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RE: Odd Question: Therapy Dogs who aren't.... - 12/14/2010 11:02:52 AM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eleanorr

I now know three human beings who have done the bare minimum to get their dog qualified as a "therapy dog" or "service animal" so that they could have their dog with them in airports, on public transport and in restaurants, etc... In no case are these actual guide animals.

What do you think?

Is it a great thing that people who really want to be that close to their animals can do it...  or is it making a mockery of the program?

It's making a mockery of the programme and, if it causes people like landlords to then quietly discriminate against genuine instances, like guide dogs, then it's having a very negative effect.

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RE: Odd Question: Therapy Dogs who aren't.... - 12/14/2010 1:58:56 PM   
kinkbound


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I used to be active on a landlord board.  There were numerous landlords that refused to take people with pets due to the damage the pets could cause.  They were furious that they were powerless to block animals once they were considered "service animals", and that there was no way of certifying that those animals genuinely WERE service animals.  There was a new classification called "comfort animals", which was a subgroup of service animals that provided emotional comfort - i.e., pets.

I'm against this.  If a business owner chooses to not allow pets, he or she has reasons.  To force pets on them anyway is just wrong.  That said, the local Home Depot allows dogs and I get a kick out of them being there, and they're always well behaved.



I agree.

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RE: Odd Question: Therapy Dogs who aren't.... - 12/14/2010 4:46:20 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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Status: offline 		Here in the US, fewer and fewer dogs are properly trained. (It's that same population that don't train their children...)

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RE: Odd Question: Therapy Dogs who aren't.... - 12/14/2010 4:49:15 PM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
Here in the US, fewer and fewer dogs are properly trained.

That's also true in the UK, sadly.

There's also the numbers of what I term "moron dogs"; i.e. dogs kept as macho status symbols, rather than domestic pets, and often (though of course not always) with little or no training.

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RE: Odd Question: Therapy Dogs who aren't.... - 12/14/2010 4:55:53 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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Status: offline 		Oh don't I know it! The number of inappropriately chosen dogs is disgraceful.

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RE: Odd Question: Therapy Dogs who aren't.... - 12/14/2010 5:16:21 PM   
LadyConstanze


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Here in the US, fewer and fewer dogs are properly trained. (It's that same population that don't train their children...)


We call them CHAVs (Council Housed And Violent) you call them trailer trash, but you get the idea...

Though not completely true, one of our neighbours has 2 Yorkies, always with the proper sweaters and stuff (ewww) and they haven't trained them at all, carry them around on their arms like babies, so the dogs think they are above humans, they come through the fences into our garden, came in through our catflap (changed that to one that only opens to the chips the cats have to keep them out) and peed around in our house as they fancied Kia (she's neutered but on hormones so she smells desirable to male dogs and of course the little yappers are not castrated), tried to chase my cats though the cats let them have it. Owner complained as she needs more therapy sessions for the dogs... Hold on, dogs come on my property and chase my cats, my cats beat them up and they complain that their dogs are a bit spooked out...

A small dog possibly can't do much harm (I think my pet rat could bit worse) but still, they're freaking dogs, they don't need a shrink, they need some damned TRAINING, they think they are in command that's why they don't listen....

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RE: Odd Question: Therapy Dogs who aren't.... - 12/14/2010 7:05:32 PM   
DesFIP


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Status: offline 		Therapy dogs don't have to mean seeing eye dogs. They can be essential in calming people with mental and emotional issues. The fact that you wouldn't see the problem doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

For children with severe mental problems, an animal has been the first time anyone got through to them. My daughter's first horse is a therapeutic horse, but of course, we didn't bring him into a coffee shop. However he was still instrumental in saving her life at a time when there was no medication for her illness.


< Message edited by DesFIP -- 12/14/2010 7:13:17 PM >

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RE: Odd Question: Therapy Dogs who aren't.... - 12/14/2010 7:18:37 PM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
Therapy dogs don't have to mean seeing eye dogs. They can be essential in calming people with mental and emotional issues. The fact that you wouldn't see the problem doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

For children with severe mental problems, an animal has been the first time anyone got through to them. My daughter's first horse is a therapeutic horse, but of course, we didn't bring him into a coffee shop. However he was still instrumental in saving her life at a time when there was no medication for her illness.

I personally wouldn't object to a genuinely "therapeutic" animal, but the implication in the OP was (I think) that people were using the guise of "therapeutic animal" to get their perfectly ordinary pets into properties and places where they might otherwise have been reasonably excluded. At least that's how I read it, but of course I could well be wrong.

And if that is the case then it’s very poor behaviour, and they want shoeing, soonest*.

* the owner, not the pet, obviously; it's hardly their fault.

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RE: Odd Question: Therapy Dogs who aren't.... - 12/14/2010 7:24:54 PM   
Renee7852


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Status: offline 		Unfortunately in the US there are currently no ]mandatory Service Dog Registries.  There is a site you can go to if you wish to register your dog and it will receive a number and a badge; but as this is not a mandatory requirement they have no way to check up and verify if the dog is indeed a trained service dog.  Also, keep in mind, due to hyppa laws you cannot ask someone what their disability is and why they require the services of a dog.  True service dogs are very welll trained and focused on their "job" and their person.  It is usually easy to spot the imposters.  Two days ago I was in the grocery store and in front of me in line was a woman w/ a pit bull wearing a service dog vest.  Most organizations stay away from pits.  When asked what organization she obtained the dog from there was a long pause and some mumbling, finally a name was given and I was told "but there is a 7 to 10 year wait".  I guess she thought if I were going to look them up that lengthly wait would discourage me. 
             In general, ALL dogs should be trained to perform basic obedience and have manners if they are to be in public.  Being a professional trainer since 1977 I too often see the end results of the non trained, obnoxious dogs ...and generally end up with the dogs whose owners couldn't be bothered to train  and they <dogs> end up with me just before euthanasia.  Sad.

