RE: I need tips on verbal abuse as a dom.

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DesFIP -> RE: I need tips on verbal abuse as a dom. (4/20/2011 12:59:47 PM)
You said you have a history of violence. It was advised that deliberately trying to break through to that source might cause you to again be violent. If this is not the case, there is no way for us to know. However, is it that you are on the edge of losing control that she is attracted to or simply that you are very passionate? Beyond that, what she would consider acceptable verbal abuse could easily be something that I would find a deal breaker. So what kind of things does she want to be called? Do you do any humiliation or degradation as of now? Because there's a difference between calling someone a slut when it gets them connected to their sexual self and calling them a stupid, ugly bitch which could easily harm them. Which does she like? More importantly, is this something you want to do? Will you feel good for abusing and degrading her? You have as much right to put your own limits in place as she does. And even if it isn't something that crosses your ethical boundaries, if you do it by rote but aren't feeling it, it is doubtful that she will feel turned on by it. Quite possibly, if you don't feel that what you are saying is real and true, she won't either. However if it's the hint of violence that attracts her, there are role plays that include that. Wrestling which includes the risk of her being thrown about and hurt. Rape play which includes fear. Mindfucks that can include a threat of violence. And primal play where both of you are no holds barred. Among others. I suggest you folks talk a lot more and figure out exactly what it is that she's looking for. Perhaps then we could make concrete suggestions if we had more info to go on.

KentAltDom -> RE: I need tips on verbal abuse as a dom. (4/20/2011 1:01:24 PM)
I actually understood the question the first time - maybe because I've been in the same situation. Let's get this discussion back on track. I can understand why some of the women in here reacted to what was written, but it's a fair and important question. I don't have a violent history, but I too have had to break some mental barriers to become a good Dom. I have no desire to hurt women or call them names in a day-to-day setting, and I have the utmost respect for them. But I also have a desire to Dominate them in the BDSM setting. To be a good Dom I've had to overcome my politeness. Let's face it, many sub women do not want to be treated like princesses, and if a Dom does, he's not their Dom for a long time. It has taken me a long time, but I've broken though the barrier, finally. It was actually a sub who facilitated this. We had talked for a long time about what she wanted and needed, and on the night we had a really good time. At one point I slapped her face. It was something she had put down as one of her "wants", and I slapped her, but more to mark a line in the sand, that hard. After I'd done it a few times she looked at me and said "You hit like a girl!". That was the exact point when I understood that I was not hurting her by slapping her hard in the face, I was doing her a favour, and I let go of my inhibitions. Now she may ride me while I slap her face hard and call her a c*nt, and she loves me for doing it. Or I may pull her head back when she sucks me off, give her three or four hard slaps, then stuff it back in, and she loves me for it. If this was in a domestic relationship it would probably be classified as violence, but it's not. This is her sexual desire, and I'm happy to be a part of helping her achieve sexual gratification this way. That does not mean I'd ever, ever do it outside of the BDSM setting. As for Revenge, this is the same thing. Your girlfriend wants you to verbally abuse her, and you have to look at it this way; You're not doing her a favour by being civilized, quite the opposite. It IS a mental barrier to break through, and I hope you succeed. My advise is to set some limits for this; Firstly you need to find out if you're turned on by this at all? If you're not don't do it. Also you need to stay in control - you might want her to think you're losing it on her, but inside you need to be calm and calculating. You need to have a safe word for her if it gets too much for her. You'd probably want to sit down and talk it through with her. Is the verbal abuse all she wants, or does it tie in with a desire for, say, rough sex, or being put in a corner as a bad girl. Don't just go off on her one day. Hope you could use my advise. M

