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Odd Question: Therapy Dogs who aren't.... - 12/13/2010 8:36:03 PM

eleanorr

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I now know three human beings who have done the bare minimum to get their dog qualified as a "therapy dog" or "service animal" so that they could have their dog with them in airports, on public transport and in restaurants, etc... In no case are these actual guide animals.

What do you think?

Is it a great thing that people who really want to be that close to their animals can do it... or is it making a mockery of the program?

ER

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RE: Odd Question: Therapy Dogs who aren't.... - 12/14/2010 7:12:27 AM

tiggerspoohbear

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If they don't have a personal reason, be it physical or emotional, then they have no right to get their pets registered as therapy dogs. The same goes if they're not using the training the dog was given to actually help out the people who benefit so much from this type of help. It's also an insult to the dog, IMO, who was been trained and would do so much good and by extent feel happy about being surrounded by people who need the therapy to help them cope with their problems.

It's been proven time and time again that some people relate better to animals since they know it's unconditional love and they won't be judged. Just the attention and the love they require, no matter if family is supportive or not. There's just a difference petting or holding an animal that can put one at peace when nothing else may work.

I look at it like someone getting a handicapped sticker just because they're too lazy to walk the distance if they can't find a parking spot right next to where they want to go.

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RE: Odd Question: Therapy Dogs who aren't.... - 12/14/2010 7:20:29 AM

DarkSteven

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I used to be active on a landlord board. There were numerous landlords that refused to take people with pets due to the damage the pets could cause. They were furious that they were powerless to block animals once they were considered "service animals", and that there was no way of certifying that those animals genuinely WERE service animals. There was a new classification called "comfort animals", which was a subgroup of service animals that provided emotional comfort - i.e., pets.

I'm against this. If a business owner chooses to not allow pets, he or she has reasons. To force pets on them anyway is just wrong. That said, the local Home Depot allows dogs and I get a kick out of them being there, and they're always well behaved.

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RE: Odd Question: Therapy Dogs who aren't.... - 12/14/2010 7:31:21 AM

LadyConstanze

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quote:

ORIGINAL: eleanorr

I now know three human beings who have done the bare minimum to get their dog qualified as a "therapy dog" or "service animal" so that they could have their dog with them in airports, on public transport and in restaurants, etc... In no case are these actual guide animals.

What do you think?

Is it a great thing that people who really want to be that close to their animals can do it... or is it making a mockery of the program?

ER

I find it a bit of a mockery to be honest, but I have to admit that on occasion (like when going for a coffee and sitting outside in the cold English weather - almost said winter but that would exclude spring and autumn), hands glued to the cup to stop them from freezing off, that I entertained the thought of wearing dark glasses, a badge and giving my dog a harness that would indicate she's a blind dog, just to be where it's nice and warm...

In all honesty, I understand that people with guide dogs want to go to the same places as others do and not be discriminated for their handycaps, but on the other hand, from a hygiene point of view, will a blind dog be more hygienic than any other dog? So the whole thing doesn't make all that much sense, I believe the reason they keep them out is health and safety around food, dog hair and all that, well, if a dog hair finds its way into the soup or the coffee, it's not going to have a badge saying "guide dog hair".

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RE: Odd Question: Therapy Dogs who aren't.... - 12/14/2010 7:36:18 AM

chiaThePet

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Never works for me. Legitimate qualification or not.

Every time my Dominants take me into Denny's, the hostess starts screaming,

"Get that thing the hell out of here, you're scaring the children"!

(I would venture that those whom do the qualifying need to enforce the standards)

chia* (the pet)

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RE: Odd Question: Therapy Dogs who aren't.... - 12/14/2010 8:00:23 AM

Termyn8or

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Hmmmm, as a potential landlord this caught my attention. The deal is no pets. I guess I would have to rephrase that to no animals. Sorry, but that's the way it is. If the law doesn't allow that exclusion it's simple anyway, the rent is double. My sister has that apartment at the moment and she doesn't bring animals because it has new carpet. She has three or four cats, but they stay at her other place.

I hate to be like this on the subject but a whole lot of people leave after burning their deposit up, leaving nothing for carpet, repairs etc. Maybe I'm a prick but business is business.

In another business I wouldn't mind people bringing a dog (or maybe something else even) as long as they don't bother anyone or make a mess.

