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RE: let's talk about leadership - 3/28/2011 4:41:56 PM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		Another characteristic I consider important in a leader is that they don't ask or order anyone to do something they wouldn't do themselves.

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RE: let's talk about leadership - 3/28/2011 4:48:31 PM   
needlesandpins


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

The douchiness runs high in this thread.


Now it does, yeah.



thank you Panda

i'm loving your avatar btw

needles

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
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RE: let's talk about leadership - 3/28/2011 4:51:05 PM   
needlesandpins


Posts: 3901
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quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes

Another characteristic I consider important in a leader is that they don't ask or order anyone to do something they wouldn't do themselves.


good point. i guess that's a thing about bossy people, they are good at dishing out stuff they don't want to do. i want a leader who is going to muck in and help. not someone who wants to feel self important and looking pretty.

some good answers guys, keep em coming

needles

(in reply to windchymes)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: let's talk about leadership - 3/28/2011 5:11:43 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline 		One of the best compliments anyone ever paid me was a few years ago when one of my employees, a 38-year old man, said, "You know, I've been playing sports all my life, and I never understood what it meant to be a part of a team until I worked for you." To me, that was the highest compliment anyone could pay me about my management style, because that's exactly what I try to achieve as a leader. I see my role as a coach, not a boss. And, not surprisingly, that's the kind of leader I prefer to follow myself. 

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RE: let's talk about leadership - 3/28/2011 8:03:37 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		~FR~
I saw a movie called The Emerald Forest (I think) many years ago, and in it the chief of an Amazon tribe gives his theory of what makes a good leader. I can't remember the exact wording, but basically it went like this: The secret to being a successful leader is to never tell people to do something they will not do.

That always sort of struck me as pretty profound.


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RE: let's talk about leadership - 3/28/2011 8:13:59 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		One who gets good results over a significant period of time is a good leader despite his style or if he is liked or disliked by his subordinates.

Butch

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RE: let's talk about leadership - 3/28/2011 8:21:45 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		I prefer a leader who knows what needs to be done and gets it done in whatever means that it takes to get it done.

If it means he has to be loud and abrasive to get others moving then so be it.

If he can get it done by quietly giving out orders or showing others how to do the job then great.

A leader for me is a man who takes the initiative to make sure what needs done gets done and doesn't wait around for others to decide.

He doesn't have any one style. He fits the style to the project at hand.



(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: let's talk about leadership - 3/28/2011 8:40:48 PM   
NocturnalStalker


Posts: 3858
Joined: 12/4/2010
Status: offline 		A leader rules by fear.  

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RE: let's talk about leadership - 3/28/2011 9:00:21 PM   
Muttling


Posts: 1612
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes

Another characteristic I consider important in a leader is that they don't ask or order anyone to do something they wouldn't do themselves.



I very much believe in and did my best to live in this.

(in reply to windchymes)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: let's talk about leadership - 3/28/2011 9:02:16 PM   
Muttling


Posts: 1612
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NocturnalStalker

A leader rules by fear.  



At times this is true, but ruling by fear alone is a poor characteristic of leadership.

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: let's talk about leadership - 3/28/2011 9:15:19 PM   
Muttling


Posts: 1612
Joined: 9/30/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

However.......the OP asked about our personal preferences, not history.

Dumbasses will follow a dumbass.

Contrary to popular belief.......I am no dumbass. I can count on one hand the number of people that I personally believe are good leaders.




I apologize to you and to anyone else who took offense at my response.   This said, I hold 3 college degrees (1 undergrad and 2 at the graduate level) so I take offense at being called a dumbass.

I served for 15 years and I answered the question based on my life experience.   I accept and respect your perspective, please provide me the same level of respect.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: let's talk about leadership - 3/28/2011 9:29:46 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

The douchiness runs high in this thread.


