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RE: Disappearing Edit Button: Hate it! - 10/22/2010 8:31:17 AM   
DarklySubtle


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Wow! I started this thread, left it for a day and came back to find that I'd caused quite a stir!

First, let me say that I didn't come here to advocate changing posts to make it appear that one didn't say something that people are now taking issue with. Edit button or not, I own what I've written. If someone disagrees with me, I'll explain myself, defend my position, or apologize as I feel it's necessary. If I ever felt that I'd written something truly untenable or offensive, I might take a post down, but I'd say clearly that I'd done so and probably give a reason.

The way that people on other boards guard against that sort of flame war, "he said, she said" scenario is simply by using the "Quote in Reply" button when writing responses. After all, someone else cannot edit your post... even if part of it is a direct quote of theirs. Thus, the squirrelly own-post deniers out there are easily exposed, their original words fixed in stark contradiction to their pusillaninmous evasion.

Alright, I'm being playful, but the point is still valid: I've been on other boards for years and can remember few if any examples of threads that have become hopelessly confused because of deliberately deceptive edits, if only because those are so easy to spot and call out. Trolls usually prefer to work their mischief by means of disingenuous arguments and logical fallacies.

Leaving aside the potential sowers of Chaos, then, we come to those of us who simply want more Control. :) Honestly, am I really the only one who finds it dismaying that things that should be simple to fix cannot be, just because I didn't spot them right away? I go back to older posts on other sites alot, and quite commonly find typos, or things that could be said more clearly or more elegantly, and fix them. And I am NOT careless about spelling, grammar, or very much else when it comes to writing. I'm just human, with limited time and an all too human tendency to make mistakes.

More power to those of you who are comfortable with posting once and letting it all hang out, so to speak, but I stand by my opinion. I'd much rather have the ability to go back and make something better when I can see a way to do so.

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RE: Disappearing Edit Button: Hate it! - 10/22/2010 8:38:21 AM   
LadyPact


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No stir.  Just opinions.  You don't really expect everyone to agree with you all of the time, do you?  

Actually, you can change other people's comments once you have quoted them.  If it's become part of your post, you can edit anything within that post.  It allows people to trim the original they were quoting to address specific points.  The drawback to it is that it also allows for the changing of the words contained within the quote.




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RE: Disappearing Edit Button: Hate it! - 10/22/2010 8:41:14 AM   
stef


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No.  Have a nice day.

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RE: Disappearing Edit Button: Hate it! - 10/22/2010 8:42:43 AM   
Lucylastic


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As an aside, welcome to the board, I hope you enjoy yourself,
To agree with Lady Pact, a "stir" is five pages in one day, but.... to be sure, you got opinions:)



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RE: Disappearing Edit Button: Hate it! - 10/22/2010 8:49:49 AM   
BonesFromAsh


Posts: 1362
Joined: 6/17/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarklySubtle

Wow! I started this thread, left it for a day and came back to find that I'd caused quite a stir!

First, let me say that I didn't come here to advocate changing posts to make it appear that one didn't say something that people are now taking issue with. Edit button or not, I own what I've written. Then you would be the exception. There've been more than a few times that I've quoted something posted only to find that person has gone back and edited out what I quoted. Kind of funny, actually. If someone disagrees with me, I'll explain myself, defend my position, or apologize as I feel it's necessary. If I ever felt that I'd written something truly untenable or offensive, I might take a post down, but I'd say clearly that I'd done so and probably give a reason.

The way that people on other boards guard against that sort of flame war, "he said, she said" scenario is simply by using the "Quote in Reply" button when writing responses. Unless someone uses fast reply at the bottom of the screen and doesn't bother to clarify who the post is targeted at. After all, someone else cannot edit your post... even if part of it is a direct quote of theirs. Thus, the squirrelly own-post deniers out there are easily exposed, their original words fixed in stark contradiction to their pusillaninmous evasion.

Alright, I'm being playful, but the point is still valid: I've been on other boards for years and can remember few if any examples of threads that have become hopelessly confused because of deliberately deceptive edits, if only because those are so easy to spot and call out. Trolls usually prefer to work their mischief by means of disingenuous arguments and logical fallacies.

Leaving aside the potential sowers of Chaos, then, we come to those of us who simply want more Control. :) Honestly, am I really the only one who finds it dismaying that things that should be simple to fix cannot be, just because I didn't spot them right away? It always helps to take a moment and preview before you post. Yes, it may take longer but in the end it saves you from typo hell. I go back to older posts on other sites alot, and quite commonly find typos, or things that could be said more clearly or more elegantly, and fix them. And I am NOT careless about spelling, grammar, or very much else when it comes to writing. I'm just human, with limited time and an all too human tendency to make mistakes. Well, welcome to the rest of the human race...a race of imperfection. Like I said, if it really matters, take the time to preview before hitting the "post reply" button. Easy peasy.

More power to those of you who are comfortable with posting once and letting it all hang out, so to speak, but I stand by my opinion. I'd much rather have the ability to go back and make something better when I can see a way to do so. Well, you have a set period of time already to edit. I personally think sometimes people are in such a rush to get their words on the screen immediately...with not a second to spare. Funny thing is, the thread will still be there 10 minutes later, usually.


*edited just because

< Message edited by BonesFromAsh -- 10/22/2010 8:51:47 AM >

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RE: Disappearing Edit Button: Hate it! - 10/22/2010 9:07:45 AM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
No stir.  Just opinions.  You don't really expect everyone to agree with you all of the time, do you?  


