Gun Control is Racist, Sexist & Classist (Full Version)

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Kaledorus -> Gun Control is Racist, Sexist & Classist (1/4/2011 8:17:18 AM)

Professor Cottrol is an African-American who brings a very refreshing insight into the question. This was published in 1999.
A Liberal Democrat's Lament
Gun Control is Racist, Sexist & Classist."
by Robert Cottrol
Certainly one of the chief guarantees of freedom under any government, no matter how popular and respected, is the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms. This is not to say that firearms should not be very carefully used and that definite rules of precaution should not be taught and enforced. But the right of the citizen to bear arms is just one more safeguard against a tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be always possible. —Hubert Humphrey, 1960
quote:

But international comparisons should raise deeper and more disturbing questions, questions too rarely asked in serious company. The central and usually unchallenged premise of the gun control movement is that society becomes more civilized when the citizen surrenders the means of self-defense, leaving the state a monopoly of force. That this premise goes largely unchallenged is the most remarkable feature of our gun control debate. We are ending a century that has repeatedly witnessed the consequences of unchecked state monopolies of force. University of Hawaii political scientist Rudolph J. Rummel, one of the leading students of democide (mass murder of civilian populations by governments), has estimated that nearly 170 million people have been murdered by their own governments in our century. The familiar list of mass murderers– Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot–only scratches the surface. The mass slaughter of helpless, unarmed civilian populations continues to this very day in Sudan, Rwanda, and parts of the former Yugoslavia.




thompsonx -> RE: Gun Control is Racist, Sexist & Classist (1/4/2011 8:23:48 AM)

Gun control means using both hands




rfd1 -> RE: Gun Control is Racist, Sexist & Classist (1/4/2011 10:21:57 AM)

quote:

democide


Lest we forget.
No thugs, no Mafia, could kill like people's own government.
Maybe the Bolshevik mentality is very much alive in today's Western left.




rulemylife -> RE: Gun Control is Racist, Sexist & Classist (1/4/2011 2:36:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rfd1

quote:

democide


Lest we forget.
No thugs, no Mafia, could kill like people's own government.
Maybe the Bolshevik mentality is very much alive in today's Western left.



Lest we forget common sense, if your government wants to kill you they have a slight edge in weaponry.




SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Gun Control is Racist, Sexist & Classist (1/4/2011 4:02:31 PM)

FR

I've said this before (like many things) who's going to come to the defence of government infringements on cultists such as those in Waco? Whenever people rise up against the government they are classed as nuts and the pro gun types look the other way. I'm really curious as to when people will know for sure their government has gone too far, when it brings in congestion charging?

To state that Hitler and his kind succeeded in mass murder simply because civilians didn't have weapons is an inaccurate and offensive oversimplification of history.

The text is an overt attempt to rebrand the anti gun control movement as being inclusive. When you compare how many individuals from minority backgrounds die as the result of guns to others then you can only conclude that guns are one of the most oppressive things ever invented. The minorities kill one another (resulting in them taking up less space in society) and the majority say "oh look gang violence tut tut."




Rule -> RE: Gun Control is Racist, Sexist & Classist (1/4/2011 4:24:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3
I've said this before (like many things) who's going to come to the defense of government infringements on cultists such as those in Waco?

I cannot prove anything, but I am suspicious of that extermination. I suspect that the group that was slaughtered had some sensitive information and was targeted for that reason.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3
To state that Hitler and his kind succeeded in mass murder simply because civilians didn't have weapons is an inaccurate and offensive oversimplification of history.

Not entirely.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3
The text is an overt attempt to re-brand the anti gun control movement as being inclusive. When you compare how many individuals from minority backgrounds die as the result of guns to others then you can only conclude that guns are one of the most oppressive things ever invented. The minorities kill one another (resulting in them taking up less space in society) and the majority say "oh look gang violence tut tut."

Nevertheless, I will choose to suffer a few casualties in a population above having inflicted genocide on said population.




SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Gun Control is Racist, Sexist & Classist (1/4/2011 4:36:14 PM)

Guns will not stop government created genocide these days, I think the technology has moved on (ask Saddam).

It's the ultimate argument that every gun owner uses the one about being able to defend themselves but ultimately a gun is no defence against any kind of ambush. It's a device more suited to the offensive than the defensive. Therefore all things being equal more people will die from being shot out of the blue by them than the number of people saved by having them as a defence. You can't un-invent them but you could make it harder to come by them. Nerve agents: hard to come by, fewer nerve agent related deaths.