Revenge93 -> RE: I need tips on verbal abuse as a dom. (4/20/2011 1:46:50 PM)
The situation I'm in is similar to KentAltDom's "you hit like a girl" situation. I have engaged in some verbal abuse with her, and now she wants more. I've been told I can be "meaner", that she would like to see me angry, and wants me to "get in her face". I'm fairly certain it's a degradation fetish, not the threat of violence that she's attracted to. I've never tried to intimidate of threaten a woman outside of a purely fetish situation. We talk about everything before trying it, and at this point there are almost no inhibitions between us when it comes to bondage, sado-masochism, or other physical kinks, but there seems to be some block from me indulging in this verbal abuse fascination of hers. I do think it would be a turn on, but I can't seem to find the trick that let's me forget about the proper way to treat someone, and to push myself further from my relatively polite behavior (although polite certainly isn't how I would describe my attitude, haha). It's odd that I'm able to push boundaries physically, but with something this simple, I'm having trouble going further. I'm not going to snap and abuse someone. It's nothing like that at all. I only mentioned violence to elaborate that my sub/girl is attracted to a small part of my personality that can be very confrontational and formerly violent in certain situations, and she gets excited whenever my temper flares, although it's not like I'm a raging goon or anything, which seems to be the impression my original post gave. Thanks for posting some decent advice in the past few posts. I'm glad some people understood what I was trying to say.

Arpig -> RE: I need tips on verbal abuse as a dom. (4/20/2011 2:12:38 PM)
quote: It's odd that I'm able to push boundaries physically, but with something this simple, I'm having trouble going further. I'm not a big proponent of pushing my boundaries, personally. That's what subs are for. If you're not comfortable doing it, just tell her thanks for the input and continue on with what it is you do like doing. If you are uncomfortable with this form of verbal abuse, then there is probably a good reason you are. Its admirable that you are wanting to give her this because she wants it, but part of the deal of submitting is that the dominant partner decides what you get.

mnottertail -> RE: I need tips on verbal abuse as a dom. (4/20/2011 2:26:20 PM)
Hey, remember how she forced you into watching 'Brokeback Mountain', and 'Fried Green Tomatoes' and 'The Traveling Pants of the Fuckin' Ya-Ya Sisterhood', and you acted as though you liked it, just to comfort her? Same fuckin' act, Smokin' Joe!!!!

sunshinemiss -> RE: I need tips on verbal abuse as a dom. (4/20/2011 4:05:35 PM)
To the OP: I'm going to take you seriously and see if I can tease out an answer that makes sense. Please be patient. First there are two things that I see you talking about - physical bdsm and verbal. Two different kettles of fish all stemming from the same stream (not a bad metaphor if I do say so). Verbal interactions can be as harmful as physical, so I caution you to take care. It doesn't seem you wish to HARM her, you just wanna get her panties moist. Are you talking about humiliation? name calling, telling her she can't do something well, etc? There are some excellent threads on that topic, and I would rather not go into a long diatribe since other, more knowledgeable folks have already expressed themselves more eloquently than I could hope to. For this, you need to know what chimes her bell. Only she knows that. It is your job to find that out. What embarasses her? Push her a little in that direction, see how it works, see if she enjoys it (or does she shut down?) and then move along to the next step. Physical interactions - this can be tricky. This is where having a violent history can be a minefield. It is best you be aware of and careful around this. It's rather like a recovering alcoholic walking into a bar. It's not that they CAN'T remain sober, it's just a good bit more difficult. Same with violence / playing. Hitting someone, the adrenalin, the "Dom High" can get out of control if you aren't careful and you could end up going beyond what she's comfortable with and into the realm of abuse. You may want to get involved in the local community and find a mentor, a Dom with whom you could talk about these things. There is a thread around here about Doms fearing this side of themselves, fear of going too far. It is an important consideration. It would seem you are pretty aware and you are being mindful of this if your post is correct. Here's where I would caution you. A woman who is attracted to your violence could be a woman who expects to be abused. Just as abusers look for victims (consciously or un-), so to do people of a victim mentality search for someone who fulfills their way of looking at the world. It sounds like already she is pushing you beyond your own comfort level. If she asked you to whack off her leg, would you do it? Of course not. But she's asking you to do something that is beyond what is natural for you at this point in time. Are you sure you can trust her not to call "rape" or "abuse"? Are you sure she knows the difference? Truly knows the difference between BDSM and abuse? Are you sure you can look yourself in the mirror the next day? Your wish to release those cultural norms (like about hitting girls or calling girls names and such) is a fairly common theme that other Doms have spoken of. It is also a process in which you have to look at your own desires and comforts. It is something that takes time. So to specific suggestions: find a mentor in your community. take some acting classes - they will help you tap into and then get away from the emotions. speak softly, right in her face (very powerful) learn her trigger words/actions be honest with yourself about what you are comfortable doing/saying RIGHT NOW. These can change over time. Have her find a mentor as well to find a way to manage all the feelings / fantasies that are coming up. Maintain open communication with her. Don't go faster than you are comfortable going Best, sunshine