I think he expected at least one person to agree.

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RE: Disappearing Edit Button: Hate it! - 10/22/2010 9:53:50 AM   
WyldHrt


Posts: 6412
Joined: 6/5/2008
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quote:

Actually, you can change other people's comments once you have quoted them.  If it's become part of your post, you can edit anything within that post.  It allows people to trim the original they were quoting to address specific points.  The drawback to it is that it also allows for the changing of the words contained within the quote.

Just as a heads up, the mods tend to frown on that sort of thing. I jokingly reworded someone's quote once, and my post went *poof*. A gold note in my cmail explained why.


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RE: Disappearing Edit Button: Hate it! - 10/22/2010 10:10:06 AM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarklySubtle

I go back to older posts on other sites alot, and quite commonly find typos, or things that could be said more clearly or more elegantly, and fix them. And I am NOT careless about spelling, grammar, or very much else when it comes to writing. I'm just human, with limited time and an all too human tendency to make mistakes.

More power to those of you who are comfortable with posting once and letting it all hang out, so to speak, but I stand by my opinion. I'd much rather have the ability to go back and make something better when I can see a way to do so.


When you change what you wrote, it CAN have an effect on people's responses, even if it is a minor change. People following the convo in realtime won't even see your changes, and people coming along later will wonder how all the respondents could be so stupid as to not read the OP the way it was written.

Besides, while you may be honorable and not wipe out your OP or other posts, not everyone is that way. Not everyone's OP gets quoted, as we've seen on other sites where the person gets mad at the responses and completely wipes out their original post.

Cali


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RE: Disappearing Edit Button: Hate it! - 10/22/2010 10:15:26 AM   
DarklySubtle


Posts: 36
Joined: 7/19/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

As an aside, welcome to the board, I hope you enjoy yourself,
To agree with Lady Pact, a "stir" is five pages in one day, but.... to be sure, you got opinions:)


Thank you for the welcome. Also thanks to you and Lady Pact for setting me straight on the house definition of a stir. I won't even ask what constitutes a brouhaha in here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Actually, you can change other people's comments once you have quoted them.
You are of course correct that this could be done, Lady Pact. I would have said that it would be so rare as to not be worth worrying about, but then again we live in an age where far too many are convinced that their philosophical opponents stand ready to drag the world down to ruin, given the slightest chance.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh
 Then you would be the exception. There've been more than a few times that I've quoted something posted only to find that person has gone back and edited out what I quoted. Kind of funny, actually.
That is disheartening, Bones From Ash, if those people were really trying to pretend that they hadn't said something.


quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh Well, welcome to the rest of the human race...a race of imperfection. Like I said, if it really matters, take the time to preview before hitting the "post reply" button. Easy peasy.
Ok, but things just aren't that neat. Yes, it does matter. Yes, I DO take the time to preview my posts. And yes, even after great care and multiple edits, I sometimes STILL find mistakes, or at least things that I'd like to change. And it's just damn frustrating to find my ability to fix them so abruptly cut off.

I guess it boils down to history and temperment. I'm used to being able to go back and polish a piece of writing online when I see that it needs it. And I've always thought that, given the pitfalls of publishing more or less in real time, it was essential to have the ability to go back later and refine or correct things.

But perhaps there is history here that I'm unaware of, or issues that I'm insensitive to. It wouldn't be the first time...

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RE: Disappearing Edit Button: Hate it! - 10/22/2010 11:20:48 AM   
BonesFromAsh


Posts: 1362
Joined: 6/17/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarklySubtle

quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh
 Then you would be the exception. There've been more than a few times that I've quoted something posted only to find that person has gone back and edited out what I quoted. Kind of funny, actually.
That is disheartening, Bones From Ash, if those people were really trying to pretend that they hadn't said something.


It's only disheartening if you let it get to you. Water off a duck's back...let it roll.
quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh Well, welcome to the rest of the human race...a race of imperfection. Like I said, if it really matters, take the time to preview before hitting the "post reply" button. Easy peasy.
Ok, but things just aren't that neat. Yes, it does matter. Yes, I DO take the time to preview my posts. And yes, even after great care and multiple edits, I sometimes STILL find mistakes, or at least things that I'd like to change. And it's just damn frustrating to find my ability to fix them so abruptly cut off.

Please don't take this as me being pissy...I'm really not (trust me, you'll know when I am)....
This is a message board, not a college disertation. You're not being graded and for the most part, people generally have no problem when someone comes back to clarify a statement they made. Take it from a self-admitted anal retentive perfectionist...sometimes you just have to accept your mistakes and move on.

Water off a duck's back...let it roll.

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RE: Disappearing Edit Button: Hate it! - 10/22/2010 8:58:19 PM   
DarklySubtle


Posts: 36
Joined: 7/19/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh


Please don't take this as me being pissy...I'm really not (trust me, you'll know when I am).... I do not find your comments to be other than gracious and insightful.
This is a message board, not a college disertation. You're not being graded and for the most part, people generally have no problem when someone comes back to clarify a statement they made. I don't entirely agree with the "not being graded" part. People in here definitely notice things like spelling, grammar, and general writing ability. Take it from a self-admitted anal retentive perfectionist...sometimes you just have to accept your mistakes and move on. I stand squarely among the ranks of anal retentive perfectionists, myself, at least where writing is concerned. Perhaps you've noticed.


Water off a duck's back...let it roll. Oh, well. Waterproof feathers or not, I know; to use an expression older than both of us; when I'm licked.


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