A friend has a service dog. She has back problems and sometimes "locks up" because of some nerve issue or something in her spine. The dog was trained by a friend of her's and probably doesn't have actual documentation. But he can actually jump up and turn a light on or off, and ring the doorbell. Some other thinds I'm not sure... In her case it doesn't matter anyway because I won't rent to anyone I know.

T

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RE: Odd Question: Therapy Dogs who aren't.... - 12/14/2010 8:05:19 AM

DarkSteven

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Termy, I advise you against being a landlord if you think that you can trump the law. There is a site called www.mrlandlord.com that will give you insight.

If you say "No animals, including service animals", you will get sued. If you say "You can have animals but then the rent doubles", you will get sued.

Renting to people you know can cause issues - I've done it twice and in both cases lost a friend and money.

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: Odd Question: Therapy Dogs who aren't.... - 12/14/2010 8:07:52 AM

LaTigresse

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My mother has done what DS mentioned. It was her sneaky way of forcing her landlord to allow her to have her pets. Knowing her, and how she lives, I don't think she should have ANY animals.

Do I think the OP makes a mockery of service animals....maybe. Being an animal lover (I hope I love them given the crew I have) I do have to ask if a physical need is more important than an emotional need........just because there is a diagnosis and proper paperwork filled out does a physical need outweigh the importance of someone's emotional need?

It's a slippery slope and while I am quite certain there are abuses, I cannot really pass a blanket judgment on everyone that tweaks the system.

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RE: Odd Question: Therapy Dogs who aren't.... - 12/14/2010 8:16:27 AM

LadyConstanze

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Termy, I advise you against being a landlord if you think that you can trump the law. There is a site called www.mrlandlord.com that will give you insight.

If you say "No animals, including service animals", you will get sued. If you say "You can have animals but then the rent doubles", you will get sued.

Renting to people you know can cause issues - I've done it twice and in both cases lost a friend and money.

Ways around it I would think, like not mentioning the price but asking people to fill out something that also indicates how many pets they have, then you can decide not to rent to them or charge a higher rent...

I agree with the renting to friends, we rent the other house to friends, well, it's OK and they look well after it, but it's a bit annoying that because you are friends you have to understand why their payments are late, etc. Sure you do understand but still, being friends is one thing, a business deal is another one, and they're paying 1/3rd less than the market value because they are friends, have a child that wasn't planned, needed a place, he's a really good friend... Still, sometimes I wonder if it wasn't a mistake....

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RE: Odd Question: Therapy Dogs who aren't.... - 12/14/2010 8:17:39 AM

LaTigresse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Termy, I advise you against being a landlord if you think that you can trump the law. There is a site called www.mrlandlord.com that will give you insight.

If you say "No animals, including service animals", you will get sued. If you say "You can have animals but then the rent doubles", you will get sued.

Renting to people you know can cause issues - I've done it twice and in both cases lost a friend and money.

I cannot emphasis the above bolded part enough.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 12/14/2010 8:19:36 AM >

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Odd Question: Therapy Dogs who aren't.... - 12/14/2010 8:39:46 AM

LadyHibiscus

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A big leader dog school is in my town. I am all for dogs for the blind, or for folks who are wheeling, who NEED that animal for normal mobility. Service dogs sit at their owner's feet they do not wander about shedding when they are not working.

I don't feel the same about "comfort animals", though I do have sympathy for those with anxiety disorders. I would love to take my parrot everywhere, we would both feel better, but I am not about to subject the world to flapping and poop.

As a former landlord, I have dealt with folks who lied about pets. Who knew catz could claw into drywall? Yay for security deposits. If a person wanted to rent from me with a service animal, I would want a doctor's letter certifying the need, if a person was not blind. If it was a monkey,extra security deposit, they can be extra stinky.

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RE: Odd Question: Therapy Dogs who aren't.... - 12/14/2010 8:50:35 AM

Termyn8or

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Ditto on renting to friends. Did that once - ONCE. Never again.

The law in this area used to be only if you had four or more units, but that may have changed. Also, though it may have changed, if I rent half my double and live in the other half I can absolutely pick and choose. At least the way it was I could refuse to rent that suite to anyone for any reason, any reason at all. That even means race, religion whatever, even if I don't like their shoes. That may not be how it is now though. That wouldn't be an issue though, the color of money is what matters. Religion ? Just tithe me that rent every month.

