete Seeger

(in reply to DomImus)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/4/2011 7:32:21 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline 		The ACLU has the best info about traffic stops and other LEO/citizen encounters.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/4/2011 10:21:27 PM   
Omniseed


Posts: 13
Joined: 4/15/2011
Status: offline 		Since when is it the cop's business what year the car is? Since when is it a crime to not know the year of the car you are driving?

Oh and I can think of a majorly great reason, how about the fact that people often borrow cars or use a friend's to run to the store, or maybe you've heard of this thing called designated drivers? Not neccessarily driving their own cars.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Sorry about the vids, can you get a transcript ?

I don't know if I ever brought it up before here, but here is another little thing. In Cleveland, usually they stop you and for some reason they ask you the year of your car. Well they go back to their cruiser and of course run the plates and everything and then they come back. Then they ask again " What year is this car ? " in a different tone of voice.

The fact is they are TRAINED. They are trained to watch your eyes, your ears, everything, period. Every word. Even if you don't remember saying something, it might be on tape.

Why would anyone not know what year the car they are driving was made ?

T^T


(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/4/2011 10:26:01 PM   
Omniseed


Posts: 13
Joined: 4/15/2011
Status: offline 		Is this news to anyone? Do not ever say anything to an on duty police officer beyond legally mandated questions and answers, and oh by the way you need to know what you have to answer yourself, because they can and will lie through their teeth to you, especially if you are asking them if you have to answer something. It's nothing personal, it's just their job to fuck you over as hard and as unethically as they can. Illegal and unethical are not the same by the way.

(in reply to Omniseed)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/5/2011 2:30:38 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"Since when is it a crime to not know the year of the car"

They are trying to detect unlawful operation, unlawful entrustment and unreported auto theft.

Don't get into a tizzy about it, that's what they want.

Like "Where did you get this bag of weed ? ". Times like that I play. They stop me, I point ahead and say right there. I was trying to take it back because it was really shitty.

Psychologically they are trying to mount the higher position. Last about seven times I been stopped, no license, no insurance, beer between my legs. No jail. I don't want to fucking talk about it because everyone thinks I'm full of shit but I got the tickets to prove it. Even DUI, no bail despite having well over ten warrants. They have ALOT more discretion than people think and that's how some people get away with alot of shit. But I am full of shit.

I got about twenty warrants ranging from 1995 to 2011. They stopped me after I jumped paper in 2011. No jail again. I got the tickets.

You see, I know how they operate. I know how to make them NOT want to take me to jail. They learn the game of chess. I have a technique in chess. It only works so long. I can win anywhere from one to about eight games in about five moves. But I always win the first time with a new opponent. That's luck. Problem is eventually every cop around here will have stopped me and I will be fucked.

So what.

T^T

(in reply to Omniseed)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/7/2011 9:05:23 PM   
Rhodes85


Posts: 445
Joined: 11/15/2008
From: Nova Scotia, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

Failure to cooperate with the police, even if you are innocent and uninvolved, is obstruction of justice and can get you jail time.


Refusing to speak to the police without a lawyer present is not obstruction of justice. Usually its a smart move, considering how many cops are corrupt (and its alot more than you might think)

quote:

You were stopped by the police terefore you were technically under arrest.


No. You are not under arrest until they tell you you are under arrest.

quote:

I'm only about 85% sure of this, but I believe that in Ontario refusal to take the breathalyzer results in an automatic conviction of DUI.


No, that would be grossly illegal. If you refuse they have the right to transport you to a hospital to have blood drawn to determine if you've got alcohol in your system.

quote:

I live in the bible belt as well and it happens all the time in Tennessee. Sounds like an issue with your particular DA


I'd have to agree there...if you pass a blood test and they've got proof you're clean the DA is asking for trouble by attempting to keep things going longer.

The moral of the story is don't volunteer anything, don't say anything at all that doesn't directly pertain to the situation and the questions they are asking you and most importantly do NOT piss them off. A good way to tell if they have done something they shouldn't have is to ask for their badge number. Their reaction will tell you real quick if something is up.

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This is a test of the Emergency Broadcast System. Had this been an actual emergency you would all be dead by now. Have a nice day and remember: Friends don't let friends vote Republican.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/7/2011 9:09:22 PM   
wittynamehere


Posts: 759
Joined: 2/5/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Omniseed

Is this news to anyone? Do not ever say anything to an on duty police officer beyond legally mandated questions and answers, and oh by the way you need to know what you have to answer yourself, because they can and will lie through their teeth to you, especially if you are asking them if you have to answer something. It's nothing personal, it's just their job to fuck you over as hard and as unethically as they can. Illegal and unethical are not the same by the way.

Agreed, and agreed with Rhodes85. Arpig, you should really know what you're talking about before you act like you do online. Spreading disinfo aint cool.

< Message edited by wittynamehere -- 5/7/2011 9:12:16 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/7/2011 10:01:19 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		It's awfully hard to talk your way out of the back seat of a police car, without doing some talking. My experience is that it is best to keep your story simple, and as close to the truth as possible under the circumstances (the fewer lies you tell, the fewer you need to remember the second, third, and fourth time they ask the same question).

These are highly variable, and volatile situations. A better rule is to not get asked questions in the first place.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Law Professor and Cop Both Say: Never Talk To The P... - 5/8/2011 3:56:40 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Actually silence worked quite well a couple of times for me.

T^T

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Profile   Post #: 40
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