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RE: Fear.... outside of the play - 12/10/2010 9:11:14 PM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: petmonkey

add: i wasn't on these boards when the mods changed policy, kind of curious what you're referring to--another thread?

I'm not sure what they are referring to either. Unless they are an old user on a new nick (apologies if you are Carpe) they joined this year.

In the five years I've been here, the moderation has gone through cycles. For awhile it was a lot more intense than it is now - and before that it was pretty lax. We got away with deliberate hijacks pretty frequently. There were some people banned who have now returned. And a lot of people really love that those people have come back. That might be what they are talking about but that is pretty old news by now.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 12/10/2010 9:12:18 PM >

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Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

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(in reply to petmonkey)

Post #: 21

RE: Fear.... outside of the play - 12/10/2010 10:24:05 PM

CarpeComa

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

This makes no sense to me. I respect Teddy Roosevelt but he's dead so I really have no reason to fear him - short of a zombie flick come true.

I respect Valyraen because I don't have to be afraid of him. Because I don't have to be afraid of his punishments. Because he is one of the few men... one of the few people who just love me as me. Who loves me despite my numerous fuck-ups and because I don't have to be scared of him leaving me.

If I fuck up, there are consequences. But not every consequence is something to be afraid of. Unpleasant yes, might even make me cry. So I have concern certainly. But that is different than fear.

You did just note earlier in the thread that one of the problems you have been working on is having too much fear, too much anxiety. There is a balance to be struck. One of the difficulties that pervades this subject is that most people hear or read 'fear', they tend to of something akin to terror and so hate it when a dictionary gets quoted. When people say they didn't do something out of fear of the consequence(s), do they mean that they were cowering or terrified of what would happened? They could, but most often not. What about when someone goes "I was afraid that would happen"? You have used several words which are synonyms to fear by definition or context (like apprehension and concern) about your feelings towards consequences. You are on the track to the same idea, you seem to primarily being repulsed by the particular word of choice. This is understandable considering the aforementioned areas which you are working on.

quote:

For others, yeah sure go for it. But to imply that those of us who have no additional/created fear in our relationships also have no respect... I don't get it.

I didn't say additional or created fear. I said no fear at all.

< Message edited by CarpeComa -- 12/10/2010 10:29:23 PM >

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Post #: 22

RE: Fear.... outside of the play - 12/10/2010 10:28:02 PM

CarpeComa

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Joined: 5/12/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: petmonkey

add: i wasn't on these boards when the mods changed policy, kind of curious what you're referring to--another thread?

I'm not sure what they are referring to either. Unless they are an old user on a new nick (apologies if you are Carpe) they joined this year.

In the five years I've been here, the moderation has gone through cycles. For awhile it was a lot more intense than it is now - and before that it was pretty lax. We got away with deliberate hijacks pretty frequently. There were some people banned who have now returned. And a lot of people really love that those people have come back. That might be what they are talking about but that is pretty old news by now.

I'm an old user on a new nick. First joined in June of '07.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 23

RE: Fear.... outside of the play - 12/10/2010 10:37:00 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CarpeComa

You did just note earlier in the thread that one of the problems you have been working on is having too much fear, too much anxiety.

Yes I did. But none of those fears involve Val so they aren't relevant to the idea that I should fear him/consquences in my relationship - simply explaining that this practice does not suit in a relationship with me because one of my main goals is to reduce my overall fears, not increase them.

quote:

There is a balance to be struck. One of the difficulties that pervades this subject is that most people hear or read 'fear', they tend to of something akin to terror and so hate it when a dictionary gets quoted. When people say they didn't do something out of fear of the consequence(s), do they mean that they were cowering or terrified of what would happened? They could, but most often not. What about when someone goes "I was afraid that would happen"? You have used several words which are synonyms to fear by definition or context (like apprehension and concern) about your feelings towards consequences. You are on the track to the same idea, you seem to primarily being repulsed by the particular word of choice. This is understandable considering the aforementioned areas which you are working on.

Actually... no. Since you mention people quoting the dictionary:

Concern: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/concern

quote:

transitive verb1 a : to relate to : be about <the novel concerns three soldiers> b : to bear on 2 : to have an influence on : involve; also : to be the business or affair of <the problem concerns us all> 3 : to be a care, trouble, or distress to <her ill health concerns me> 4 : engage, occupy <he concerns himself with trivia>

Examples:

quote:

The novel concerns three soldiers.This study concerns the noise levels in cities.This conversation doesn't concern you.Our mother's illness concerns us.

Fear: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fear

quote:

archaic : frighten 2 archaic : to feel fear in (oneself) 3 : to have a reverential awe of <fear God> 4 : to be afraid of : expect with alarm <fear the worst>

Examples:

quote:

He was a cruel king who was feared and hated by his subjects.There's no need to fear

Also, please note: I did not use the term apprehension, which would be closer to fear. Which is exactly why I didn't use it.

quote:

I didn't say additional or created fear. I said no fear at all.