But the OP seems to be more focussed on things like getting on a plane. Of course you wouldn't prohibit a blind person from taking their seeing eye dog on the plane. I knew a deaf Woman who had a hearing ear dog. There was no training but the lil yapper slept on her bed and would wake up and get her attention if there was any noise. Like [he'd] run to the door if someone knocked. Actually she'd be a really good tenant, her house was always practically spotless and she's retired with a secure income. Being deaf I could utilize my watts. (stereo) Wouldn't bother her, well maybe if the bass got too heavy and really shook the place. Maybe not.

So just allow pets on planes, busses, cabs ? How about limos ? Maybe that's how it should be, but there would be some problems along the way. Let a junkyard dog in a 14 seat Escalade streetch ? Dunno about that.

T

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RE: Odd Question: Therapy Dogs who aren't.... - 12/14/2010 8:53:10 AM

windchymes

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You CAN charge "pet deposits" along with the regular security deposit, which can be rated according to the size of the dog. I paid $200 +$25/month more for my little dog, large dogs were $500 +$40, and I've seen them as high as $800, all non-refundable. And people pay them.

Of course, the laws probably vary from state to state, but I'm pretty sure that's reasonable and legal just about anywhere.

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RE: Odd Question: Therapy Dogs who aren't.... - 12/14/2010 9:05:02 AM

LadyConstanze

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

A big leader dog school is in my town. I am all for dogs for the blind, or for folks who are wheeling, who NEED that animal for normal mobility. Service dogs sit at their owner's feet they do not wander about shedding when they are not working.

Unless we are in "her" pub where the landlord loves her so much that he asks me to take her off the lead so she can greet people (works really well for him, he got a pub with a bad reputation and turned it around 100%, sometimes the previous clientel tries to come in and a big black dog standing next to the owner tends to encourage them to move on without discussion or trouble) she is on the lead and doesn't wander about, she wants to sit under the table. And as a dobe she's less hairy than the labs that are usually used as blind dogs...

Hmmm must look into what it takes to claim a dog is a service animal...

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RE: Odd Question: Therapy Dogs who aren't.... - 12/14/2010 10:17:06 AM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: eleanorr

Is it a great thing that people who really want to be that close to their animals can do it... or is it making a mockery of the program?

Mockery of the program. These animals don't behave as service animals, are going to give service animals a bad name, pee on the floors, get anxious and destroy furniture. I first read about this years ago and the "service animal" in question was a dog who ate from the table in a restaurant - not on command by the way.

If this trend continues, businesses will have no choice but to either attempt to get around allowing service animals in their establishments or figure out a way to allow some and not all. The people doing this are, IHMO, disgusting and selfish as their actions could have untold consequences for the people who actually need service animals.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 12/14/2010 10:18:09 AM >

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RE: Odd Question: Therapy Dogs who aren't.... - 12/14/2010 10:17:36 AM

ricken

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I don't think thats right, if the therapy/service animal is really used as such then they belong in public places with the owners, those animals form bonds with the owners and also serve as "pets"
But pets do not perform the same function as working animals and passing them off as such IMO does a bad thing for the real working animals.
I find those little dogs in a handbag in grocery stores disgusting, they don't just belong there.

Also as far as renting,I believe there is a little more choice who you rent to IF it's an owner occupied building here(I think 6 units or less) you can say, "I just don't like that person and don't think we will get along." You can't not rent to a person with a service dog, because of the service dog, but you could say "I don't like that person"

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RE: Odd Question: Therapy Dogs who aren't.... - 12/14/2010 10:22:52 AM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

In all honesty, I understand that people with guide dogs want to go to the same places as others do and not be discriminated for their handycaps, but on the other hand, from a hygiene point of view, will a blind dog be more hygienic than any other dog? So the whole thing doesn't make all that much sense, I believe the reason they keep them out is health and safety around food, dog hair and all that, well, if a dog hair finds its way into the soup or the coffee, it's not going to have a badge saying "guide dog hair".

Actually yes. Guide dogs are far more trained than an animal who has received the 'bare minimum'. And many of the fake service animals don't get that. You slap a service animal vest on an untrained dog and most people aren't going to question you - and they aren't hard to get or fake. So the dog could well be completely unsuitable for being brought inside. A guide dog has received extensive training to be sure they won't piddle and crap inside but will let their human know they have to go outside.