Now it does, yeah.



thank you Panda

i'm loving your avatar btw

needles
Isn't that the coolest? BTW, the Purple Place is Bondagedotcom. It's only a shadow of its former self. The Politics forum was not bad, but it has degenerated, just like CMs has. I only really post seriously on FL. Niel_Bitch has a good group there. He's as much of a Leftie as I am, but we seriously disagree about Israel/Palestinians.

I'm not inclined to be a follower. I'll gladly collaborate, though, and I've been a leader before, owning a popular restaurant here in ATL, and had a following as an "LSD Guru" in my youth. hehehe And once again I completely agree w/ Panda.


< Message edited by Hippiekinkster -- 3/28/2011 9:32:37 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: let's talk about leadership - 3/28/2011 9:44:00 PM   
DMFParadox


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Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes

Another characteristic I consider important in a leader is that they don't ask or order anyone to do something they wouldn't do themselves.


I've always wondered about this.

In one sense, it's true... a leader must understand what they're asking for, and part of understanding is experience. So a McDonald's exec should spend some time on the line now and again.

In another sense it's true, in that if you can't get someone else to fill the job, but it still needs to be done, a good leader won't let things go to shit during a hiring slump. Or a sick day. Sometimes.

But there are senses where it's not true. The easy one to point out is when a leader is simply not capable of doing the job they're asking for. A director/producer setting up a task for their stuntman, for example.

And another, less politically correct sense, where I've seen compelling personalities - truly, leaders - who are so compelling in part because they refuse to do certain things. It's not pretty, but it's effective. Sometimes. And sometimes, it's the most effective approach.

I struggle with this idea, because I too was brought up to believe the most admirable leader is the one who leads from the front. Hard experience has taught me that while they might be the most theoretically admirable leader, they may not be the best one. Or the most admired, for that matter.


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RE: let's talk about leadership - 3/28/2011 9:45:42 PM   
NocturnalStalker


Posts: 3858
Joined: 12/4/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling

quote:

ORIGINAL: NocturnalStalker

A leader rules by fear.  



At times this is true, but ruling by fear alone is a poor characteristic of leadership.



It seems natural that when you invoke fear, the rest all falls into place.


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"The road I walk is paved in gold to glorify my platinum soul."

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: let's talk about leadership - 3/28/2011 9:46:05 PM   
Kaliko


Posts: 3381
Joined: 9/25/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

A true leader is actually a servant. By performing that service well, he derives his true power directly by consent of those who choose to follow.

Nothing less, nothing more.

T^T


Ugh. I just read an entire book, unwillingly, on servant leadership. Yes, seems this is true, though, in reading the book, seems also pretty obvious. Being a servant leader seems to be the equivalent of just not being a dick.

So, I suppose that's the kind of leader I prefer. One who's not a dick. I can't believe they write whole books about how to not be a dick.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: let's talk about leadership - 3/28/2011 9:53:11 PM   
DMFParadox


Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline 		Bunch of books like that out there. I think we need more books on how to be a dick. A dick done right.

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bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: let's talk about leadership - 3/28/2011 10:01:54 PM   
gungadin09


Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

i know alot of people who think they are very good leaders, however, they are not. they are usually bossy or hold a position where other have to do as they say. so like being a manager in a job rold doesn't always mean you're the best manager, thinking you are a good leader just because people do as you say doesn't mean you are good at it.

i think what makes a good leader depends on the situation, as well as *who* they're leading. Certain management styles work better for certain groups, and in certain environments.

i can't abide people who think they are good and always seem to be saying that they are.

i agree that's a red flag. People who constantly talk about how good they are... usually aren't. First rate people emphasize how the team can be better, not how the team (or the leader) is better than everyone else.

those who spout orders and constanyly say things are not right. i prefer someone who is quiet about it and leads by example. someone who if you ask them questions they can tell you exactly what they mean, tell you why and are open to listening.

Well, in my experience, spouting orders and constantly saying things aren't right, is *exactly* what makes a good chef. The tricky part is they can't just be a blowhard. To get away being that much of an asshole, their crew has to *really* respect them. That means, they show up to work on time, they work their ass off, and they demonstrate the same competency and drive that they expect from others. That way, people see them as a leader, and not some asshole on a power trip.