LadyPact -> RE: I need tips on verbal abuse as a dom. (4/20/2011 4:11:25 PM)
OP, I do think you have to take a step back and realize that you left out some detail from the original post. I've read the whole thread, but I have a much different idea than I did when I read the original. To tell you the truth, I was going to ask just how long you've been with the girlfriend because if it was something short term, I'd be wondering if someone was setting you up. This is especially true with terminology such as "verbal abuse". Second point which is a bit off track of the original, please take one position or the other. You're either new or you've been doing this for six years. You can't be both at the same time. (Hold on, because this is going to pay off.) Anybody who has been doing this for six years probably should know that they aren't always going to get the reactions to their questions that make them happy. Most people with six years of experience would know the answer to the question that you have posed. You do it like any other area that is covered by wiitwd. You do a little at a time, get comfortable with it, see that it's really ok to do activity X, then you do a little more. If you can't get comfortable with it, you don't progress. Sometimes, activity X feels a little funny to you or you have trepidations about it. (Ask Me just how much "nervous laughter" I had the first time I pissed in somebody's mouth.) You start small and you work your way up. Think of it in steps and not some giant leap that you have to make. Are there words of phrases that turn her on that you feel ok about using at this time? Start with that. As you become confident with doing that much, you can do a little more. With each step, take the time to realize how well it is working out. Pay attention to how much it turns her on and the great sex that you are having because of it. Add a bit more and repeat the process. It really is that simple. Now, you can bitch Me out because you don't like the way I answered your post, or you can try it and see if it works for you. If I'm wrong, I'm just another person on the internet, but if I'm right.......

sexyred1 -> RE: I need tips on verbal abuse as a dom. (4/20/2011 4:31:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Revenge93 quote: ORIGINAL: sexyred1 quote: ORIGINAL: Revenge93 It was in quotations, because those were her words, not mine. You should try not to make assumptions without understanding the initial question. No dear, you had parentheses around the fact that you have a violent history. So, yes, we made an assumption based on your honest assessment of your violent past. Carry on. I have never been violent with a woman, and have been in D/s relationships for the past 6 years of my life, which is quite a bit considering that I'm still in my 20s. You are assuming something from one (admittedly) poorly explained sentence, while ignoring the question that was proposed, and once again suggesting that there is a strict set of criteria that one must conform to before even bothering to ask questions on an anonymous message board. I've seen this too much on here. The word history should even suggest that it is not a current problem. I'm not looking for advice on how to harm someone. I'm asking tips on how to break through my own personal barrier of decency, to indulge in something that my partner finds appealing, verbal abuse, which is something that seems rather common. If you don't feel like addressing the question, and would rather spend your time on here judging whether or not other people should even be involved in a certain lifestyle, then there are probably others who would be glad to argue on the internet about it. I'm not going to waste anymore time than this, and would much rather see constructive advice or criticism rather than the opinionated and poorly informed garbage I've been seeing on here. So, when someone who is obviously relatively new comes to this board to ask some questions, it would seem logical for the regulars to be receptive and constructive to allow newer people to work on healthy habits and relationships. The words you type aren't going to suddenly convince someone to abandon a fetish or lifestyle. It's easy to become overly judgmental and opinionated on the internet, but it's not a helpful mentality when people are looking for advice. Hey dude...I just got back to this thread and obviously, you have clarified your points and now I understand. Sorry for appearing to be judgemental, but as it has been said, all we ever have to go on is how and what someone writes. Now onto the issue....I also very much agree with KentAltDom. Here is the thing from a sub point of view and I actually think I can help a tad. My ex husband was like you; he wanted to do whatever it was I desired but had a personal threshold (with the verbal and physical) that he could not cross. He tried, but I needed more than what he could provide. I understood you cannot push a man past a barrier like that. He had issues within himself that only he could deal with. Onto my ex boyfriend. He had never experienced this lifestyle with anyone before me (he is much younger than me). Since we had awesome chemistry I was able to construct what we did slowly but surely in the direction I wanted. Now, unlike my ex husband, HE had no qualms about saying or doing anything that turned him on. And here is where the relevance to you comes in: while I loved rough and kinky talk, being dirty and deviant, being called you slut, whore, etc. I was not and am not into degradation. So, it is a case of experimentation. If he said you hot fucking whore, I loved it. If he EVER said, you ugly, worthless fucking whore, I would go ballistic. There is a line to be crossed with everyone. In your case, you need communication, communication and more communication on both your parts. She needs to let you know what level of verbal she needs and you need to let her know what you are comfortable with. Believe me, it will be a work in progress, mine certainly was for 12 years. I let him say and do things I NEVER thought I would and I also learned what was unacceptable to be said or done to me. Hope that helped.