PeonForHer -> RE: Gun Control is Racist, Sexist & Classist (1/4/2011 4:37:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

FR

I've said this before (like many things) who's going to come to the defence of government infringements on a cultists such as those in Waco? Whenever people rise up against the government they are classed as nuts and the pro gun types look the other way. I'm really curious as to when people will know for sure their government has gone too far, when it brings in congestion charging?

To state that Hitler and his kind succeeded in mass murder simply because civilians didn't have weapons is an inaccurate and offensive oversimplification of history.

The text is an overt attempt to rebrand the anti gun control movement as being inclusive. When you compare how many individuals from minority backgrounds die as the result of guns to others then you can only conclude that guns are one of the most oppressive things ever invented. The minorities kill one another (resulting in them taking up less space in society) and the majority say "oh look gang violence tut tut."


Thank God for that.  When people have written about guns and freedom on these forums recently, it's often looked as though no historian, no economic, political or social thinker, ever wrote a thing that mattered a damn.  You've pointed to a few time-honoured techniques that rulers have used since the dawn of time in order to make sure that people never taste more than a grain of freedom.




wilddreams17 -> RE: Gun Control is Racist, Sexist & Classist (1/4/2011 4:51:22 PM)

never noticed that the US doesn't need a homicidal government to have the highest rate of homicides worldwide? well maybe these days second to Iraq ...
go on enjoy your right to carry guns and shoot each other the rate you do now ... does anyone really care?




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Gun Control is Racist, Sexist & Classist (1/4/2011 4:57:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wilddreams17

never noticed that the US doesn't need a homicidal government to have the highest rate of homicides worldwide? well maybe these days second to Iraq ...



Uhhhh, try 50th in the world. But why let facts get in the way of being an ass. (Actually far lower than 50th, snce the countries that dont report are generally much higher crime areas than the US)




pahunkboy -> RE: Gun Control is Racist, Sexist & Classist (1/4/2011 5:01:07 PM)

We Americans want nothing but peace, love and understanding.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Gun Control is Racist, Sexist & Classist (1/4/2011 5:02:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

We Americans want nothing but peace, love and understanding.


Horrible song, but true about the vast majority of the US.




Hillwilliam -> RE: Gun Control is Racist, Sexist & Classist (1/4/2011 5:43:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wilddreams17

never noticed that the US doesn't need a homicidal government to have the highest rate of homicides worldwide? well maybe these days second to Iraq ...
go on enjoy your right to carry guns and shoot each other the rate you do now ... does anyone really care?

Sorry sweet cheeks. US doesnt make the top 20.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita




JstAnotherSub -> RE: Gun Control is Racist, Sexist & Classist (1/4/2011 5:47:39 PM)

fast reply

[sm=beatdeadhorse.gif]




gungadin09 -> RE: Gun Control is Racist, Sexist & Classist (1/4/2011 6:42:34 PM)

i think the title of the article should be "OUTLAWING Guns is Racist, Sexist, and Classist".

"gun control" includes laws that:

prohibit children from buying, or carrying guns
prohibit people with serious mental illnesses or developmental disabilities from buying or carrying guns
prohibit drug addicts from buying or carrying guns
prohibit wanted persons from buying or carrying guns
prohibit the person who (legally) owns a semiautomatic rifle from bringing it to work with him/her everyday
prohibit the possession of guns on planes
prohibit individual citizens from posessing fully automatic weapons, bombs, chemical or biological weapons, or nuclear bombs

i think even the staunchest supporter of guns would agree that there needs to be SOME form of gun control.

pam




FirmhandKY -> RE: Gun Control is Racist, Sexist & Classist (1/4/2011 7:37:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09

i think the title of the article should be "OUTLAWING Guns is Racist, Sexist, and Classist".