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RE: Odd Question: Therapy Dogs who aren't.... - 12/14/2010 8:06:33 PM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
Here in the US, fewer and fewer dogs are properly trained.

That's also true in the UK, sadly.

There's also the numbers of what I term "moron dogs"; i.e. dogs kept as macho status symbols, rather than domestic pets, and often (though of course not always) with little or no training.



The show "It's me or the Dog" where a dogs have gotten so out of hand that one partner is threatening to leave if a trainer can't whip the dog into shape did start in the UK...

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
Therapy dogs don't have to mean seeing eye dogs. They can be essential in calming people with mental and emotional issues. The fact that you wouldn't see the problem doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

For children with severe mental problems, an animal has been the first time anyone got through to them. My daughter's first horse is a therapeutic horse, but of course, we didn't bring him into a coffee shop. However he was still instrumental in saving her life at a time when there was no medication for her illness.

That's true. But does not diminish the issue of people who are faking service vests or putting them on untrained dogs. In fact, it actually makes the situation for people where the issue isn't evident.

Barely trained or completely untrained pets wearing undeserved service vests will not behave as service animals. They will cause problems. This will make people more and more wary and suspicious of anyone with a service animal who doesn't obviously need one.


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RE: Odd Question: Therapy Dogs who aren't.... - 12/14/2010 8:06:56 PM   
LadyConstanze


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Status: offline 		The service dogs I've seen (mostly blind dogs) are amazing, placid, not phased by anything, they don't even look around, pretty hard to fake that for your regular dog, no matter how well behaved.

Don't think the dogs are obnoxious, the owners are for lack of being responsible and in a lot of cases I would think the world would be a nicer place if the owners would be put down. On the other hand you also have the "big black dog" syndrome as my vet calls it, with a big black dog, no matter how placid, a lot of drunk idiots seem to feel the need to show how macho they are by trying to wind the dog up.

With xmas coming, I wonder how many people will get a cute puppy as a "present" and not train it, or lose interest when cute puppy is a fully grown dog and needs walks, exercise and training, or beware they're going on vacation an have to pay kennels, or the vet....

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RE: Odd Question: Therapy Dogs who aren't.... - 12/14/2010 8:14:43 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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Status: offline 		Celeste, I absolutely believe in the value of animals as therapy!

Lady C, I was thinking of the yuppies who think saying no to their child is hampering their development--the same folks who don't say no to their dogs, because their dogs are kids, right?

Those dog training shows slay me. Sure, buy a pit or an amstaff and don't exercise it! Be surprised when it gets frustrated nd aggressive! Morons.

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RE: Odd Question: Therapy Dogs who aren't.... - 12/14/2010 8:30:28 PM   
LadyConstanze


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Status: offline 		Lady Hib, I feel so unhip and backwards, my dog doesn't see a shrink and I "bully" her randomly by chasing her off the place she picked to make herself comfy, strangely enough ever since I do that she's so much more obedient because it gets reinforced that I'm her pack leader, she doesn't think to challenge me or climb up the pack rank. I don't want roughly 90 lbs of dog being out of control.

Drives me nuts if people think they need to show their love for their dogs by giving them exactly the wrong treatment and confusing the poor critters. The amounts of time when somebody with a little yappy dog has told me that I'm "mean" to my dog if I take her toy away because she refused to follow a command. She's not a show dog by any means, but she's a controlled dog and the cats bully her even worse and she loves them. I think she obeys a cat command to open a door for them a lot quicker than mine to drop something, but then cat bottoms also seem to smell much more interesting...

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RE: Odd Question: Therapy Dogs who aren't.... - 12/14/2010 8:31:34 PM   
AAkasha


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I was on a flight recently in a city where a dog show/dog agility show had been going on. In addition to the 4 - 6 dogs in carriers being checked into the luggage area, we found another half dozen dogs of all breeds wearing service jackets and in the airline cabin riding on laps and under the seats. Collies, poodles, yorkies, you name it.  The whole plane was full of people who looked like they stepped off the movie "Best in Show."  One of the stewardesses asked one of the passengers, "Why are there so many service dogs on this flight?" and a bunch of the passengers started giggling like it was a massive inside joke - some comments were made about how"alllll these dogs are therapy dogs, doncha know?"

One of the passengers explained in her case she had a doctor's note. I think that's how most people get their personal dogs or show dogs cleared for public transportation - they get a doctor to write a note saying the dog is required for the person's wellbeing, and that can include "general anxiety."  I believe the dogs still need to complete a "good canine citizen" test.  All the dogs on the plane were fine - no barking, no messes.  Personally I don't care - I love dogs and can understand not wanting to put them in the cargo hold of the plane.

At the same time, as volunteer with a legitimate service dog association and someone who frequently has a legitimate service dog in tow for training purposes, it makes the job of legitimate folks harder if people just slap custom jackets on dogs and claim they are service dogs and these dogs misbehave or poorly represent service dogs overall.  In that case, it's a bummer.

As a reminder to all, if you see a dog in a service jacket, do not walk up and pet or touch it. Even if it's a dog in training.  Always check with the owner first before initiating contact with a working dog, as these animals are doing a job.

Akasha


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RE: Odd Question: Therapy Dogs who aren't.... - 12/15/2010 12:58:03 PM   
Toppingfrmbottom


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Status: offline 		Steven I think it's funny to watch some of these gentle giant doggies I have seen at. HD trying to maintain thair footing when sitting because the floors just a bit to slick and their paws slide. Some wise up real fast and lay down and some keep "skating"
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
  That said, the local Home Depot allows dogs and I get a kick out of them being there, and they're always well behaved.



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