DarkSteven -> RE: I need tips on verbal abuse as a dom. (4/20/2011 4:41:21 PM)
Dude, step back. I don't know how much effort and counseling it took to tame the savage beast within you, but I'd be extremely afraid of letting that beast out again to get a girl hot.

DesFIP -> RE: I need tips on verbal abuse as a dom. (4/20/2011 5:32:29 PM)
As far as how to do it. Write down phrases that you read and believe she might like. Put them on an index card inside your dresser drawer. Now, when you next play, blindfold her. Then go get the card and read off a phrase. She won't know it's a script and you'll be able to see her reaction. Do not expect her to safeword if you hit an emotional trigger. Do strongly observe her body language. If she curls up into a ball, turns away from you, hunches up her neck to protect herself - that means you've hit a trigger. Stop and undo her and hold her while you reassure her how valued she is. And even though the idea of this is hot, that's fantasy. It may well be that reality will be anything but. So don't be expecting the greatest scene ever. You might get lucky, but you could equally not.

ResidentSadist -> RE: I need tips on verbal abuse as a dom. (4/20/2011 6:20:49 PM)
Ok... I'll toss in my 2 cents. Vocal Tone I could read the yellow pages to a crowd of strangers on a buss and make them all cower in fear. I can use my voice to make someone shake in fear or cum involuntarily. Technique Depending on your level of creativity, you don't need a script, only a topic plan. I grab a topic or two that I know she is sensitive about, like her father or guilty secret desires. I start by talking about what I want to humiliate her with so I get myself hot and my creative juices start flowing. Then while doing whatever secret guilty thing, I work in the topic that would really bring it all home and say, "what would you do if your father could see you now while you were doing _____?" I'd grab the phone and say "I'm calling your father and I want you to confess to him what a dirty little slut you are" I'd really be dialing up a Domly friend who was already in on it but with a distorted speaker phone, no one could tell who it really was. As soon as he said "hello", I'd cut him off and say "do you know what your naked daughter is doing right now?" . . . then I would command her "tell him what a slut you are and that you are _____" Stuff like constructed to with a target topic usually hits a home run in the humiliation department. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I was a blast at play parties. Never, take her car or let her drive. Even if she blocked your car in when she met you at your house and it's more convenient to take hers. You never know when a new date will go screaming from the public party with a cell phone duck taped to her shoulder and leave you behind.