But, yes. A leader has to really listen. They have to be humble enough to learn new things and admit their mistakes. They have to be fair. They have to be willing to teach others what they want them to know. Etc.

i'm happy to lead if i have to, but usually i won't put myself forward to, nore do i want to have to follow someone i don't respect though.

At work, i can be a good follower and a good leader. i like to work in highly structured environments. i think you need that in a kitchen. At school, too. But apart from that, i'm not very structured. i don't have a real assertive, leader type personality outside the kitchen. For work, i'm type a A personality. In my life, i'm type B personality.


so on a personal basis, what sort of leader do you prefer?

i prefer a mother fucking asshole who gets shit done.


pam

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 3/28/2011 10:20:11 PM >

(in reply to needlesandpins)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: let's talk about leadership - 3/29/2011 4:22:52 AM   
needlesandpins


Posts: 3901
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

The douchiness runs high in this thread.


Now it does, yeah.



thank you Panda

i'm loving your avatar btw

needles
Isn't that the coolest? BTW, the Purple Place is Bondagedotcom. It's only a shadow of its former self. The Politics forum was not bad, but it has degenerated, just like CMs has. I only really post seriously on FL. Niel_Bitch has a good group there. He's as much of a Leftie as I am, but we seriously disagree about Israel/Palestinians.

I'm not inclined to be a follower. I'll gladly collaborate, though, and I've been a leader before, owning a popular restaurant here in ATL, and had a following as an "LSD Guru" in my youth. hehehe And once again I completely agree w/ Panda.



it is, it rocks lol, sorry i know, i'll get my coat....

cheers for the info, i shall have a peak at that.

cheers for all the replies guys. for those of you who have/do work in kitchens, can any of you cook me a medium rare steak please. it's damn near blummin impossible to get a steak cooked right where i live. maybe it's a uk thing

needles

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: let's talk about leadership - 3/29/2011 4:53:28 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

However.......the OP asked about our personal preferences, not history.

Dumbasses will follow a dumbass.

Contrary to popular belief.......I am no dumbass. I can count on one hand the number of people that I personally believe are good leaders.




I apologize to you and to anyone else who took offense at my response.   This said, I hold 3 college degrees (1 undergrad and 2 at the graduate level) so I take offense at being called a dumbass.

I served for 15 years and I answered the question based on my life experience.   I accept and respect your perspective, please provide me the same level of respect.




Three degrees and you still do not have reading comprehension down. Why am I not surprised?

I work in Iowa City. Surrounded by dumbasses with degrees. However, if you will go back and actually READ what I wrote, I said nothing about YOU being a dumbass. Trust me, if I was calling you a dumbass, it would have been crystal clear. Example.....I believe you to be a dumbass after your reply to my post. If your tender feelings were hurt by your misinterpretation of my post, I apologize. Calling you a dumbass was not the intent of my original post. My intent was to say that, just because dumbasses follow, does not a great leader make. Especially within the military. After all, once a person has enlisted, they are pretty much committed to following whatever dumbass has higher rank than they.

Served what for 15 years? If you are alluding to military service, trying to impress me, you are barking up the wrong bitch. I've spent the better part of my life around military personnel. That experience alone, only serves to underline my feelings on how rare a really good leader is. Most of the people that gain rank in the military do so by the, shit gets shoved up and out of the way of doing harm, method.

As for respect, I asked you for none and you have not gained any. In my world respect (note: we are NOT discussing courtesy) is earned. It is not given just because you said you want it.

Please feel free to ask me to clarify if there are any misunderstandings in the above post.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: let's talk about leadership - 3/29/2011 5:10:02 AM   
stellauk


Posts: 1360
Status: offline 		A good leader inspires others to follow their example, is prepared to do as much for their subordinates as they expect back, if not more and treats their subordinates as equals with dignity because, you never know, at some point in the future the situation may be reversed.

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Usually when you have all the answers for something nobody is interested in listening.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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