A dog with just the 'bare minimum' or who has just had a service vest strapped onto them... not so much. I realize that some people have non-service animals that are very well-trained to go out in public. But there are a great many more, IHMO, who haven't.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 12/14/2010 10:23:37 AM >

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RE: Odd Question: Therapy Dogs who aren't.... - 12/14/2010 10:36:44 AM

Termyn8or

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I figured this could open a can of worms. Do we then judge the animal ? Maybe there is some way to tell rather than paperwork.

My buddy used to take his dog to concerts. He was very well trained and highly socialized. (I mean the dog lol) Nobody had a problem with it but that was many years ago. I wouldn't try that now. It's geting to the point where they'll strip search you to get in anywhere.

T

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RE: Odd Question: Therapy Dogs who aren't.... - 12/14/2010 10:36:51 AM

LadyConstanze

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

In all honesty, I understand that people with guide dogs want to go to the same places as others do and not be discriminated for their handycaps, but on the other hand, from a hygiene point of view, will a blind dog be more hygienic than any other dog? So the whole thing doesn't make all that much sense, I believe the reason they keep them out is health and safety around food, dog hair and all that, well, if a dog hair finds its way into the soup or the coffee, it's not going to have a badge saying "guide dog hair".

Actually yes. Guide dogs are far more trained than an animal who has received the 'bare minimum'. And many of the fake service animals don't get that. You slap a service animal vest on an untrained dog and most people aren't going to question you - and they aren't hard to get or fake. So the dog could well be completely unsuitable for being brought inside. A guide dog has received extensive training to be sure they won't piddle and crap inside but will let their human know they have to go outside.

A dog with just the 'bare minimum' or who has just had a service vest strapped onto them... not so much. I realize that some people have non-service animals that are very well-trained to go out in public. But there are a great many more, IHMO, who haven't.

I would think anybody with a dog had trained their dog well enough so it won't piddle or crap inside, it doesn't require much training as they are rather clean animals who don't want to foul up their space. I had to clean pee and poo up from my dog when she was sick and I was asleep at night and she couldn't wake me as she's not allowed in the bedroom, but even then she went to the garage and near the door.

I consider my dog not particularly well trained, she does a few tricks, listens to commands (usual stuff, sit, down, heel, fetch, drop, on your back, roll over...) which I think is the minimum dogs should have, we add something new each week or else she'd be bored and heaven help her if she'd help herself to food from the table or take food without being told that she can eat...

I'm the pack leader, not the bitch of my bitch... A dog needs structure and hierarchy or else they are on edge because they are trying to figure out their place.

Maybe I'm spoiled but in Europe most people who have dogs that are above rat size train their dogs as they are liable for them and dogs get put down far too easily, mostly not their faults but faults the owners make by not training them well enough. I'd often think it would be better if the owners would be put down or get a shock collar instead of the dogs... (mind you shock collars are illegal here)

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

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Post #: 19

RE: Odd Question: Therapy Dogs who aren't.... - 12/14/2010 11:02:23 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

Maybe I'm spoiled but in Europe most people who have dogs that are above rat size train their dogs as they are liable for them and dogs get put down far too easily, mostly not their faults but faults the owners make by not training them well enough. I'd often think it would be better if the owners would be put down or get a shock collar instead of the dogs... (mind you shock collars are illegal here)

Maybe you are spoiled.

However the articles I've read about people who do this are about people whose dogs are not properly trained to be out and about as a service animal would be. There is a huge difference between a well-behaved dog in your home, at the park, on walks, etc and an animal handling the hustle and bustle of being on a train, at an airport, sitting quietly under the table for hours at a five star restaurant, being unflappable in new situations.

Not every dog can be a service dog. And those who aren't shouldn't have owners who want to pretend they are. Self-centered people with untrained animals are going to ruin it for those who do need these highly trained animals.

I don't see any difference between this and faking a handicapped parking tag. I'm allergic to the cold - I swell up, I have trouble breathing and get welts on exposed skin in the cold. I could certainly make use of a little tag saying I get to park close to the stores but people would still condemn me if I faked one. How is the trickery any better cause someone wants to be near their dog?

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 12/14/2010 11:23:37 AM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

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