Revenge93 -> RE: I need tips on verbal abuse as a dom. (4/20/2011 6:27:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sexyred1 Hey dude...I just got back to this thread and obviously, you have clarified your points and now I understand. Sorry for appearing to be judgemental, but as it has been said, all we ever have to go on is how and what someone writes. Now onto the issue....I also very much agree with KentAltDom. Here is the thing from a sub point of view and I actually think I can help a tad. My ex husband was like you; he wanted to do whatever it was I desired but had a personal threshold (with the verbal and physical) that he could not cross. He tried, but I needed more than what he could provide. I understood you cannot push a man past a barrier like that. He had issues within himself that only he could deal with. Onto my ex boyfriend. He had never experienced this lifestyle with anyone before me (he is much younger than me). Since we had awesome chemistry I was able to construct what we did slowly but surely in the direction I wanted. Now, unlike my ex husband, HE had no qualms about saying or doing anything that turned him on. And here is where the relevance to you comes in: while I loved rough and kinky talk, being dirty and deviant, being called you slut, whore, etc. I was not and am not into degradation. So, it is a case of experimentation. If he said you hot fucking whore, I loved it. If he EVER said, you ugly, worthless fucking whore, I would go ballistic. There is a line to be crossed with everyone. In your case, you need communication, communication and more communication on both your parts. She needs to let you know what level of verbal she needs and you need to let her know what you are comfortable with. Believe me, it will be a work in progress, mine certainly was for 12 years. I let him say and do things I NEVER thought I would and I also learned what was unacceptable to be said or done to me. Hope that helped. Thanks for checking back in and being understanding. Well, this sub enjoys being called a whore, and to be treated accordingly. It's relatively early into our relationship, so I'm still getting a feel for her boundaries and interests (which so far I've not hit a brick wall with anything). She tells me constantly how much she enjoys the things I've been saying to her, but that she thinks I'm holding back, and that she wants to me to be "meaner", and even yell. I'm comfortable staying calm and talking to her, but I've never raised my voice or really understand how far she wants me to take it. I've not really though about a difference between degradation and the more docile verbal abuse I've been doing. So, thanks, because your clarification it will make it easier to put into words and ask about.

sexyred1 -> RE: I need tips on verbal abuse as a dom. (4/20/2011 9:31:40 PM)
One thing that helped my last guy was when he said something that really drove me crazy, I would somehow let him know, by moaning, or melting and even if I could not articulate at the moment how I felt then, afterwards I would say, wow, when you said ____, that was so hot it almost made me cum. And if he said something horrible that I could not take, I would tell him afterwards that that statement, word, etc. does not work and please do not say it again. I really do have to say that there is a tremendously marked difference between degradation and verbal humiliation, etc. It is as varied as the individuals involved.

OwnedFemaleFlesh -> RE: I need tips on verbal abuse as a dom. (4/20/2011 10:38:51 PM)
My advice would be - whatever play you do, don't play while angry. I think that is why some people are reacting to your original post. Verbal abuse is great, but losing control is not. I know you say that you have never been violent to a woman, and that you perhaps explained your situation badly in your first post, but I feel that you wouldn't have put those details in there if they were relevant to your own understanding of the situation / problem. You also reiterate that you are a calm Dom, so this must be important to you. Perhaps it is not that you are struggling to verbally abuse your sub, but that you are struggling to do it in the way that she suggests - i.e. when you have had a bad day at work and are irritable. Do you see it as pushing a boundary which might not be so healthy so push? I would suggest you start off at a time when you are very much not angry or irritable. Perhaps if you have had a great day at work and feel good about things, but can pretend otherwise when you walk through the door? Then you can just role-play something that possibly would come quite easily 'Look at the state of this place you stupid bitch, can't you even tidy up you filthy, dirty whore?' etc. And then just pretend to unload the stress of your day onto her. But I really would disregard her suggestion that you 'take it out on her' for real, slippery slope imo. owned xxx

SailingBum -> RE: I need tips on verbal abuse as a dom. (4/21/2011 12:01:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Revenge93 This is something strange and outside of my normal comfort zone, but apparently my sub/girl is turned on whenever I have a temper. If I get into arguments or have a bad day (I am an irritable person and had a violent history, to be honest), she gets turned on and wants me to "take it out on her" through yelling and verbal abuse. I am normally the calm sort of dom, and although I practice some verbal abuse, it still seems like I'm filtering my words, and I've never actually yelled at her. I also feel this could be interesting and bring a new level of intensity to sex, maybe even a release for me, but I need some advice on turning those filters off so that I can be open and have a good time with it. Any advice? yea you can start "manning the fuck up bitch" I read your post like this " My sweet lil sub wants me to yell at her" then you go on to say.. I think i might like it "can someone please tell me how to yell at my sweet lil sub" After asking for advice you chastise someone "for not understanding your intent" What the fuck over are we mind readers??? BadOne