Yet I don't fear Valyraen or him leaving me or the consequences in our relationship. It is exactly because I'm not afraid that I am able to be in a long-term relationship with him. When I am afraid of those I am involved with, I simply cease my relationships with them.

Therefore by your reasoning I have no respect for him or Teddy Roosevelt. To fear these things, he would have to create a dynamic wherein I had to be concerned about that so it would be additional. And... ya know... there would have to be zombies.

Edited cause the copying and pasting went INSANE. >.<

Also to be more clear. I blame the hot sauce in my food for distracting me. DAMN YOU CHILI GARLIC SAUCE!

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 12/10/2010 10:54:26 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to CarpeComa)

Post #: 24

RE: Fear.... outside of the play - 12/10/2010 10:42:51 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CarpeComa

I'm an old user on a new nick. First joined in June of '07.

In that case I find the comment even more surprising to be honest. You were here before they cracked down on the hijackings, when things were at their "worst".

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 12/10/2010 10:43:03 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to CarpeComa)

Post #: 25

RE: Fear.... outside of the play - 12/11/2010 3:20:50 AM

ExSteelAgain

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I view instilling apprehension of punishment measures as gimmicky. If you break it down, you’re saying if you don’t like me (and do those things I want you to do), I’ll punish you. The concept turns into avoidance of the punishment instead of respect of the dominant. When it comes down to physical punishment in a bdsm relationship it is even more tricky trying to distinguish the punishment from the play.

But there is an inherent, uncontrived, omnipresent fear in all relationships…the fear one person has of being rejected by the other. That fear makes the concerned person behave and perform in ways believed to keep the other person happy and to continue the relationship. Should the fear be emphasized? No, but there’s no denying it’s there, real and will affect behavior.

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RE: Fear.... outside of the play - 12/11/2010 4:59:12 AM

heartfeltsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: petmonkey

add: i wasn't on these boards when the mods changed policy, kind of curious what you're referring to--another thread?

The thread in question that Knight was referring to, was the thread i started on asking people who are in a punishment dynamic what they got out of it. It is acceptable to reference another thread and i believe posts on that thread got Knight thinking and he didn't want to hijack the thread that i had started.

heartfelt

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RE: Fear.... outside of the play - 12/11/2010 5:23:20 AM

Buzzzz

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Dread is so much better then fear.. Read the Flagg book and you will understand better.

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RE: Fear.... outside of the play - 12/11/2010 7:12:17 AM

DesFIP

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If your relationship is based on obedience, then fear could motivate you to be obedient. It cannot motivate you to trust, confide or be vulnerable to the person you are afraid of. As my relationship is based on emotional transparency it is destructive to our relationship.

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RE: Fear.... outside of the play - 12/11/2010 7:43:29 AM

kiwisub12

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I cannot live in a fear driven relationship. My first D/s relationship was so nurturing because that is what i needed to be comfortable with him. He reassured me until i believed him, and the D/s didn't suffer because of this - it blossomed. I wasn't worried that if i screwed up he would boot me to the curb, and that gave me the confidence to be me - warts and all.

I had a fear driven child-hood and a fear driven marraige, and won't go there again! I can't live with the apprehension of dirty looks, snarky comments and just generally anxious living, worried about everything. I'm not saying love wasn't involved in either of the afore mentioned relationships, but there was definitely an element of fear that i was very sensitive to.

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Post #: 30

RE: Fear.... outside of the play - 12/11/2010 9:30:43 AM

Kana

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I like fear. It gives me (yet another) thing to play with.

Mwwwwwuuuuaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh

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Post #: 31

RE: Fear.... outside of the play - 12/11/2010 9:35:53 AM

daddysprop247

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while i certainly would not say that my relationship is fear-driven, fear is definitely a necessary and healthy part of our dynamic. the comments of mbes and littlewonder have resonated with me most on this. i do not need fear in order to be obedient (that is kind of my personality), but if i have no fear of a man whatsoever, it would kind of put me on sleep-mode. i'd do whatever was required of me...but there would be no true mindfulness or keeping on my toes. not to mention the fact that my respect for him as a Master (as opposed to respect for him as a great human being or a good man) is closely tied to reverence and fear. this sort of fear stems from not having control over one's own destiny, as well as never knowing quite which way the wind will blow. so yes, the sort of fear one may have for a deity. it's a stark reminder that they have the power, and you do not...that in the big scheme of things you are but a pawn. this is the way i must look upon the man i call Master, or even the man i would call Mate.