"gun control" includes laws that:

prohibit children from buying, or carrying guns
prohibit people with serious mental illnesses or developmental disabilities from buying or carrying guns
prohibit drug addicts from buying or carrying guns
prohibit wanted persons from buying or carrying guns
prohibit the person who (legally) owns a semiautomatic rifle from bringing it to work with him/her everyday
prohibit the possession of guns on planes
prohibit individual citizens from posessing fully automatic weapons, bombs, chemical or biological weapons, or nuclear bombs

i think even the staunchest supporter of guns would agree that there needs to be SOME form of gun control.


prohibit children from buying, or carrying guns
Nope.  Disagree.

prohibit people with serious mental illnesses or developmental disabilities from buying or carrying guns
Partial agree.  Only people with "serious mental illnesses" and parts of that are debatable.

prohibit drug addicts from buying or carrying guns
hmmm, not so sure.

prohibit wanted persons from buying or carrying guns
Depends.  Probably disagree.

prohibit the person who (legally) owns a semiautomatic rifle from bringing it to work with him/her everyday
Bull.  Why?

prohibit the possession of guns on planes
Do not agree.

prohibit individual citizens from posessing fully automatic weapons, bombs, chemical or biological weapons, or nuclear bombs
hmmm.  Debatable. Maybe bio weapons.

Firm




FirmhandKY -> RE: Gun Control is Racist, Sexist & Classist (1/4/2011 7:40:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

FR

I've said this before (like many things) who's going to come to the defence of government infringements on a cultists such as those in Waco? Whenever people rise up against the government they are classed as nuts and the pro gun types look the other way. I'm really curious as to when people will know for sure their government has gone too far, when it brings in congestion charging?

To state that Hitler and his kind succeeded in mass murder simply because civilians didn't have weapons is an inaccurate and offensive oversimplification of history.

The text is an overt attempt to rebrand the anti gun control movement as being inclusive. When you compare how many individuals from minority backgrounds die as the result of guns to others then you can only conclude that guns are one of the most oppressive things ever invented. The minorities kill one another (resulting in them taking up less space in society) and the majority say "oh look gang violence tut tut."


Thank God for that.  When people have written about guns and freedom on these forums recently, it's often looked as though no historian, no economic, political or social thinker, ever wrote a thing that mattered a damn.  You've pointed to a few time-honoured techniques that rulers have used since the dawn of time in order to make sure that people never taste more than a grain of freedom.

I think if the Jews had a few more personal firearms during the Warsaw Ghetto uprising, then the Nazis might have delayed, or thought harder about decimating them.

On 19th April 1943 the Waffen SS entered the Warsaw ghetto. Although they only had two machine-guns, fifteen rifles and 500 pistols, the Jews opened fire on the soldiers. They also attacked them with grenades and petrol bombs. The Germans took heavy casualties and the Warsaw military commander, Brigadier-General Jürgen Stroop, ordered his men to retreat. He then gave instructions for all the buildings in the ghetto to be set on fire.
Firm




tweakabelle -> RE: Gun Control is Racist, Sexist & Classist (1/5/2011 1:43:12 AM)

quote:



ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

We Americans want nothing but peace, love and understanding.




gee! You're a closet hippie! Well I never would have guessed! [:D]




lovmuffin -> RE: Gun Control is Racist, Sexist & Classist (1/5/2011 6:03:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3



It's the ultimate argument that every gun owner uses the one about being able to defend themselves but ultimately a gun is no defence against any kind of ambush. It's a device more suited to the offensive than the defensive. Therefore all things being equal more people will die from being shot out of the blue by them than the number of people saved by having them as a defence.






I can see how you might think that but in real life it just isn't so. In order for defense with a firearm to work out, generally a handgun, one has to be aware their surroundings and to be aware of what is going on around you. If something looks fishy prepare to react or change your direction to avoid any possible danger.  It's what we gun toters call a proper mindset. In the real world, thugs won't likely just jump out of the bushes to ambush you, though if it's dark out and you are walking by bushes then by all means be ready to react or better yet don't walk somewhere you can be easily ambushed. If one of those mass murdering idiots with a semi automatic or what ever comes in shooting up the place, if you're armed then at least your not a sitting duck.




rulemylife -> RE: Gun Control is Racist, Sexist & Classist (1/5/2011 11:18:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: wilddreams17

never noticed that the US doesn't need a homicidal government to have the highest rate of homicides worldwide? well maybe these days second to Iraq ...



Uhhhh, try 50th in the world. But why let facts get in the way of being an ass. (Actually far lower than 50th, snce the countries that dont report are generally much higher crime areas than the US)


I don't know Willbeur, you certainly never let facts get in your way.

You just make things up.




Murders (most recent) by country


# 5   United States: 16,204



United States


[image]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Homicide_rate2004.svg/400px-Homicide_rate2004.svg.png[/image]




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