SexyBossyBBW -> RE: I need tips on verbal abuse as a dom. (4/21/2011 1:27:37 AM)
My suggestion is to NEVER pretend you're dominating, when you are angry, irritable, feeling short fused, or out of control. I have difficulty with your wording, "verbal abuse;" especially admitting "I am an irritable person and had a violent history," , rather than verbal humiliation, which is something you can learn to do. Things like Calling her out of her name. Find what she is sensitive about, and criticize her about. Criticize her behavior, her clothing, appearance, etc... Be very certain, she wants this, and start slowly, monitoring how well she receives it. If you however go with verbal ABUSE, which frequently progresses to physical abuse, you may end up a creek, without a paddle. Good luck, M

ExSteelAgain -> RE: I need tips on verbal abuse as a dom. (4/21/2011 1:48:36 AM)
The thread is like being a psychiatrist and letting the patient talk his problems out. The OP has come to his own understandings as the thread went on and he wrote more. SexyRed made the pertinent point. It's okay to say you fucking hot cunt, whore, bitch, etc., but saying you ugly, fat, stupid, etc. pig will have the wrong effect. And if you don't know that intuitively be careful of what you say.

SexyBossyBBW -> RE: I need tips on verbal abuse as a dom. (4/21/2011 2:23:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain The thread is like being a psychiatrist and letting the patient talk his problems out. The OP has come to his own understandings as the thread went on and he wrote more. SexyRed made the pertinent point. It's okay to say you fucking hot cunt, whore, bitch, etc., but saying you ugly, fat, stupid, etc. pig will have the wrong effect. And if you don't know that intuitively be careful of what you say. These are definitely better examples. Fun, vs You idiot, we're never having sex again.[:D] M

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: I need tips on verbal abuse as a dom. (4/21/2011 6:21:36 AM)
After more information, I think I may have misjudged your intentions in my first post. I would apologize if your post had not been so poorly worded. quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist Ok... I'll toss in my 2 cents. Vocal Tone I could read the yellow pages to a crowd of strangers on a buss and make them all cower in fear. I can use my voice to make someone shake in fear or cum involuntarily. Technique Depending on your level of creativity, you don't need a script, only a topic plan. I grab a topic or two that I know she is sensitive about, like her father or guilty secret desires. I start by talking about what I want to humiliate her with so I get myself hot and my creative juices start flowing. Then while doing whatever secret guilty thing, I work in the topic that would really bring it all home and say, "what would you do if your father could see you now while you were doing _____?" I'd grab the phone and say "I'm calling your father and I want you to confess to him what a dirty little slut you are" I'd really be dialing up a Domly friend who was already in on it but with a distorted speaker phone, no one could tell who it really was. As soon as he said "hello", I'd cut him off and say "do you know what your naked daughter is doing right now?" . . . then I would command her "tell him what a slut you are and that you are _____" Stuff like constructed to with a target topic usually hits a home run in the humiliation department. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I was a blast at play parties. Never, take her car or let her drive. Even if she blocked your car in when she met you at your house and it's more convenient to take hers. You never know when a new date will go screaming from the public party with a cell phone duck taped to her shoulder and leave you behind. Every good dom learns how to modulate their voice in a variety of ways, from the imperative commanding tone to the softest of whispers. I think she is trying to tell you that your tone when you are angry turns her on. It has that real imperative ring to it that subs just love. This does not men you "take thing out on her" when you are angry, as has been stated, don't play angry. Learn to modulate your voice and control your facial expressions. I can easily display my displeasure with a quick cock of an eyebrow. And when I say "modulate" your voice, I don't mean yell. I never yell. I command.

OsideGirl -> RE: I need tips on verbal abuse as a dom. (4/21/2011 7:37:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Revenge93 If I get into arguments or have a bad day (I am an irritable person and had a violent history, to be honest), she gets turned on and wants me to "take it out on her" through yelling and verbal abuse. Any advice? Yes, counseling. There's a difference between something that's an agreed upon scene such as humiliation and taking your anger out on someone. It sounds as if there's an unhealthy issue there and you're also teaching yourself to just give your anger free rein, which will eventually lead to it's own issues. You should probably look at the root of where this is coming from besides "It turns her on".

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