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RE: Justice or Mercy - 4/10/2011 9:13:06 AM

littlewonder

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

it depends on why or who is stealing from me.

Was it a child who was hungry? I show mercy and try to help that child in any way I can.

Was it someone who is a professional burglar? Then I show justice and make sure he gets a stiff prison sentence.

Which, in effect, is applying your sense of justice - who is deserving and who isn't.

Have you ever really fucked up and been lucky enough to be on the receiving end of a kind heart? I know I have.

Of course and then there have been times when I haven't been so lucky and rightfully so because I didn't deserve mercy for what I did. Each situation was different depending on what I did or didn't do.

There is no one way...it's situational and individual dependent.

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RE: Justice or Mercy - 4/10/2011 9:18:07 AM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

it depends on why or who is stealing from me.

Was it a child who was hungry? I show mercy and try to help that child in any way I can.

Was it someone who is a professional burglar? Then I show justice and make sure he gets a stiff prison sentence.

Which, in effect, is applying your sense of justice - who is deserving and who isn't.

Have you ever really fucked up and been lucky enough to be on the receiving end of a kind heart? I know I have.

Of course and then there have been times when I haven't been so lucky and rightfully so because I didn't deserve mercy for what I did. Each situation was different depending on what I did or didn't do.

There is no one way...it's situational and individual dependent.

LittleWonder, the word 'deserve' seems to be important to you - nothing wrong with that, obviously - although in my view, life should be more than a series of standards to which we measure our actions, which, ultimately, justice is.

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RE: Justice or Mercy - 4/10/2011 2:14:59 PM

Toppingfrmbottom

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I pick partners who're merciful when carrying out justice.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Which do you practice when push comes to shove?

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RE: Justice or Mercy - 4/10/2011 2:47:20 PM

agirl

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i'm used to being dealt with *justice*,ie .*You do this, then I do that*. A pretty cut and dried system and easy to live with. I'm not that familiar with *mercy*.

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RE: Justice or Mercy - 4/10/2011 3:13:12 PM

Palliata

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I am a Consequentialist when it comes to punishment within a dynamic. That is to say, I choose the punishment (or lack of punishment) which is most likely to produce the results I'm seeking. I don't take the Retributivist view that punishment is necessary to rebalance some cosmic scale, nor do I seek to revenge myself for whatever wrong a sub may have undertaken. Instead, I choose the level of punishment or mercy which will create what I seek from what I have.

At least, in theory. I have been known to go against my own better judgment when I'm feeling generous.

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RE: Justice or Mercy - 4/12/2011 2:02:32 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Palliata

I am a Consequentialist when it comes to punishment within a dynamic. That is to say, I choose the punishment (or lack of punishment) which is most likely to produce the results I'm seeking. I don't take the Retributivist view that punishment is necessary to rebalance some cosmic scale, nor do I seek to revenge myself for whatever wrong a sub may have undertaken. Instead, I choose the level of punishment or mercy which will create what I seek from what I have.

At least, in theory. I have been known to go against my own better judgment when I'm feeling generous.

Nice post, Palliata.

Out of curiosity, in the event an outcome you desire compromised a strong personal value, which would you go with?

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Post #: 26

RE: Justice or Mercy - 4/12/2011 2:53:42 PM

Focus50

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

'Push comes to shove' - English idiom - meaning your preferred choice when in a position where you have to choose between the two. When the ywo values clash etc.

Whoa, forgot I'd posted in here....

Anyhoo, I'm well aware that 'push comes to shove' is a bottom line scenario where you have to choose rather than decide to choose. I just can't fathom why the two values need to clash.

If you're considering mercy, then you're making a judgement/justice call. Whereas a blanket "No Mercy" - Peter O'Toole (Lawrence of Arabia) screaming "No prisoners!" comes to mind - then justice was never in the equation to choose against. And he (O'Toole as Lawrence) was well on the way to a straight jacket and rubber room when he said it.

Real life justice without mercy usually makes a good book or movie. And there's nothing harder than a hypothetical "worst case scenario" - you'd really have to be there to answer your question. Which is why hypotheticals suck....

Focus.

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RE: Justice or Mercy - 4/12/2011 3:14:12 PM

stellauk

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I see both as interchangeable mechanisms for cognitive learning and favour neither because I am guided in my relationships and actions by my own hierarchy of moral and spiritual values.

My choice will always be the one which brings the greater benefit, given the context, circumstances and situation.

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RE: Justice or Mercy - 4/12/2011 3:27:00 PM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
I just can't fathom why the two values need to clash.

... or even be applicable to the problem statement...

What I don't really get is "who is pushing? who is shoving? why are they doing this? If I were to push and shove Carol what possible gain could I have in mind?

Carol and I love each other. Accordingly, we're not seeking to push and shove each other. Doing so would only do harm to our relationship. We both know that. Hence my answer... We use dominance and love in place of justice and mercy. Dominance to steer the ship and love to guide my hand on that wheel. The whole crime & punishment metaphor is like trying to examine our marriage in terms of quantum theory... it's just an inappropriate model.

If I got into a place of pushing and shoving then my relationship has already died. So maybe my answer is, "When push comes to shove I get a divorce. There's nothing left to work for anyway."

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RE: Justice or Mercy - 4/12/2011 3:41:02 PM

sunshinemiss

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I completely don't understand this an either / or question. Most of life is not so. Heck breakfast isn't either / or. I would hope that morality was a bit more complex than my breakfast.

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RE: Justice or Mercy - 4/12/2011 3:48:33 PM

NuevaVida

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Which do you practice when push comes to shove?

Merciful justice. Doesn't need to be either/or.

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RE: Justice or Mercy - 4/13/2011 6:59:08 AM

CreativeDominant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Which do you practice when push comes to shove?

I practice justice with mercy....the level is decided by the situation

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RE: Justice or Mercy - 4/13/2011 8:47:17 AM

Palliata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
Out of curiosity, in the event an outcome you desire compromised a strong personal value, which would you go with?

I exist within an extremely firm, if liberal, ethical code. There are certain things I absolutely do not do, whether my operant estimations dictate it or not.

< Message edited by Palliata -- 4/13/2011 8:48:12 AM >

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Post #: 33

RE: Justice or Mercy - 4/13/2011 11:55:55 AM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

If you're considering mercy, then you're making a judgement/justice call. Whereas a blanket "No Mercy" - Peter O'Toole (Lawrence of Arabia) screaming "No prisoners!" comes to mind - then justice was never in the equation to choose against. And he (O'Toole as Lawrence) was well on the way to a straight jacket and rubber room when he said it.

Focus.[/font][/size][/color]

Perhaps we're disagreeing over the definition of justice.

Justice, although it can be tempered with mercy, is generally speaking administering what is considered to be 'right'.

Mercy, quite clearly, is a more forgiving mode of action.

Justice can be seen as just desserts; mercy as that which is not deserved (using the criteria of 'right').

Using one situation, when a Christian begs for mercy he/she asks that God punish him/her less than that which God is justified in doing.

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