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RE: Fear.... outside of the play - 12/11/2010 10:09:50 AM

catize

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quote:

Can fear have a place in your relationship? Can Fear be constructively used within a dynamic.... if it can... how can it? Or is Fear always a destructive quality within a relationship...

What are your thoughts of fear within a relationship?

It could be argued that the reason we go to work daily is based on the fear of losing our job and our income. At a certain level it could be construed as a healthy, realistic fear that gets us up and on our way to work, as long as that stays in the back of our minds. I once was employed at a newly built facility here in town. Admin constantly reminded us that every one was on probation and that they could fire us (and did frequently) any time. Because it was pushed in our faces, it was an unhealthy environment.
A smidgen of fear or anxiety can be a great motivator; gets us to finish that paper for our presentation, meet a deadline, etc. I think it can also be motivation in relationships when it is not an 'in your face' kind of thing. We all know what consequences will occur from our conduct, both good and bad.
If we want to keep someone in our lives we know how to treat them. If we no longer care, we won't be "afraid" to lose them.

< Message edited by catize -- 12/11/2010 11:08:36 AM >

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RE: Fear.... outside of the play - 12/11/2010 11:04:05 AM

MasterFireMaam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Can fear have a place in your relationship? Can Fear be constructively used within a dynamic.... if it can... how can it? Or is Fear always a destructive quality within a relationship...

No, it really can't. We were raised in a family where fear of punishment was the huge motivator. This spilled over into Our spiritual life, too. Thus, We learned to "be good" because We were 1) afraid to get caught and 2) afraid what that meant. Our morals had nothing to do with what was actual right and good. We've worked through a great many of the programs We had obtained as a child and teenager. Some of the results include being of a different religion, developing ethics (good for altruistic reasons) rather than morals (good for religious reasons).

So, having a relationship, as an adult, with fear in it would be a horrible choice on Our part. Our belief system is such that fear, not hate, is the opposite of love because hate is spawned from fear. Basing a relationship on that would be abusive.

All this is different than playing with fear in a scene and is as different as playing with hitting in a scene. To Us, using fear with negative intent is abuse, just as hitting with negative intent is abuse... and We simply can't think of any place outside of a scene where there would be a positive intent behind fear.

Master Fire

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Post #: 34

RE: Fear.... outside of the play - 12/11/2010 1:11:36 PM

RCdc

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When people do not fear, then they have nothing to lose.
Fear is vital.

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RE: Fear.... outside of the play - 12/11/2010 1:46:13 PM

JstAnotherSub

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fast reply

The day fear came into the relationship would be the day I left the relationship. Being with in a relationship has to be better than being alone, for me. I want someone who will shelter me from my fears. Someone I can fall apart in front of and have no fear of their reaction. I want to be able to always express my self, the happy, sad, horny, reflective, all of me, and have no worries about negative reactions.

That doesn't mean I am not willing to accept guidance about how to overcome things, but I went through enough of the fear of reaction shit in my marriage. I just can never go down that road again.

Typing that, I just realized what a long time it has been since I did let me "fall apart" and lay my self out completely in front of someone. Man, when I do it again, it is gonna take one strong sumbish to handle it.

Ha! I may be facing a long time alone-lolol.

Things to ponder on.

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RE: Fear.... outside of the play - 12/11/2010 3:37:18 PM

LadyHibiscus

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The person who is serving me cannot fear ME, because that means they do not trust me. They might fear displeasing me, or that our relationship might end or reconfigure, but that's another thing entirely.

I refuse to live fearfully, and I will not inflict that on those around me.

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RE: Fear.... outside of the play - 12/11/2010 3:45:44 PM

RCdc

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This is RC

A total lack of fear leads to complacency. I love my girl too much to not fear.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Post #: 38

RE: Fear.... outside of the play - 12/11/2010 5:50:42 PM

LadyHibiscus

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What is it that you fear, Darcy? I think that even the most secure of us "fears" that the Other will leave. That kind of thing is not the fear that many of us are talking about.

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RE: Fear.... outside of the play - 12/12/2010 8:38:37 AM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

The punishment thread had me consider the aspect of fear within a relationship dynamic. It seems to me that it is commonly thought that Fear is destructive to a relationship. But... I wonder....

Can fear have a place in your relationship? Can Fear be constructively used within a dynamic.... if it can... how can it? Or is Fear always a destructive quality within a relationship...

What are your thoughts of fear within a relationship?

In my own relationship there's an amount of *fear*. I don't have one iota of fear of HIM, but I have a healthy fear of what he's capable of.

It's not at all destructive. It's easy to live with and bringsnothing untoward.

I expect it depends on the person... there are lots of things I might fear that would be awfully destructive, and some that bring me a lot of good. I have only *good* ones in my relationship.

agirl

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 40

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